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Old 03-02-2007, 11:36 AM   #26
Budd
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
I don't understand these Bullshido muppets. Have any of of them ever walked into a dojo and attempted to slap around Chiba Sensei?
I believe it was suggested over there a couple of years ago by an aikido practitioner to someone making a blanket bashing statement about the art. I don't think anybody followed up on the idea.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
From all the talk I read, it sounds like they smack around all the great Aikido Sensei daily. You know you're reading a parody martial arts forum when you see them judging Aikido based on this video:
At least a couple of years ago (the last time I paid much attention), members were having weekly/bi-weekly get-togethers/Throwdowns in the Toronto area. If they still are, you could visit in person and find out for yourself.

Last edited by Budd : 03-02-2007 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:51 AM   #27
Talon
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Again. I must thank you all for posting. I originally thought I made a mistake for spilling my beans in the first place on this forum, but now I'm glad I did. You guys did made me realize that I don't want to stop my Aikido practice. I do enjoy our dojo, the people and training. I don't have any needs to be a competitor in the octagon or anywhere else for that matter. I don't live the type of lifestyle that would put me in harms way often. My fionce was not too happy when I mentioned that I wanted to train more, This would mean that I'll spend more time away from home when we both have busy jobs and don't have excess time to spend together as it is. I don't think I'l crosstrain at this point I'll just stick to Aikido and my friends at the dojo.

When in the dojo we train hard and we are a good bunch of people that are really there to help eachother learn. We never attempt to win over the other. As I mentioned before, I have good nights where everything seems to go smoothly and bad nights. Last class was in my eyes a bad night. Last class was an eye opening experience since attacks were different and there was resistance and countering from uke. Looking back I don't think I did as bad as I originally thought, my sensei told me that he actually thought I did extreemely well for this type of training given that we don't normally train like that. I mean I didn't get clocked in the head and seemed to be able to somehow deal with the situation. Di dmy techniques look pretty? No. did I screw up a couple of times, Yes. Overall I think I just need to train this way more often and I will get better at it.

Again, thanks for all your suggestions and ideas. They really helped me rethink why I train and what I really want out of my training. I will read all of the suggested material as well.

Domo
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:24 PM   #28
Amendes
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
Paul Nowicki wrote: View Post
I'm getting the feeling of inadequacy when it comes to martial effectiveness coming back. I've been recently checking the videos and threads on Bullshido.com recently and it really isnt helping. Actually, on bullshido.com, March was officially declared Aikido Sucks month. Everywhere I go i see Aikido bashing and no documented evidence of Aikido's effectiveness in a martial content. Not even a decent live sparring video, never mind the real deal on the streets.
I extend the friendliest of gestures to invite you to my school in Thunder Bay. I think if you practise with us a bit you may change your mind on Aikido and find a new appreciation. If you are relly serious please come and atlest stay for the week. Airline tickets to get here are cheap and your welcome to come for a few classes. Everyone gets along great at our school, and there is no doubt about the effectivness with the way we train. We have been open 20 years in Thunder Bay now and my Shihan has been teaching twice as long as that.

If you are interested let me know and I will arange a vist for you, and I may even help you find somewhere to stay.

Just give it a month first before you come because the weather is the scariest part right now.

I am not challanging you or anything or saying I am going to put anyone in thier place or prove anything. I am not saying my style is superior or any of that bull crap, I am just saying I would hate to see someone quit based on opinions from bullshido and you might want to come here and experience what makes me happy in life.

Either then that if you don't take my offer all I can say is maybe ignore what you read on Bullshido, becuase its mostly BJJ & Kick Boxing Zombies.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:59 PM   #29
DonMagee
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
I don't understand these Bullshido muppets. Have any of of them ever walked into a dojo and attempted to slap around Chiba Sensei?

From all the talk I read, it sounds like they smack around all the great Aikido Sensei daily. You know you're reading a parody martial arts forum when you see them judging Aikido based on this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEFyswBe4x0
While there are a lot of wannabe's on bullshido, there are a lot of very knowledgeable martial artists there. Unfortunately, it seems there are a lot of people who do not get their message and confuse it with the trash talking. Its not about if I can beat up OSensei. Its about if the majority of people training in the art can perform it in a fight. It is the general consensus on bullshido that arts that do not contain sparing can not train the majority of their practitioners to use their art in a real fight. This is further reinforced by the fact that most non-sparing arts will give very silly reasons for not sparing. Unlike sport arts, there are no video's of any non sport art working against a non compliant trained attacker.

The focus on aikido I believe is not on its martial effectiveness, but rather aikido practitioners perceived martial effectiveness. I have seen tons of posts about how aikido can allow you to take down 4 attackers wielding swords with your pinky on bullshido. This is the same problem bullshido has with wing chun. Its not the art, but the unrealistic, beliefs of the practitioners that post on bullshido to defend their art.

Examples:

Question: Would you like to spar?

Common answers:

"I can't spar, if I were to spar you I would have to kill you"
" I can't spar, my art is designed to fight multiple attackers"
"I can't spar, my techniques are too dangerous to use for real"

These are not the real reason these people wont spar, but they wont admit it. They want to keep up the illusion that they are untouchable bad boys. It is ego, something that runs rampant in non-sport martial arts.

Yet another problem bullshido has with non sport arts is that there is no proof the techniques passed down actually work today. Martial arts are an oral tradition. There is a chance they can be passed down wrong. Without testing yourself, how do you know what you are learning is correct? You have blind faith, similar to religion. Rather than admit this, people will tell stories about the greats and how they could never be thrown, or beat a guy with their pinky. They seem unaware that these stories have nothing to do with what they are learning and do not validate their art any more then Royce Gracie validated my ability to use bjj in a fight. In the end, they get fed up with what happens and just make fun of non sport artists.

However, you rarely see them make fun of Tai Chi guys, unless they are claiming that can fight.

But you can earn their respect. Just go to one of the many throwdowns all over the US and other countries and show them what you got. A little friendly sparing with any rules you want.

As for slaping around Chiba Sensei this is another excuse used. It should not require a master to prove the effectiveness of an art. It should require a middle of the road student. I am not a black belt in bjj, hell i'm not even close to a purple belt. Why should it require a master to beat me? What can't a 3rd kyu hold his own with me? Plus do you think a master would bother with me in the first place? Do we really live in an age where I can call up a master and ask to come down to his school and fight? If I ran a school and some kid came in wanting to fight, I'd call the police. Anyone who would fight someone off the street in a non-controlled enviorment willingly is a fool. You don't know if I'm a meth head, have a gun, an infectious blood born illness, friends with shotguns, if I'm going to sue you, etc.

However, given the chance to spar in a controlled instance with waivers and such (like an MMA event or bullshido throwdown) I would be more than willing to fight an aikido master. Not because I think they are not effective, but because I'm sure that win or lose, I will learn something valuable. But as I said, its not about if I can beat up OSensei. Its about if the majority of sport art students are better prepared for conflict then the majority of non sport art students. Every art will have bad asses. Some people are just bad ass by nature. Would Mas Omaya been an awesome fighter if he learned bjj instead of karate? I would say the chances are high. So you can not look at individual examples of greatness. You can't point at chuck liddel and say that proves kempo is the greatest striking art ever. You can't point at Kimura and say that proves judo is better then bjj. You have to look a large sample of average joes. I believe though my experiences and interpretation of the evidence I have seen that sport arts better prepare you for physical conflict then non sport arts. I base my belief on person experience, video evidence, competency over time with my fellow bjj and judo students vs the tkd and aikido students I have trained with, my ability to gain skill in non sport arts vs sport arts, and finally the improvements I have seen in skill levels when I have had friends who train in non-sport arts switch to sport arts.

This is not to say a non-sport art can not be useful. I believe they are useful. In fact this is why I still train on occasion in aikido. I however am very frustrated when non-sport artists claim to be bad boy fighters with no evidence they can actually perform. It is one thing to claim you are learning self defense. That is a subjective term that does not need to include fighting. It is another thing to claim you are becoming an untouchable fighter. Unfortunately, a lot of non-sport martial artists make this claim, refuse to back it up, and make everyone else look bad.

Last edited by DonMagee : 03-02-2007 at 01:02 PM.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:11 PM   #30
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
As for slaping around Chiba Sensei this is another excuse used. It should not require a master to prove the effectiveness of an art.
I wasn't looking at the "average" Aikido practitioner...I only said that comment because I saw several well-known Aikido Shihans being dismissed as frauds on the Bullshido forums over the years. I merely suggested that if they believe them to be such frauds, it would probably be best to visit a seminar or a class rather then write about it on an internet forum. I'm not literally calling for an old-school dojo showdown.

Quote:
It should require a middle of the road student. I am not a black belt in bjj, hell i'm not even close to a purple belt. Why should it require a master to beat me? What can't a 3rd kyu hold his own with me?
Probably because us 3rd kyus know next to nothing, and shouldn't be looked up to as examples of great Aikido.
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:12 PM   #31
DonMagee
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
I wasn't looking at the "average" Aikido practitioner...I only said that comment because I saw several well-known Aikido Shihans being dismissed as frauds on the Bullshido forums over the years. I merely suggested that if they believe them to be such frauds, it would probably be best to visit a seminar or a class rather then write about it on an internet forum. I'm not literally calling for an old-school dojo showdown.

Probably because us 3rd kyus know next to nothing, and shouldn't be looked up to as examples of great Aikido.
That is my point. I would put a 6 month white belt in bjj up against a non-sport artist with years of training. That says a lot about the skill produced though sport training. To get to 3rd kyu in my aikido school would take about 3 years. And you are correct, they would still know very little. My instructor says black belt is just now ready to learn. So it would take 6 years before I would even be ready to learn how to defend myself. That is not a good solution for becoming effective in physical conflict.

This probably explains why the best aikido practitioners seem to be former high ranking black belts in other arts such as judo. Build high percentage skill quickly, then take the long time required to learn the low percentage, high skill techniques required to use aikido in real confrontation.

Last edited by DonMagee : 03-02-2007 at 01:16 PM.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:14 PM   #32
Alfonso
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

ha, and here I thought it was the artist not the art..

Alfonso Adriasola
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:15 PM   #33
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Yea there are some good and knowledgeable guys on Bullshido, you just have to sort through all the Bullshido to find them. One of my good friends and the guy that brought me to the next level in my training is a moderator on there, an exceptionally talented and brilliant Martial Artist for his age.

Anyway, I would recommend that you possibly consider quiting aikido for a while and studying something else. It ain't a bad thing to do, and it will not interupt your growth necessarily.

Sometimes it is good to take a step back and look from a detached point of view.

I did just that, not intentionally at first, but because of my lack of a place to train and my friend from Bullshido showed me into the world of MMA.

It was humiliating, humbling, and frustrating. I doubted all I had learned for a little while, now after nearly two years of doing it, I am finally starting to reconstruct my aikido from the inside out.

I learned aikido from the outside/In. That is we always enter from a kamae and then do technique. With BJJ we started from the inside, and now I have gotten comfortable in the inside, now I am moving back out again toward the Kamae.

It is very, very interesting to do this!

Don Magee and Michael Fooks give some good advice and the three of us pretty much see eye-to-eye on all this, so I won't re-hash.

Good advice from Lynn Seiser on reading George Leonard's book as well. It was a big help to me as I questioned budo and asked "why bother". This book answers that question.

Of course, I am not advocating that you quit Aikido necessarily. It simply is something you should think about.

Philosophically speaking many great thinkers and spiritual leaders have all recommended "letting go" as a technique to reaching the next level. It might be time to do that possibly?

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Old 03-02-2007, 01:19 PM   #34
mriehle
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
You know you're reading a parody martial arts forum when you see them judging Aikido based on this video:
Wow.

That video really, um, well, no it's just really bad.

Jun would probably ban from Aikiweb if I actually spelled out my opinion of that video.

Honestly, though, I've looked at a lot Aikido videos on YouTube and most of them are pretty bad unless they involve shihans. If you were to judge Aikido by YouTube videos you'd pretty much never start Aikido, IMO.

As for Bullshido, I think the remark that it used to be a good place for information nailed it. Even the intelligent people there seem to spend most of their time, IME, correcting stupid things said by the bottom feeders. I lost interest after a while.

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Old 03-02-2007, 01:23 PM   #35
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Here is a shameless plug for a video we produced for our Modern Army Combatives Program to introduce new combatives students to our program and the martial arts.

It covers many of the issues that Don addresses above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-lxbU47pho

Thought you might enjoy it.

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Old 03-02-2007, 01:28 PM   #36
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Actually Michael, I think even the shihans look bad.

In fact I PM'd my instructor Jimmy Sorrentino a while ago to discuss this very topic after having the same issues as our thread starter.

I think video can be very revealling, but also confusing at the same time. Much can be imagined or taken out of context.

Contrary, you can also see things that you did not notice before as well once all the pomp and circumstance and the ambience and hype of the dojo is gone.

It is enough to make you doubt and question everything!

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Old 03-02-2007, 01:30 PM   #37
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

BTW Michael, you still coming over here?

Here is Chuck Gordon's website. I have not caught up with him yet.

http://www.the-dojo.com/

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Old 03-02-2007, 01:32 PM   #38
Budd
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

I disagree that quitting altogether to try something else is necessarily the right step. To me, that smacks of wholesale trading one belief system for another, rather than getting exposure to different things and making an informed decision.

Ooh, ooh . . . quick aside . . .

Kevin, I think you just spilled the beans on your friend . .

1) Let's see, stationed overseas - check
2) Blue belt in BJJ - check (that was a funny story on how that was acquired by the way, lots of white belts had to suffer needlessly, was how I read it )
3) No longer stationed in Germany . . . check

I think I know who it is, but don't worry, not even the continental 'dark lord' prince himself could make me tell . . . if I'm right, I didn't interact much with him personally, but always respected his experience and arguments.

anyway, back on topic . . .

To finish the discussion that I would always have on Bullshido -- after a while most people would agree that rather than style, it was training methodology that made the difference in how one performed in a sparring setting.

After a few days, some genius would ressurrect the thread by posting, "But I've never seen video evidence that aikido works . . ."

CUE for somebody to say, "But O-Sensei said that aikido is non-competitive"

Rinse, lather, repeat . . . . *grumble*
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:39 PM   #39
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Yeah Budd I think you figured out who he is! Man it is a small world out there!

Bradley is a trip and a fun guy to work out with. I miss him, but don't tell him that. I am hoping to go kick his butt in May when I go down to Georgia to compete in NAGA.

I actually used to post some on Bullshido to. In fact, my profile on there says Aikido. Don't go there much anymore, frankly I became bored and did not see much to keep my interest. Too much crap to wade through for the few nuggets of info.

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Old 03-02-2007, 01:45 PM   #40
DonMagee
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Here is a shameless plug for a video we produced for our Modern Army Combatives Program to introduce new combatives students to our program and the martial arts.

It covers many of the issues that Don addresses above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-lxbU47pho

Thought you might enjoy it.
Awesome video. I'm going to steal that to make points in the future.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:50 PM   #41
Cyrijl
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

To the OP:
If you are enjoying what you are doing and do not care about sport or fighting then keep doing what you are doing. I train in judo and bjj. When I see some of the fights I realize I will never be a pro fighter. But I enjoy what I do, and I am honest to myself and my others about where I stand. At the end of the day, someone who goes out and gets physical exercise will always have a hand up in the type of confrontations you are likely to encounter.


Roman,
The problem is that alot of aikidoka will not accept a challenge. They say "Do i get to carry a sword/ Challenges are not aiki/ My dog is sad". This is why alot of people think aikido training is questionable. People see some of the ridiculous demonstrations and the cult like obedience to aikido and wonder if it is any good at all.

<unrelated>
There are people who read both forums. You are talking as much trash as they do which doesn't make you much better. Being rude and obnoxious is no less unbecoming than being passive agressive.

At any rate, why do I need to fight Chiba...? Are you not good enough? If you are not, why?

People like me do not care about your theory or your masters. It is about what you can and cannot do and your honesty in answering those questions.

Last edited by Cyrijl : 03-02-2007 at 01:53 PM.

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Old 03-02-2007, 01:55 PM   #42
Budd
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Yeah Budd I think you figured out who he is! Man it is a small world out there!
No joke! Well, my dad's a detective and I'm an analyst, so I'm all about finding answers in minutae

Though, like I said, I didn't interact with him much, but always respected his perspective. As for participating there any longer, there's only so much time for this interweb thingy and training is a much higher priority.

Speaking of small worlds, we'll ought to hook up when you're back in VA (we're a pretty quick shot into PA). I just started working out with a new RGDA affiliate here in town and am realizing that my base and positioning are still where they should be, my subs and reversals have gotten VERY rusty. So, we can play aiki and the sub-grapple.

Plus, us Itten folks keep threatening to come visit NOVA some Saturday and then go play in DC.

Anyway, back on topic -- everyone, stay in school and don't do drugs . . .
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:55 PM   #43
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Matt Larsen from the Modern Army Combatives Program, Fort Benning, Georgia gets all the credit for the speech. It is his, my combat camera guys simply put it to video.

Matt Larsen has developed something over the past 10 years or so, that is a very good, very focused program. It is simple, it is progressive, it is focused, and it is ALIVE!

It is also inclusive of many of the techniques of aikido if you want it to be that as well.

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Old 03-02-2007, 01:59 PM   #44
DonMagee
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

You make me want to join the army just to take the combative program

- Don
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:03 PM   #45
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

We had a thread a while back on challenges. They are not all bad. As I have posted before, I have challenged in someway all my instructors I have ever studied with. Heck I had the audacity to pose a "what if" challenge to Saotome Sensei years ago by pinning him against a wall, only to find my face planted squarely in it.

Nothing wrong with challenges in the right context.

I will ALWAYS propose a challenge to you if you illude or conject a skill set or ability concerning your combat effectiveness. we agree to the time, place, and the parameters and I will accept as long as it does not involve life or limb!

BTW, Budd, this is how I started with Bradley. I had a couple of my Officer friends that were interested in studying Aikido, so I took them to the Gym where Bradley was teaching nut hugging. We trained our guys side by side, his students kept wanting to know the difference in what we were doing. Eventually Bradley goaded me into fighting/rolling with him under "My Aikido Rules" and he made me look like a rank amateur.

So, I studied with him, or better put he kicked my ass for two years!

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Old 03-02-2007, 02:07 PM   #46
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

It ain't all that Don. I'll let you in on a secret...we pretty much teach BJJ most of the time!

It is a good program though, we have competent fighters that we train in 5 days. Of course they would not fair well against the average 6 month white belt in a BJJ class. But they do possess some real ability after the 40 hour class that they can grow upon.

I always tell the guys I work with, that the difference between me and them, is about 8 months of good solid training to be an effective fighter. (the secret is, I am growing 2 months faster than that i hope)

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Old 03-02-2007, 02:14 PM   #47
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Joseph Wrote:

Quote:
The problem is that alot of aikidoka will not accept a challenge. They say "Do i get to carry a sword/ Challenges are not aiki/ My dog is sad". This is why alot of people think aikido training is questionable. People see some of the ridiculous demonstrations and the cult like obedience to aikido and wonder if it is any good at all.
This comes up in almost ALL my intro to combatives class. In fact, I was teaching a bunch of Military Postal Clerks this week that are heading down range, and they were watching my demo in the mount and side control.

Someone always brings up weapons, eye gouges, or crotch techniques.

I always tell them it is a two way street, I can do that too if we are going to go there! The difference is, the guy that has to worry about that is the one that is being controlled or dominated.

So, it is always better to practice good, sound technique/principles and learn how to dominate and control first.

Punching, kicking, knives etc are all low skill instruments. Doesn't take much to use these things, however, to use them skillfully requires you to control the fight.

If I were wanting to focus on ANY thing in aikido, BJJ, or any other art...THIS is what is CORE about training. Learning to effectively control the fight.

Irimi, tenkan is a good place to control the fight. the Clinch is a version of irimi, tenkan...just closer.

It really depends on your objectives in why you are studying Martial Arts. Figure that out, and you will not be lost in what you need to study.

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Old 03-02-2007, 02:46 PM   #48
mriehle
 
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Actually Michael, I think even the shihans look bad.
Well, okay, some of them.

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
I think video can be very revealling, but also confusing at the same time. Much can be imagined or taken out of context.
Yes. We've seen several recent examples of this.

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Contrary, you can also see things that you did not notice before as well once all the pomp and circumstance and the ambience and hype of the dojo is gone.
I used to avoid watching video of myself doing Aikido. It felt, I dunno, vain. But then I had to edit together a DVD which involved me doing Aikido (along with some other people). I watched myself and realized that some of the things I thought were wrong weren't and vice versa. It was kind of a cool, new perspective.

The upshot was I started working on the real problems and quit sweating details in areas I thought was having trouble with. Thing is, I happen to know I did used to have trouble in those areas and just hadn't yet come to realize that when Sensei said, "no, it's fine" he actually meant it.

But, relative to your comment, some of what I know about what I'm looking at in that context has to do with how it felt at the time and the memory. So...

...yeah...

...the videos don't always represent people well.

It's funny, because I watched this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RaUpEMpxuY

and my first reaction was, well, horror. But I watched again more closely. I think a lot of what bothered me comes under the heading of demonstration grandstanding. But it demonstrates your point, I think. Looking at this video I don't really know very much about the people in it.

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Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
It is enough to make you doubt and question everything!
Like I need help with that.

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Old 03-02-2007, 03:25 PM   #49
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
Jorge Garcia wrote: View Post
I think it's alright to doubt. It's fine to test things, it's wonderful to look outside of Aikido (I do three different arts myself). What I was referencing was that Bullshido.com was affecting you more than that hard painful training you do in your dojo. It seemed to me that if your dojo's training was realistic enough, that a website should not have affected you that much.
This is a recurring theme I see on Aikiweb. "sounds like your dojo doesn't train hard like ours". And yet it is completely routine for people within Aikido to have these doubts. I'd wager ther are people even in your dojo who have them Jorge. I think we need a different strategy than "maybe you're training int he wrong place" as our first response.
Quote:

You know what you know in your experience. I've been reading what the party line says on this topic for a long time but that will never move my opinion an inch because I know what I have been through.
There's a party line? It seems to me there's several, on all sides...

Quote:

If I want to learn grappling, MMA or BJJ, I'll go to those schools and learn like any beginner but my current training is good enough for any normal person who lives a normal life.
My take on this is taht any normal person that lives a normal life doesn't really need self defence at all. But I didn't think that was what this disucssion was about. I thought it was about someone that specifically wanted self defence.
Quote:

I do not accept the proposition that for self defense,everyone needs to look to those arts first.
Generally if people want self defence I'd imagine they want it quickly rather than in 20 years.
Quote:
It all depends on the danger factor in your life. If you are a cop, a soldier, or a guy who loves to hang out at bars late at night or in crime infested areas, go for those good arts. If you train hard in Aikido and get really good, you will be fine 99 percent of the time in a self defense situation. Just stay away from Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz, or any of our Aikiweb ground guys if they should go to the dark side of the force.
This is a good point. When I'm arguing the other side of the coin one of the things it's hardest to make the mma nuts understand, is that we don't care if we can beat a bjj'er it's not about what happens if art a fights art b. It's about does art a keep a person safe in the encounters they are most likely to face.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:29 PM   #50
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
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Re: Getting very discouraged, need your help.

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote: View Post
I wasn't looking at the "average" Aikido practitioner...I only said that comment because I saw several well-known Aikido Shihans being dismissed as frauds on the Bullshido forums over the years. I merely suggested that if they believe them to be such frauds, it would probably be best to visit a seminar or a class rather then write about it on an internet forum. I'm not literally calling for an old-school dojo showdown.

Probably because us 3rd kyus know next to nothing, and shouldn't be looked up to as examples of great Aikido.
To be fair a 3rd kyu is not a good approximation of a blue belt. Probably Shodan is more accurate. But the result is likely the same.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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