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Old 04-06-2007, 03:59 AM   #51
Gernot Hassenpflug
Dojo: Aunkai, Tokyo
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 319
Re: Weight-training and Ki/Kokyu

Kevin, I don't think anyone in the group of Mike, Dan, Rob and others who are training a specific skillset and change of body, has said anything about this being contrary to very basic science. The fact is, that bodies change through this practice, and the results, in terms of what is possible as a side-effect of the body change, is counter-intuitive. Western sports medicine has much evidence of how bodies change according to the excerice regime followed. Ballet pratice changes round leg cross-section into oval cross-section and allows practitioners to perform interesting and stunning displays that appear effortless on the outside, but require steel on the inside. Then, the practice of which is being spoken here, this too makes some serious changes to the body, many of them invisible on the mere surface muscles. If you want to get such changes, there is a certain way that needs to be followed to achieve it, whereas other methods do other things to the body. That's pretty much the logic of it, the other part is explaining the various levels of goals of the various levels of such practice.
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Old 04-06-2007, 09:16 AM   #52
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
Re: Aikido, Weight Lifting & Flexibility

Kevin Wilbanks wrote: View Post
Find me one credentialled authority that is willing to claim that doing a few basic resistance training exercise sessions for 20-30 minutes two or three times per week will interefere with the performance of any kind of movement skill whatsoever, other than movements extremely similar to the resistance exercises themselves, and sign his or her name to the statement.
See, the problem is... and other people have pointed it out specifically... that you simply haven't read what was written and you've made a complex and emotional strawman argument. Let me phrase it another way using weights as an example:

Let's say you want to learn to lift weights in a new and unique method of using the body, one which changes the way force-directions are generated by the body and also a way which develops some of the fascia and myofascial layers so that they in effect become a body-global type of "weight-lifter's belt". The movement system is unique also because the middle of the body has to be trained to manipulate the force directions without letting the shoulder muscles initiate forces (that would disrupt the forces you're trying to generate). And the big criterion on top of that is that you want this to become your new, instinctive way of moving.

So you start off moving with no weights, but only with the efforts to coordinate this new form of movement. You pretty much lose your ability and power in some things while you're re-coordinating this, but it's worth it (although you can of course do it in half-measures and wind up with a lesser final product) to re-pattern your movements.

What you're suggesting (and which I'm speaking against) is that several time a week you should break your re-patterning attempts and simply go back to the old way of movement. My comment was that it was counter-productive to do that. Your "muscle memory" stuff was your own schtick and it misses the point.

Mike Sigman
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Old 04-10-2007, 02:25 AM   #53
Tijani1150's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 69
Re: Weight-training and Ki/Kokyu

Greetings All

It seems to me that no one can realy define and clarify what this internal power/ki realy is nor be able to present at least a basic program of semi spiritual excercises that would bring results to the seeker after a specific length of time, so there is a gap/thirst that is not being filled therefore people are resorting to alternatives which is weight lifting/external power in this case

Last edited by Tijani1150 : 04-10-2007 at 02:28 AM.
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