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Old 10-10-2001, 02:00 AM   #1
nikonl
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Ai symbol Aikido Phrases

Hi everyone, I'm a frequent chatter in irc and there would always be a quit msg(those who go would know what i mean).

Anyway, i would like to ask everyone, what is your favourite Aikido phrase/slogan. Hopefully its in a sentence or 2.Not too long.

Thanx!

(In case you still don't get it,i am looking for a nice quit msg)
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Old 10-12-2001, 11:48 PM   #2
nikonl
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Ai symbol

no one??
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Old 10-12-2001, 11:58 PM   #3
shihonage
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"No." - O'Sensei.
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Old 10-13-2001, 04:28 PM   #4
michaelkvance
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Masakatsu agatsu?

m.
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Old 10-13-2001, 05:43 PM   #5
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by shihonage
"No." - O'Sensei.
Very very good Aleksey - there is hope for you yet.

The words I most often heard were dame and relax.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-13-2001, 07:50 PM   #6
mj
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I take it you meant 'damn' PeterR

My favourite phrase is...
tap...taptaptaptap.

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Old 10-13-2001, 10:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by mj
I take it you meant 'damn' PeterR
Actually, I'm pretty sure Peter meant "dame" which basically means "Nope, you're still not doing it correctly" in Japanese in this context.

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Old 10-14-2001, 12:42 AM   #8
nikonl
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Smile

damn, why are my posts always ending up as jokes...
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Old 10-14-2001, 09:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by nikon
damn, why are my posts always ending up as jokes...

OK deadly serious for once.

Mushin Mugamae

I have the scroll of that framed in my living room - there is a huge version of it at Shodokan Honbu.

Jun is right - I meant dame - there is also another word meaning wrong but the spelling escapes me chigaw (???). Heard that a lot too.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-14-2001, 10:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by PeterR
Jun is right - I meant dame - there is also another word meaning wrong but the spelling escapes me chigaw (???). Heard that a lot too.
"Chigau" basically means, "Nope -- what you're doing is different from what I'm doing."

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Old 10-14-2001, 10:56 AM   #11
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That's it - I just could not come up with the acceptable phonetics. No matter what I tried it looked wrong.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-14-2001, 03:26 PM   #12
mj
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Aaaah, I see.

Dame and Chigau are what the instructor says.
Damn is what the learner says.
....
....
.... Damn

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Old 10-14-2001, 03:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by mj
Aaaah, I see.

Dame and Chigau are what the instructor says.
Damn is what the learner says.
....
....
.... Damn
Learner says Hai sensei whether he understands or not.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-14-2001, 04:34 PM   #14
mj
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HAI!
Yes....
but not under their breath, PeterR.
(I hope you know I'm not being disrespectful)

But on a serious note, does that mean they are not allowed to question?
And by that I don't mean argue, I mean to profess their confusion and incomprehension.

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Old 10-14-2001, 04:42 PM   #15
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Don't worry Mark I am having as much fun with this as you.

Actually - and I've always had trouble with the loud Hai - its more an indication of yes sir I'm listening. Try to repeat what your shown your understanding or misunderstanding will become clear and it is your seniors choice whether or not it is worth or necessary to correct you further.

Philosophical discussions off the mat I always had the habit of saying yeah but ... Learned you get further listening, thinking and asking a question another time. Its easy to forget it is not a debate.

By the way this was my experience in Osaka, not necessarily true everywhere.

Quote:
Originally posted by mj
HAI!
Yes....
but not under their breath, PeterR.
(I hope you know I'm not being disrespectful)

But on a serious note, does that mean they are not allowed to question?
And by that I don't mean argue, I mean to profess their confusion and incomprehension.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-14-2001, 07:06 PM   #16
Peter Goldsbury
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Quote:
Originally posted by mj
HAI!
Yes....
but not under their breath, PeterR.
(I hope you know I'm not being disrespectful)

But on a serious note, does that mean they are not allowed to question?
And by that I don't mean argue, I mean to profess their confusion and incomprehension.
Just to add some more darkness on the matter, HAI does not necessarily mean Yes.

The Aikikai Hombu shihan Arikawa Sadateru Sensei has a habit of explaining something (in usually inaudible and comprehensible Japanese), to which (especially) students will answer HAI in a loud voice. He then asks, Wakarimasuka? (Do you understand?)

The subsequent behaviour of the students in practice usually indicates to Arikawa Sensei that their loud HAI actually meant No.

HAI really means "I have heard what you said', but the implication is that understanding or assent is another matter altogether. It can also be an honorific, as it usually is with students. That is, it could sometimes be thought impolite for someone to actually state that they fail to understand what an eminent person, like O Sensei, has said. So they say HAI.

Actually, I have found that when Arikawa Sensei asks a question like 'Wakarimasuka?', it is best to be honest. In any case, usually the answer is No. Sometimes you get an illuminating answer. Sometimes, he tells you to work out the answerfor yourself.

Best regards to all,

Peter Goldsbury

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Old 10-14-2001, 07:56 PM   #17
Peter Goldsbury
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Quote:
Originally posted by mj
HAI!

But on a serious note, does that mean they are not allowed to question?
And by that I don't mean argue, I mean to profess their confusion and incomprehension.
No. Sometimes you are supposed to ask questions. In this conection have you, Peter Rehse in your time in Japan, or Jun, ever heard of sakura?

Sometime ago I was on a committee preparing for the visit of a very learned person to our graduate school. He was going to give a lecture and at some point the question of sakura arose. Sakura are cherry blossoms and the usual time is March. The lecture was to be given in November and yours truly asked what cherry blossoms had to do with the lecture. There was laughter all round and it was gently pointed out that sakura are specially planted questions, with the questioners decided beforehand. Since the lecturer was so famous (I think it was Helmut Schmidt or someone like that), he had to be asked some good questions, i.e., questions designed to bring out the dazzling intellectual quality of the lecture.

We do not usually have lectures in aikido, but the late Kisaburo Osawa Sensei once visited Boston, where I was a student. He taught a class and there was a party at the old New England Aikikai dojo. We had been told beforehand that Sensei, who, as we all knew, was somewhere above the clouds in aikido, would answer questions about aikido. Se he needed some really good questions, i.e., sakura. Since I was at Harvard, I was deputed to ask him a question. I think the question was about aikido being an essentially Japanese martial art, the implication being that foreigners could not do it as well as Japanese. The answer was in one sentence, but the question actually took ten minutes to answer. The answer was preceded by a vigorous discussion in Japanese by the various senseis, with hard looks in my direction. I now realise that my question did not fit the usual idea of a sakura (you know, something coming into brilliant bloom and then dying away, leaving feelings of gladness all round).

Actually, I later got to know Osawa Sensei quite well and we occasionally talked about that Boston party.

His answer, by the way, was, 'No, Aikido is just as difficult for Japanese to master.'

Best regards,

Peter Goldsbury

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 10-14-2001 at 08:03 PM.

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Old 10-15-2001, 08:43 AM   #18
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Goldsbury
No. Sometimes you are supposed to ask questions. In this conection have you, Peter Rehse in your time in Japan, or Jun, ever heard of sakura?
God this list is great - no I never heard Sakura used in this way. Its a pretty tree to me.

However, I have been designated to ask questions AND there was an attempt to provide me with the question. I ended up asking my own - with permission of course. Even that I found strange - but I lived with it. It wasn't in the Aikido context.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-15-2001, 10:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Goldsbury
In this conection have you, Peter Rehse in your time in Japan, or Jun, ever heard of sakura?
I can't say I knew the term in that context, either. I guess it's like having a "mole" in the audience for events, huh? The only metaphorical sense for the term that comes up readily is the old phrases for passing or failing an entrance exam ("sakura saku" or "sakura chiru").

I do, however, understand what you're saying. I'm now working on three interviews I'm hoping to have up here on AikiWeb soon and have found the same kind of thing as well.

As far as the loud "Hai!" goes -- yup, this sort of "aizuchi" (basically a signal indicating "Yup, I heard you" or "Roger!") is quite common in Japanese. As Peter (G) says above, it's often quite illuminating, though, if you say "No, sensei, I don't understand" when they ask "Understand?"

-- Jun

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Old 10-15-2001, 01:10 PM   #20
mj
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Lightbulb

Illuminating.
As usual, the depth of detail means I must confess

Wakarimassen.
(But...it's better to be on the path than for someone to tell you the answer.)

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Old 10-15-2001, 10:49 PM   #21
nikonl
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Thumbs down

hmm...so what does "Mushin Mugamae" mean?
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Old 10-16-2001, 07:18 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by nikon
hmm...so what does "Mushin Mugamae" mean?
You are not ready grasshopper

No mind - no stance

One of those disgustingly simple layered phrases.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-16-2001, 09:25 AM   #23
BC
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Favorite Japanese sayings? I've always liked the term "shugyo." Another favorite is "onegaishimasu."

It's been a couple years since our Japanese Sensei passed away, but in addition to "No," another common phrase we heard was "iie."

Robert Cronin
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Old 10-16-2001, 09:40 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by akiy
"Chigau" basically means, "Nope -- what you're doing is different from what I'm doing."
... and, if you were in the Kansai district of Japan and saw one of those fluffy dogs from China with the blue-black tongues, you could turn to your friend and say, "Ano inu chow chow to chau?"

ObAikido: "Aikido, ergo sum" (which was used on the 1999 Aikido-L Seminar T-shirt...

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Old 10-16-2001, 10:23 AM   #25
nikonl
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Thumbs down

hmmm...its better if everyone puts a translation for all...hehe
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