Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Announcements & Feedback

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2007, 01:19 PM   #26
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
[snip part that is personal attack, again]
Mike, in regard to my comment about the Ki Society, OK..... let me rephrase it so it sounds better to you: "Guys, uh, you're doing great. I can't see any room for improvement, so I'm not going to make any challenging statements for fear that they may be misconstrued as attacks on your self-esteem".

P.S. If any of you are interested, I'll be glad to show you what I'm taling about and I made my statement based on my experience of 46 years in martial arts.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 01:39 PM   #27
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
What I read in Dennis's initial post above has less to do with the subject matter but the overall tone which he has seemingly perceived in recent discussions. As I have written and requested, time and time and time again, the first rule of AikiWeb is to treat others with respect. If I can be so honest, I find it surprising if not frustrating that such a request be a seemingly difficult one to subscribe to, as this community is one that is based in budo -- a pursuit which, in my mind, must be rooted in etiquette and respect.
Jun, let me toss in a couple of thoughts here... and I mean them also as a response to John Riggs' good comments.

The subject that is raising a lot of ruckus... the ki/kokyu stuff... is one that is never going to be discussed on this forum or the forum of any other martial-art, qigong, yoga, tea-ceremony, calligraphy, traditional Asian dance, etc., website without causing a furor. To expect it to be totally civil borders on being absurd.

Why? Because the inference is that some established teachers don't really know what they're talking about, in the sense that their art is in actuality based on those same ki-kokyu skills. Note the other "arts" I just listed above. If someone went on one of their forums and said something about these ki skills and most of the teachers didn't understand it, the *same thing would happen*.

If the occasional lack of civility is surprising to *some* people (and remember, only a few are trying to take this tack about diplomacy... many others are just into the conversation to discuss, get information, etc.), then I've got to say that I'm surprised at how civil it is. It could be a lot worse. Toss out the few bad apples who are here only to complain and make personal remarks and there is not really that much friction. And some of the friction is helpful in the discussion.

Think about the magnitude of the subject. Hiroshi Ikeda thinks the subject is so important that he, in contradiction to a lot of Japanese martial tradition, brought in a karate teacher to teach these exact same subjects. That's how important he thought it was. It was recognizably so important, that Saotome Sensei understood and allowed his student to do such a thing. Those 2 facts alone should be enough, but if you look at Tohei's emphasis, Abe Sensei's emphasis, etc., this becomes obviously a hugely significant discussion. So significant that all the expert teachers should have been able to jump in and intelligently discuss the topic with any "outsiders". But they couldn't... or few could (offline, there are indeed some Aikido teachers who have some of these skills, BTW, so my implication is not about 'ALL' of Aikido). What we're seeing with the negative reactions is mainly defensive maneuvering, which is to be expected in a topic of this magnitude.

Even though I disagree with Erick Mead (it's more than that; my experience/knowledge tells me that I'm as safe in my position as a Christian holding 4 aces), I have to give him credit for debating hammer and tongs what he believes to be true. Now he just needs to get out and trade his opinions in a hands-on way.... as do many others. It's not going to be easy and it's not always going to be polite, given the import and ramifications of the 'new' knowledge (you know, the stuff that was in all the books from day one but we thought it was about ritual crap and woo woo stuff). But "treat others with respect"? I think everyone would like for it to be an easy diplomatic discussion, but the implication that some teachers may not know something basic is inherent in the conversation, and assuredly they are going to react like they are not being treated with respect.

I honestly think this is a far more civil conversation, on the whole, than we have a right to expect, given the implications. I'm impressed, not disappointed.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 01:50 PM   #28
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,991
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Hi Mike, everyone else,

I am not here in this thread to talk about specific people or topics. I believe what I am asking for applies regardless of the people involved or the subject covered.

Once again (copying and pasting since I don't have too much time here at my day job), let's conduct ourselves in a manner which cultivates responsibility, respect, and community.

Thanks,

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 01:50 PM   #29
Ellis Amdur
 
Ellis Amdur's Avatar
Location: Seattle
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 891
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

There are people posting on Aikiweb whom I cannot abide. I don't like what they say, I don't like how they say it, and I don't like who they are - at least as they portray themselves on the web. They make my flesh crawl, my guts churn and not even beneficent thoughts of aikido and harmony can pull me through. Instead, I imagine them locked in a nikkyo, screaming to Mike or Dan for those internal skills to ward off the damage, but it's too late, too late - I just laugh and crank it on harder.
But if they post on a thread that I am personally interested, I will, God help me, read them and get irritated. It is like Plato's dialogue which describes a man passing an execution ground, determined not to look because he's better than "that," and then suddenly screaming at his own eyes, "Dammit, look if it's so important!"
But this is not necessary on Aikiweb! I have an ignore list which grows evermore each week or so. I know that so-and-so posted, but I never have to have his or her comments put my knickers in a twist, because I simply never see what would disturb me. Or as PeeWee Herman said with his fingers in his ears, "LALLALLLALLLALLAAA"

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 01:55 PM   #30
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

OK... John Riggs... please take my post #27 as addressed to you.

Best.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 02:01 PM   #31
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Having participated in this thread and discussion. I will be the first to defend the right of those that are posting here. I do not agree with the name calling and personal attacks. However, I find them few and far in between. If someone does it to me and I don't like it, I will tell them. (So you will always know where you stand with me! )

This topic I think is very important in a way. I think overall it is a healthy discussion. Many of us grow frustrated occassionally and impatient.

I appreciate the candor of most everyone here on the thread. Yes, it crosses the line occassionally, but I think a simple "time out" can put it back into place!

I have to admit, that I am growing tired of this thread some though as it is getting old and in many cases going no where, but I am a big boy and can simply NOT participate and not read it if I choose.

I don't think many of these guys understand budo or aikido...that is my opinion. I think some of them probably know a few things that I would benefit from though, so I am open to them.

I applaud guys like George Ledyard, Dennis Hooker, Jimmy Sorentino who have opened up there minds, faced the challenges, and even let guys like Rob and Mike into there dojos! It says alot about them and their committment to art and establishing a true learning environment.

If we are going to evolve and grow, we need to open up a little. It is scary at times, and it will get emotional and heated. I think this to be good though, once the smoke clears we will understand things a little better.

I'd really hate to see Dennis go. Frankly I have thought about it myself over the last few days as this gets frustrating and you begin to wonder what is going on with people...have they lost their senses!!! There are better things to do with my time!

However, guys like Dennis keep me here, so I hope he will stay.

More importantly though, I hope that Jun will continue to moderate or not moderate in the manner he has in the past...it is more important than if Dennis chooses to not participate.

That said, we do all need to keep in mind, that if it continues to degrade, people will lose interest and go elsewhere and then Aikiweb will degenerate to nothing.

Thanks for all you do Jun.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 02:30 PM   #32
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Thank you Jun. You said a lot of what I was attempting to convey. Perhaps simply asking onself while writing a post whether you can frame the question or the topic in a manner to generate constructive discussion might help. Negative questions tend to generate defensive or negative feedback. "What's wrong with ----aspect of aikido". As you so aptly pointed out, the how does or how can I do type questions typically generates more constructive responses.

I too am amazed that we can generate the "How can you be so stupid" questions as well. This is in my opinion devolved, provocative behavior that suggests a very ego-centric, condescending perspective. If you just want to argue, join a debate club. If you want to help others evolve their art, then try to be constructive not destructive with commentary.

I too have engaged in a few verbal "discussions", but usually because the person was being downright rude and obnoxious. I tend to avoid those now since they did little to change the person's attitude.

Respect and etiquette should follow you everywhere you go if you are truly trying to learn something from the arts. If the person is really a problem, I think there used to be a block function on this site. I have used it in the past by blocking someone whom I felt was not interested in conveying anything worthwhile or who was a warrior troll.

THere are communication styles that tend to negate everything. I think they are called mismatchers by some. What ever you say they have to go against it. I guess they just can't help it.

I don't think anyone wants to squelch legitimate honest debate. However, I do think that with a little effort we can all elevate our communications style to an "aiki" level and choose our words/sentences with less offensive flair and discuss things in a positive manner.

One of my former students had a girl friend that he was always fighting with over pretty much everything. They came to me, I'm not sure why, to ask for help in trying to get their relationship to a less contentious level. After a lengthy discussion we discovered that her family expressed their love for each other by yelling, shouting, screaming and arguing. His family, however, expressed their love in a more calm fashion. She view her contentious nature as being a sign of affection. He on the other hand was seriously stressed out by the constant bickering and fighting over everything. The ultimate outcome was that this did not have a good chance of changing much so they agreed to stop the relationship since it was not making either of them very happy. Many different styles come to the table, however, etiquette and respect should be maintained off the mat as well. IMHO

Last edited by aikidoc : 03-08-2007 at 02:39 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 02:43 PM   #33
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
OK... John Riggs... please take my post #27 as addressed to you.

Best.

Mike
?Post 27 where? Which thread?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 02:57 PM   #34
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Mike, nevermind. I found the reference.

I agree with most of what you said. It could have been worse. However, for a while the thread got so contentious back and forth that when I had to read two or three pages before it got back on topic it sort of lost its value. Perhaps that's just me. I'm not interested in reading all the you don't know what the hell you are talking about posts, especially when they go on and on and generally repeat the same stuff several times.

Oh well, it's just me. I guess I'm getting less tolerant of bs as I get older.

For what it's worth. My sensei is teaching one of his students who also does MMA to be able to use aikido to defend himself. It's important stuff since he is competing in Japan. In fact at a recent seminar, they has some activity going on while he was demonstrating that was subtle. The student was trying to reverse or trip up the shihan at every opportunity. Sensei's approach to his study of aikido from what I have learned was to not seek out other arts for make him better but to learn out how to make his aikido work by training with other high level martial artists. Apparently, he did since he is rumored to have been the one to "educate" or deal with difficult people or dojo busters.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 03:38 PM   #35
DarkShodan
Dojo: Shuurin Dojo - Omaha, Nebarska
Location: Omaha
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 158
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

My dad can beat up your dad!

Victims, aren't we all.
-- Eric Draven
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 03:42 PM   #36
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Quote:
John Riggs wrote: View Post
I agree with most of what you said. It could have been worse. However, for a while the thread got so contentious back and forth that when I had to read two or three pages before it got back on topic it sort of lost its value.
Well, I expect a certain amount of contention, particularly in contentious topics. As I said, given the involvement of some of the shihans, in groundbreaking and non-traditional ways, there are plenty of clues that this goes outside of discussing the proper way of folding a hakama.

Also, there are different personalities on the forum. To expect everyone to conform to a norm determined by some few, as to what is proper, can lead to problems. Mainly, I feel that Ellis hit it right on the head. The people who tend to express their displeasures seem to not understand that there are some blunt-but-polite people who don't get into voicing personal comments quite as much as some of the "polite" ones do. It's a two-way street. The best strategy may be to stick to the issue and debate it. On the other hand, I think one of the problems is that some people cannot really join in the debate, so they switch to arguing their side by discussing personality, posting-style, etc.

The biggest clue is often to go back over someone's post and see if they have posted a reasonable percentage of truly useful posts, how-to's, etc. That's the standard I've used for many years. And I flat out don't like the personality of some of the people who honestly post useful information.... but who cares? This ain't no ^$#*@ weinie roast!!!

Best.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 04:41 PM   #37
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 557
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Mike, in regard to my comment about the Ki Society, OK..... let me rephrase it so it sounds better to you: "Guys, uh, you're doing great. I can't see any room for improvement, so I'm not going to make any challenging statements for fear that they may be misconstrued as attacks on your self-esteem".

P.S. If any of you are interested, I'll be glad to show you what I'm taling about and I made my statement based on my experience of 46 years in martial arts.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
My self-esteem is doing just fine, I am not a member of the Ki Society and I picked one isolated example I could find off of the top of my head. I am quite ready to apologise to you publicly and unreservedly should I feel it is merited. My 20 years of martial arts experience seems to be telling that your 46 years hasn't been long enough to learn not to be condescending and sarcastic.

I met a man last weekend who has decades of Iaido experience, when he discovered that I did aikido he politely asked me to show him some and I offered some of what I knew. I greatly enjoyed learning everything he was offering to teach me, politely and humbly. I don't get the impression based on what you have said here on these forums ad nauseam that a similar thing would happen were we to meet in person.

As I said before I find your comments well informed, as are others here, I find them interesting and all too often I find them condescending.

As Jun said: "However again, I will say that I sometimes wish that there were more discussions to the effect of "How does aikido [insert something that may or may not be in aikido here]?" rather than "Why doesn't aikido [insert something that someone considers isn't in aikido here]?" They're both valid questions, of course, but the tone and seeming intent behind the latter may be taken as undermining"

I have no problem with much of what you say, I find it interesting and informative, just how you say it a lot of the time is what I dislike. But then I suppose that those sort of things are what we all need to work on, especially on an internet forum.

Mike

PS - I would very much like to see what you are talking about, and if you are ever in the UK please make sure I know about it beforehand so I can come and play. I've no doubt it will be informative.

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 04:45 PM   #38
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,019
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Why can't all "internal practices" threads just be posted in the Open Discussion forum? After all, that's where all of the controversial and not-directly-Aikido-related stuff goes, and it's where the big, ugly arguments and tempests in teapots happily steam, far away from the main Aikido discussions. Only people who want to read about non-Aikido topics go to that forum.

If we didn't have the Open Discussions forum, where else could Mike Sigman and Neil Mick go to have their political and idealogical Matter/Anti-matter slapfests? What better place for the "Outsiders" (MMA, CMA, internal arts practioners, et al.) to also talk about their mysterious, exotic ideas?

So, if Jun doesn't start an Internal Practices forum or something like that, I'd suggest that all topics not directly related to Aikido -as it is currently widely practiced- be directed to Open Discussions, where anything goes, and even Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum could spat over their ruint new rattle to their hearts' content.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 05:00 PM   #39
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
My 20 years of martial arts experience seems to be telling that your 46 years hasn't been long enough to learn not to be condescending and sarcastic.
Go back and read Ellis' post again, Mike. This is how many posts that are focused on the personal?
Quote:
I met a man last weekend who has decades of Iaido experience, when he discovered that I did aikido he politely asked me to show him some and I offered some of what I knew. I greatly enjoyed learning everything he was offering to teach me, politely and humbly. I don't get the impression based on what you have said here on these forums ad nauseam that a similar thing would happen were we to meet in person.
Somehow Mike, I have the same feeling. One of the weird things I've noted over the years is that real martial artists tend to just get along fine; others not so fine. C'est la vie. But nice continuation of your thesis on me.
Quote:
As I said before I find your comments well informed, as are others here, I find them interesting and all too often I find them condescending.
Go back and read Ellis' post, Mike.
Quote:
I have no problem with much of what you say, I find it interesting and informative, just how you say it a lot of the time is what I dislike. But then I suppose that those sort of things are what we all need to work on, especially on an internet forum.
Read Ellis' post one more time. And see if you can somehow drag your mind over to the topic of "Baseline Skillset", although I'm sure you don't like people who suggest such things and probably you think it's condescending.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 05:03 PM   #40
Hogan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads



You're all bitches...
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 05:52 PM   #41
gdandscompserv
 
gdandscompserv's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,214
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Why can't all "internal practices" threads just be posted in the Open Discussion forum? After all, that's where all of the controversial and not-directly-Aikido-related stuff goes, and it's where the big, ugly arguments and tempests in teapots happily steam, far away from the main Aikido discussions. Only people who want to read about non-Aikido topics go to that forum.

If we didn't have the Open Discussions forum, where else could Mike Sigman and Neil Mick go to have their political and idealogical Matter/Anti-matter slapfests? What better place for the "Outsiders" (MMA, CMA, internal arts practioners, et al.) to also talk about their mysterious, exotic ideas?

So, if Jun doesn't start an Internal Practices forum or something like that, I'd suggest that all topics not directly related to Aikido -as it is currently widely practiced- be directed to Open Discussions, where anything goes, and even Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum could spat over their ruint new rattle to their hearts' content.
Cady,
Thank you for an enlightening and humorous post. I know I needed it.

I couldn't agree more about the Open Discussions idea. It is grand in it's simplicity. That is where my snide/sarcastic or otherwise insulting posts are banished to anyway. Hell, I've even had my lame attempts at humor moved from the Humor section to the Open Discussions section.
I think I am gonna do a couple things though;
Be nicer.
Talk less and train more.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 06:40 PM   #42
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 557
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Go back and read Ellis' post again, Mike. This is how many posts that are focused on the personal?
SNIP CONDESCENSION
although I'm sure you don't like people who suggest such things and probably you think it's condescending.
If you're referring to Ellis' post in this thread, I've read it. It says he likes what you say etc.. Aren't you basically saying that I should listen to you cos Ellis Amdur likes what you have to say? Or are you referring to a different thread? No disrespect to Ellis but I don't find everything he writes compelling enough to base my entire view of budo on the writings of Ellis Amdur, as well written and informed as they are.

Actually, it is condescending when you come to an aikido forum, an art you do not (appear to) favour and come here solely to discuss how we need more internal skills, my internal skills are coming along just fine thank you, as is my training against resisting partners and 'aliveness' in practice (which I think is totally over rated btw). If this isn't what you and others have been saying then I apologise but your output is quite prolific and I have other things to do than read it all.

In my small amount of time as a teacher I have seen many people come and go. Without doubt the ones I dislike the most are those who come to my lessons, knowing little of me, my character, my experience etc and come to teach and not to learn. They walk into the dojo with a 'critical eye', this at least is uderstandable if you have come as a spectator or guest, but when they decide to train and continue to appear on a regular basis they are often the ones who hide behind the formal etiquette the most, the ones who call me sensei louder and more often than others, who bow to me too much and wear their humility like a badly fitting mask. They reserve their skepticism because they know it is impolite and instead of testing me the teacher they make life difficult for my students, seeking to prove something to their ego by stopping my students learning. I would prefer it if they simply challenged me outright to prove myself.

Far far too much of what has been appearing on aikiweb in recent years reminds me of such people. People who correct the students rather than challenge the teacher, people who wear humility like a badly fitting mask, insisting that they really aren't so uncouth as to do anything so impolite even though they are doing it anyway for everyone to see.

Have you come to aikiweb to learn or to teach us about aikido? I have not come to your dojo or forum to correct you on what you spend most of your time doing. Have I?

Challenging assumptions and discussing difficult topics is fine, better than fine, it is a good thing. It's mostly about how you choose to do it.

Sincerely

Mike Haft

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 06:48 PM   #43
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
If you're referring to Ellis' post in this thread, I've read it.
It says if you don't like reading somebody, don't read them.

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 06:54 PM   #44
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 557
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
It says if you don't like reading somebody, don't read them.

Mike Sigman
And yet you feel the need to reply to my posts....

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 06:56 PM   #45
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

"Also, there are different personalities on the forum. To expect everyone to conform to a norm determined by some few, as to what is proper, can lead to problems."

I'm not expecting norm conformity. Different personalities is not an excuse for rude behavior or bad etiquette.

"The best strategy may be to stick to the issue and debate it."

Agreed.

"On the other hand, I think one of the problems is that some people cannot really join in the debate, so they switch to arguing their side by discussing personality, posting-style, etc."

Possible, but there are some who don't feel like they can join the debate but want to learn who are turned off by the "personality or posting style".
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 07:39 PM   #46
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Quote:
John Riggs wrote: View Post
"Possible, but there are some who don't feel like they can join the debate but want to learn who are turned off by the "personality or posting style".
And on the other hand there are people who feel just the opposite, John? What has that got to do with the debate of an issue? Notice for instance that I've never made the slightest inference about how you strike me personally, your posting style, etc. If you wanted to start a discussion of personal things you don't like, it's possible I'd pull your chain a little bit, but generally I read for content. It's just not that big of a deal to worry about someone's posting style.

I read a comment about someone's posting style in here a few months ago and I went back and read what they'd said. I realized it was maybe too blunt, if that's what someone was focusing on, but I missed it completely the first time I read it because I only read for information. People who don't have any information don't get much attention..... and I've found that more people get offended because they're not getting "respected" for who they think they are than for anything else. The way around it.... debate the issues. Meet up with people. Don't read too much into someone's "posting style".

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 07:59 PM   #47
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

By posting style, I was meaning more of the rude behavior, bad etiquette, personality attack type posters. I don't have a problem with someone being direct as long as they are not being an a$$ or waging personal attacks. It's simply not necessary. So if that is a style issue, then I guess I have a problem with it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2007, 09:56 PM   #48
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Too much involvement... not so good for mental health.

Aikiweb, for chill out and relax. No think too much. Enjoy life more. Ossu!

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2007, 07:25 AM   #49
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,886
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

Sorry to see yet another voice leave due to ignorance and arrogance in tone. Yet, I must respect their choice, and perhaps wisdom, to exit. I was once told to never get in a pissing match with a skunk. Good advice.

I think it is a good reminder to all of us that choose to be here, to participate and contribute, to practice keeping our own center and balance (by not taking others too seriously or too personally despite their tone) and to treat others in a way that will invite and welcome them to continual training in conversation and discussion. Most people here do conduct themselves with openness and respect. Compliments and appreciation to the majority.

So lets see who can, and can't, practice what is being discussed here, control of tone. I'll just pay heed to my own training and practice.

Again, sorry to hear about the lose to so many due to the tone of so few.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2007, 09:08 AM   #50
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: Subject/Tone of Threads

I hate people; I really do! - I believe they are the root cause of all the problems the World faces today. My favorite pastime is sitting on my boat in a quite anchorage away from everyone on the Chesapeake bay, sucking down a cold-one, and just listening to the fish procreate.

However, I love myself. Unfortunately, I am 'people' too - so, I guess I really have to love people as well. But, I can still hate what some of them say or do. For those with things to say that I can relate to, we interact - for those others, I just think of fish…..

Regards

Greg Steckel

PS - I have had the opportunity to train with Dennis Hooker (and a good number of his students) during the last two Aikido cruises - an exemplary group of 'people' that made the training sessions fun and informative. So Dennis, grab a couple cold ones, chill, and just come back with some brilliant post that will keep us all saying: "Oh, I understand that now!"
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Filtering/ignore buttons on threads? Gernot Hassenpflug Announcements & Feedback 10 08-06-2006 11:52 PM
Verständnisprobleme bei engl. Threads Dirk Hanss German 17 11-29-2005 05:16 PM
I can't view some of the threads Kat.C Announcements & Feedback 10 08-22-2002 06:30 PM
Active Forum Threads.... Hogan Announcements & Feedback 2 07-30-2002 10:22 AM
Active Forum Threads akiy Announcements & Feedback 8 06-14-2001 06:58 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:22 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate