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Old 03-01-2007, 12:44 PM   #51
G DiPierro
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

Quote:
Jim Sorrentino wrote: View Post
Giancarlo,Arrogant, clueless, and grandiose statements like that show why the late Mitsunari Kanai-sensei quite sensibly decided that you were not worth any of his attention.
That's an interesting statement. Did you ask him yourself what his opinion of me was? Have you ever even spoken to the man at all, about any subject? My guess is that you haven't.

Maybe you deduced this based on seeing how he treated me in person, on or off the mat. Perhaps you overheard one of our conversations and, based on what he said, knew that this is what he thought. Since I never saw you at any of the classes I attended with him (including his seminar in DC in 2001), this also seems unlikely.

Let's assume you don't actually have any first-hand information but that you asked some people who knew both of us well and they told you this was their opinion. If so, then post their names and exactly what they told you so that their words can stand on their own merits.

Seeing as how I knew the man personally for six years, I doubt that you have any information whatsoever upon which to even hazard a guess about what he thought of me. Your claim is so ridiculously uninformed that it could only be something you made up based on your own speculation.

Quote:
After this post, I will follow Kanai-sensei's example,
Jim, your behavior is so far from Sensei's example that it would be best be described as its opposite.

Quote:
Until then, shame on you for using a dead man's reputation to enhance your own.
I'm not the one using his reputation for anything in this discussion (or any other, for that matter). You are the one who keeps bringing up his name in a context in which it clearly has no role, apparantly so that you can avoid dealing with the content of my posts. Further, you continue to put forth your wildly incorrect assumptions about him as if they were fact. This is so obviously disrespectful to him that you should not need to have it pointed out to you.

-G DiPierro

Last edited by G DiPierro : 03-01-2007 at 12:50 PM.
 
Old 03-01-2007, 08:35 PM   #52
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Hi George:

Logically, your point is debatable. If Saotome Sensei showed everything *he* knew, then Ikeda Sensei wouldn't be bringing in Ushiro Sensei for the kokyu things. If the problem is only that Saotome Sensei is teaching it the way Ueshiba Sensei did, then by inference Ikeda Sensei is not as smart as Saotome Sensei, because Saotome didn't study with Ueshiba as long as Ikeda has studied with Saotome. I love these little thought puzzles.

To get back to realism though..... I know people who have studied under Saotome just as long as you have and who are of the opinion that Saotome witholds things. So really it seems to be a matter of opinion. The way I do it is go up to someone and say, "Show my your Ki skills". They either have them or they don't. I didn't have any for a long time and I kept looking. As soon as I could get real information, I did. And every year new vistas in these skills reveal themselves and I wish I'd been able to get started sooner.

Best.

Mike Sigman
Ikeda Sensei was taught the very same way I was taught, he's just had ten more years of it than I have. The idea that if Sensei had "shown" everything would mean that Ikeda Sensei wouldn't have needed to look so closely at what Ushiro Sensei is doing simply isn't true. Saotome Sensei is a creative genius when it comes to Aikido. I heard Chiba Sensei use those very words when he talked to me about Saotome Sensei. Sensei is an artist with an artist's temperament. But he does not present Aikido in a systematic manner and he definitely has the attitude that we have been discussing of expecting his students to make the effort to figure things out for themselves based on what he shows them and what they feel when they take ukemi and "feel" his technique. So he is completely generous about showing you what to do, but he doesn't say much at all about what you are doing that isn't right. For most people, that is a crucial piece of information... without someone telling them how what they are doing misses the mark, they do not make the jump to what Sensei is doing. But that doesn't mean that he isn't showing us everything. Ikeda Sensei himself said when referring to the classes Ushiro Sensei was teaching that, of course, Saotome Sensei had been showing us all along but we were too stupid to get it (he was including himself in this). There are only a handful of people in the country who have had more hands on time with Sensei than I have and of those, only Dennis Hooker Sensei posts. I honestly can say that, as I have figured various things out, often with the help of various other teachers from within and without Aikido, each piece that i have put together was invariably something that Sensei had done with us, usually over and over. So far I haven't really run into anything which wasn't there in Sensei's presentation to us all along.

Ikeda Sensei has always been fantastic and very dedicated to getting better. But it was the Aiki Expos which have changed his Aikido... He was in all the classes and took away an amazing amount from them. He was most effected by what Ushiro Sensei was teaching because it was exactly what Ikeda Sensei needed to make the jump to the next level. It was systematic, Ushiro Sensei has a very developed way of describing what he is doing, and it was compatible with our way of training. But the very fact that he has been able to take these ideas and run with them is a statement about the foundation he did get from Sensei.

As for the mis-comparison between Saotome Sensei training with O-Sensei and Ikeda Sensei training with Saotome Sensei.... I actually think that you are seeing precisely what proves my point. None of the post war students of the Founder felt that he got more than a portion of what O-Sensei was doing. As good as Saotome Sensei is, he still says he only got a little. He's very creative and has done things with his Aikido that he didn't get from O-Sensei so to that extent, he has added some of himself to Aikido. But he doesn't feel he made it to the Founder's level. But I think that with Ikeda Sensei you are seeing an example of the student who may surpass his teacher eventually. He will be able to do so because Saotome Sensei did show him everything and gave him the foundation required to see these other very high level folks and understand what they were doing and how to add it in to his training.

In my own case, when I hit the Aiki Expos, I met this amazing array of teachers. It was precisely the training I had gotten from Saotome Sensei which allowed me to take what these various people were teaching and make it part of my own Aikido. I have never seen any Aikido teacher anywhere who has the range which Saotome Sensei has. He has shown it all to his direct students...

Now, as you know, I am the very first one to criticize how Aikido is taught. As I have stated many times, I did require the input from a number of other teachers in order to be able to figure out what my own teacher was doing. But if he had been actively hiding things, I wouldn't have even known what it was I needed to be working towards. I saw plenty of people in those classes at the Expo who had no idea what was being taught and couldn't bring anything back in to their Aikido because they couldn't understand what was being done.

So are there folks who can explain the components of Aikido better than Sensei? Probably. But I haven't seen anyone who has shown more of the possibilities of what Aikido could be to his students.

Last edited by George S. Ledyard : 03-01-2007 at 08:38 PM.

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Old 03-02-2007, 06:27 AM   #53
DH
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
So far I haven't really run into anything which wasn't there in Sensei's presentation to us all along.

Ikeda Sensei was most effected by what Ushiro Sensei was teaching because it was exactly what Ikeda Sensei needed to make the jump to the next level. It was systematic, Ushiro Sensei has a very developed way of describing what he is doing, and it was compatible with our way of training. But the very fact that he has been able to take these ideas and run with them is a statement about the foundation he did get from (Saotome) Sensei.

But I think that with Ikeda Sensei you are seeing an example of the student who may surpass his teacher eventually. He will be able to do so because Saotome Sensei did show him everything and gave him the foundation required to see these other very high level folks and understand what they were doing and how to add it in to his training.

In my own case, when I hit the Aiki Expos, I met this amazing array of teachers. It was precisely the training I had gotten from Saotome Sensei which allowed me to take what these various people were teaching and make it part of my own Aikido. I have never seen any Aikido teacher anywhere who has the range which Saotome Sensei has. He has shown it all to his direct students...

Now, as you know, I am the very first one to criticize how Aikido is taught. As I have stated many times, I did require the input from a number of other teachers in order to be able to figure out what my own teacher was doing. But if he had been actively hiding things, I wouldn't have even known what it was I needed to be working towards.

So are there folks who can explain the components of Aikido better than Sensei? Probably. But I haven't seen anyone who has shown more of the possibilities of what Aikido could be to his students.
Hi George
I had a great deal of difficutly making sense out of this. I'm not trying to do that ridiculous internet game of "trapping" someone with their words or tripping them up with continuity issues. I just can't make sense out of the ideas- as presented.
It sounds like your saying this:
1. Each of the postwar students of Ueshiba only -got it-in portions.
2. Saotome is very talented and Chiba acknowledged he was a genius, hence he is doing more, or getting it, more than other postwar teachers
3. Important point
Saotome is openly teaching and not holding back-anything-back from his direct students yet because of or in spite of (makes no sense to me) this......
4. His direct students (and you stated this means you as well) can or even needs-to go outside to learn things!
5. And from going outside and learning from others these direct students of Saotome have the ablity to understand these things because they found out it was there all along from Saotome teachings, but they could not see them, in spite of his not holding anything back....
6. Mostly because he can't explain what he does he just does it and you fathom the mysteries of his teachings-from others understanding of their own methods!!! All because of his brilliant teaching of you!! What?

That is a fair interpretation of what you wrote. It sounds ridiculous to me. I add to that the comments you made about Ikeda that "He may surpass his teacher."
Yet Ikeda stated
1. That Aikido was a mess and folks need to do something different to fix it.
2. This... after....he brought in Ushiro. Who, according to your...model...apparently only showed Ikeda....what he already supposedly knew from Saotome ..
4. But he just needed to go outside to learn something he already knew but didn't know he knew it from his teacher.
YIKES!!!!

I'm confused.
From any other person I'd say that sounded like the truest "true-believer" rhetoric I've ever heard. It doesn't sound like you.
But I may not know I am saying this until I check with someone outside to find out if I know that I really knew what I meant...only to discover I knew it all along.

Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 03-02-2007 at 06:42 AM.
 
Old 03-02-2007, 07:35 AM   #54
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

Hi Dan,

Replace Saotome with Ueshiba, and George with Tohei.

Make more sense now?

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
 
Old 03-02-2007, 08:03 AM   #55
Mike Sigman
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
The idea that if Sensei had "shown" everything would mean that Ikeda Sensei wouldn't have needed to look so closely at what Ushiro Sensei is doing simply isn't true.
Sure it is. Think about it. If he *really* showed everything, then no one outside could show you how to do more.

Over the years, I've heard time and time again that "my teacher is very open and shows everything" from people. I always say "show me". "Show Me" are the two greatest words in the martial arts. Money talks; bullshit walks. Whenever I think I can or could do something, my first words to myself are "Show Me". I don't ever want to bullshit myself about my real abilities. The Walter Mitty ideas that we often use to kid ourselves about what we can do are the first step on the road to lying to ourselves, IMO.
Quote:
Saotome Sensei is a creative genius when it comes to Aikido. I heard Chiba Sensei use those very words when he talked to me about Saotome Sensei. Sensei is an artist with an artist's temperament.
I'm guessing he's your teacher, right?

I met Saotome when he came to the US and set up his dojo in Sarasota. I used to hang around with Tony Tartaglia, who knew and trained with Saotome at Hombu Dojo. Tony told me that Saotome used to give ki lessons on the side to some of the Japanese. Saotome ever give you ki lessons so that you can manipulate kokyu forces mentally, George? Frankly, I simply don't believe he shows people everything, but I could be wrong. You'll have to show me. And seriously, I mean that in a friendly, not derisory way. Meantime, back at the ranch, I'm going to do what I can to show some of the few things I know in an explicative way to a few people in western Taiji, Aikido, Karate, etc., and see if I can honestly help boost the level of discussion and ability in western martial arts above the abyssmal level it is right now. It's just a hobby of mine.

Best.

Mike
 
Old 03-02-2007, 10:36 AM   #56
ChrisMoses
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
That is a fair interpretation of what you wrote. It sounds ridiculous to me.
Yo Dan. I think George is expressing a very real phenomenon that exists due to a number of factors. I've had, and continue to have, similar experiences over the years, and I'm sure you have too. Just last night while practicing the uchi no kata version of our ukenagashi, I was stuck by how the whole thing works the exact same body dynamics that Rob had demonstrated during part of his Seattle workshop. When I started using what I'd learned from Rob everything clicked, but to do the movement correctly became much harder (if that makes any sense). Now I don't believe Mochizuki Sensei held anything back from us when he taught us this kata. In fact, it was the very specific nature of his teaching that led me to make the comparison and feel confident that I was merely seeing what was already there, not adding some new component. He was not holding back from me, but rather making sure that she shell of understanding was in place, and it was up to me to fill in. I've had the same experience with Neil's stuff (both informing other things I do, and being informed by new information). I'm sure you've had the same experience, where you think, "Oh man, THAT'S what xxx-sensei was doing! I am such an idiot!" That's the biggest thing I've taken from the Aunkai stuff I've been exposed to, as Neil says, "It fills holes." It's amazingly efficient at building the body skills necessary for martial movement. Some people come to the table doing a lot of this stuff automatically, and often they don't really make the best teachers. Because they just do something internally, they don't know what it's like not to do that. I suspect this is what people in the ASU (I'm singling them out due to familiarity, nothing more by the way) have to deal with, *both* with Saotome Sensei and Ikeda Sensei. There's a lot of stuff that they both just do, and if you don't, they're going to be hard pressed to tell you how because they don't know how not to do those things, they may not even know that they're doing it.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Shinto Ryu Iai Battojutsu
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:39 PM   #57
Mike Sigman
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Christian Moses wrote: View Post
When I started using what I'd learned from Rob everything clicked, but to do the movement correctly became much harder (if that makes any sense). Now I don't believe Mochizuki Sensei held anything back from us when he taught us this kata. In fact, it was the very specific nature of his teaching that led me to make the comparison and feel confident that I was merely seeing what was already there, not adding some new component. He was not holding back from me, but rather making sure that she shell of understanding was in place, and it was up to me to fill in.
Hi Chris:

Pooh. What you're saying implies that Mochizuki was too dumb to realize that you didn't get it. Or that Saotome is too dumb to realize that people don't it. The old "Show 'em But Don't Show 'em" thing is legendary in Asia. Yes you show them correctly, but you never explain it, so in effect you didn't really show them. I'm actually stunned that there are people who don't know this ancient Asian old-saw.

Best.

Mike
 
Old 03-02-2007, 01:22 PM   #58
ChrisMoses
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Hi Chris:

Pooh. What you're saying implies that Mochizuki was too dumb to realize that you didn't get it. Or that Saotome is too dumb to realize that people don't it. The old "Show 'em But Don't Show 'em" thing is legendary in Asia. Yes you show them correctly, but you never explain it, so in effect you didn't really show them. I'm actually stunned that there are people who don't know this ancient Asian old-saw.

Best.

Mike
I only get the chance to train with Mochizuki sensei for a few days every 3-4 years. He's my teacher's teacher, and we milk him for everything we can get whenever we see him. It would do your online presence a lot if you stopped insulting everyone without understanding the full scenario.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Shinto Ryu Iai Battojutsu
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:56 PM   #59
Mike Sigman
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Christian Moses wrote: View Post
It would do your online presence a lot if you stopped insulting everyone without understanding the full scenario.
You brought up Mochizuki in the context of whether Asian teachers actually "show everything". Do you want to discuss the subject or just change the subject to me and character flaws?

Mike Sigman
 
Old 03-02-2007, 02:07 PM   #60
Alfonso
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

Aren't we back to the old " Stealing -Knowledge " vs "Teaching" disconnect?

I think the joy of finding out by yourself those hard earned nuggets of information is overrated. The confidence acquired by self-discovery pales before the conviction that there's nothing more to it than the realization made.. or that you're always right and that is the best and only way to go about things.

However, this is has been the traditional way to do things, and I think there are plenty of discussions about this before.

Why is this better? FWIW I've also had the experience of having the information that Mike , Dan , Rob provide filling out gaps and making things make sense to me.

I don't think this is a sign of willful negligence on the part of my teachers; I think it has to do with them being in the same boat as me and a certain amount of scruples regarding teaching what you're not sure about yourself.

Last edited by Alfonso : 03-02-2007 at 02:13 PM.

Alfonso Adriasola
 
Old 03-02-2007, 02:22 PM   #61
Mike Sigman
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Alfonso Adriasola wrote: View Post
Aren't we back to the old " Stealing -Knowledge " vs "Teaching" disconnect?
It is, indeed. However, when O-Sensei says "figure it out for yourself", that is a case of "showing, but not showing", which is the traditional approach. However, O-Sensei and other teachers know/knew full well that not everyone can get it from just watching, so it is a matter of willfully obscuring. It cannot be couched into the idea that "he is showing us everything"... that would be a lame joke, at best.

And trust me, it's very naive to think that there are just one or two things somewhat hidden in a simple demonstration and that all you have to do is figure it out and you "stole the secret". Aikido will never regain all the secrets the Ueshiba had unless he showed them all to someone.... the ki skills are too complex to just be figured out.

You have to be told and deliberately shown a lot of it. That's why there are Hiden and Gokui topics. That's why as a general rule the sons of Asian teachers mysteriously know more than their classmates (the daughters are usually not shown all that much because they tend to marry and thus might start a competing line if they're able to show their husbands all the goods). I'm just hoping we're not really heading toward a discussion where anyone is thinking it's an insult in the implication that "their teacher" in "their style" might have not been totally forthcoming with all the secrets. I'm a little past the "my guys are the bestest" stuff.

Best.

Mike
 
Old 03-02-2007, 02:27 PM   #62
ChrisMoses
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
You brought up Mochizuki in the context of whether Asian teachers actually "show everything". Do you want to discuss the subject or just change the subject to me and character flaws?

Mike Sigman
We were discussing openness and I believe teaching methodologies when your character flaw decided to discuss the mental abilities of my teacher. Don't be such a prick.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in all Asian cultures of martial arts there are two competing theories of instruction, or perhaps better said, development of skills. Internal styles develop a core internal skillset and then later develop those skills into applicable techniques. On the other side of the fence you have external styles that believe that techniques come first and that eventually those techniques will develop the internal skills. It's been my experience that the vast majority of Japanese budo use an external teaching methodology.

The point I was making was that there is not an incompatibility between these systems, that for every 'internal' thing I have learned I have found the lesson waiting for me within Shinto Ryu if I had eyes to see it. In other words, it is an *external style* and I am reaching a point that I am starting to find the internal lessons. You are obviously from the internal to external camp and that's cool. I try to learn whatever I can from whoever has something to offer. I think that it's silly however to hold one teaching paradigm up to the standards of another. Just like in competitive fighting, whoever makes the rules generally wins. If you judge everyone you meet by the tests that you practice, they will most likely come up lacking. You have mentioned that your aikido is lacking, does that mean that your teachers were stupid? When I met Rob the first time in Tokyo, he could move me at will using the push out exercise, and had to back way off for me to do it. I was deeply humbled, but I also realize I was doing something new and he had studied it for years. After class he had me mount him to show how the same exercise could be used on the ground. I dropped into a top mount and do you know what happened? Nothing. When I was in a position that I was familiar with, I did OK. Same thing when Ark asked me to do shomenuchi ikkyo on him to show how it doesn't work on him. Guess what? It worked. He stood up laughing and said to Rob (basically), "Wow, he actually knows how to do ikkyo! OK, do it like you were in Aikido so I can make my point..." I hope it's clear that I'm not tooting my own horn or dismissing Rob or Ark in any way. I am trying to point out that all tests are not created equal and not all methodologies are the same. You consistently judge aikido by the standards put forward in your own art without regard for the possibility of different teaching methodologies/paradigms or goals. I recall a story about a certain Don Draeger who met with a Tai Chi master (someone please fill in the details here). Long story short, the master was able to launch Draeger backwards a great distance with his fa jing. Unfortunately, Draeger held onto him and took him with him.

Long story short. Mike, quit being a prick.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Shinto Ryu Iai Battojutsu
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:34 PM   #63
Mike Sigman
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Christian Moses wrote: View Post
......Don't be such a prick.
[[snip several paragraphs that don't make any coherent sense in the light the issue, but assertions about my perspectives which are not true]]
Mike, quit being a prick.


Mike
 
Old 03-02-2007, 02:42 PM   #64
ChrisMoses
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post


Mike
Well at least you understood the important parts.

Chris Moses
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Shinto Ryu Iai Battojutsu
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Old 03-07-2007, 02:52 PM   #65
statisticool
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
I always say "show me". "Show Me" are the two greatest words in the martial arts. Money talks; bullshit walks. Whenever I think I can or could do something, my first words to myself are "Show Me". I don't ever want to bullshit myself about my real abilities.
Can you "show us" actual sparring using the skills you teach I mean give seminars on?

How about would they work against a MMA practitioner in a limited rules match? (as opposed to static drills one constantly sees)

The question applies to anyone else teaching ki (or what they call ki anyway) skills.

Justin

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
 
Old 03-07-2007, 08:19 PM   #66
Upyu
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Justin Smith wrote: View Post
Can you "show us" actual sparring using the skills you teach I mean give seminars on?

How about would they work against a MMA practitioner in a limited rules match? (as opposed to static drills one constantly sees)

The question applies to anyone else teaching ki (or what they call ki anyway) skills.

Justin
Arf arf!
What the hell, I'll throw the dog a bone.

Here's miyagawa (one of our guys) doing groundwork for the first time against a fairly experienced (bluebelt) bjjer in a ground only setting.
Mind you this is like after 10 minutes of rolling, and he's pretty beat but handles himself fairly well. (Man I hate that butt scooting crap in the ground game)

Just demonstrates good use of structure/connection in a very basic way.

Last edited by Upyu : 03-07-2007 at 08:21 PM.
 
Old 03-07-2007, 09:55 PM   #67
eyrie
 
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

Hey Rob,

Not sure if you intended to post the video link (and/or you forgot to... again... ).... but in case anyone was wondering WTF Rob's talking about... here's the vid....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuoO1xl9s_o

Personally, I thought your craptastic vid of you "sparring" with a kickboxer was far more illustrative....

Ignatius
 
Old 03-07-2007, 10:11 PM   #68
Upyu
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

Doh! Thanks!!
 
Old 03-07-2007, 10:41 PM   #69
Adam Alexander
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Most organizations and most teachers are busy perpetuating their own systems. I don't believe that most would reward the efforts of someone who went outside and developed skills that the majority of the group, especially the seniors, might not have.

I think that folks really should think about the political implications of just going off, willy nilly, and training with Dan or Mike or the Systema folks, or whomever. It will change your Aikido.
Maybe the reason certain skills aren't taught at earlier stages is to benefit the student, not because of lack of knowledge or other personal agendas of instructors. In the same way that one must have a level of understanding of weapons forms to develop open hand forms, perhaps one needs a quality of values/emotion/intellect before they're ready for those other skills.

Look what happens when some of us see things before we're ready to be responsible for it.

Humbly,
J
 
Old 03-07-2007, 10:49 PM   #70
Pete Rihaczek
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Robert John wrote: View Post
Arf arf!
What the hell, I'll throw the dog a bone.
Rob, don't bother with this chihuahua. He knows nothing, but has an obsession with Mike to the point of an insulting sig (which is supposed to be an amusing quote from Mike, but actually just points out that he doesn't understand what "keep weight underside" means), insulting references on his web site about Mike, and links to another know-nothing jerkoff's old opinions-from-afar about what Mike does.

Dan talks about training MMA every other post, it's beyond obvious to any normal person that we're talking about real skills and enough people have met up to verify this stuff, yet he still has the nerve to ask questions that have been answered repeatedly, and even more nerve to expect answers from people he insults for knowing something he doesn't. People who keep talking when they have nothing substantive to say have an agenda, and his transparent agenda in continuing to participate in these threads is to hope against hope that you don't actually know anything good.

Why talk to a guy who shows blatant disrespect for you, Mike, Dan, or anybody else working to make this stuff accessible? Your call, but to me a dog doesn't deserve a bone when his actions have earned him nothing but a kick in the yap.
 
Old 03-07-2007, 11:09 PM   #71
eyrie
 
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

Chihuahuas, especially small, hairless, gelded ones are only good for one thing.... in a stew.

Ignatius
 
Old 03-08-2007, 12:28 AM   #72
Upyu
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Pete Rihaczek wrote: View Post

Why talk to a guy who shows blatant disrespect for you, Mike, Dan, or anybody else working to make this stuff accessible? Your call, but to me a dog doesn't deserve a bone when his actions have earned him nothing but a kick in the yap.
Hell, if he doesn't want it, someone else that's smarter will pick it up
Smarter than a statistical analyst <gasp>! (Ok, that's mean, since that's probably doing a diservice to all smart statistical analysts worldwide over )
 
Old 03-08-2007, 06:22 AM   #73
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Robert John wrote: View Post
Arf arf!
What the hell, I'll throw the dog a bone.

Here's miyagawa (one of our guys) doing groundwork for the first time against a fairly experienced (bluebelt) bjjer in a ground only setting.
Mind you this is like after 10 minutes of rolling, and he's pretty beat but handles himself fairly well. (Man I hate that butt scooting crap in the ground game)

Just demonstrates good use of structure/connection in a very basic way.
Rob,
If you really want to test your skills in groundwork, next time your in America, stop by one of the colleges in the midwest and try out your skills on some of their wrestlers. I'm sure they'd love the workout and perhaps you could teach them a thing or two.
 
Old 03-08-2007, 07:14 AM   #74
HL1978
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

wow I just found this thread.

It was a pleasure to meet Mike and see and feel a different approach from Akuzawas. When I tried pushing Mike I actually had no idea what to do, other than an idea of "how" to push. I can't say I have done a pushing exercise in that manner before, but the results would still have been the same. He easily took out my base whenever he wanted, and it felt as though I was pushing a telephone pole. I couldnt feel any weak points in his structure.

I don't have much in these skills, as I have only been doing the Aunkai exercises for about a year, so it was quite interesting to be able to touch someone else of considerably higher skill level than myself.

I did like Mike's exercises, I think they can quickly demonstrate to someone without much experience in this area the differences between using the body to generate power and just simply moving the arm.

I'm glad people could make it out on saturday, too bad my original plans to work inside were foiled by the judo tournament. My friend who showed up was quite impressed, he had a shorin ryu background and hadn't felt anything at all like this before. The only downside was that I spent a lot more time showing exercises/demos with him and didn't get to follow some of Mike's power generartion discussion with Rob and the others towards the end of the meeting.

Hunter

Last edited by HL1978 : 03-08-2007 at 07:19 AM.
 
Old 03-08-2007, 11:09 AM   #75
Upyu
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Re: Meeting with Mike Sigman and Rob John

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Ricky Wood wrote: View Post
Rob,
If you really want to test your skills in groundwork, next time your in America, stop by one of the colleges in the midwest and try out your skills on some of their wrestlers. I'm sure they'd love the workout and perhaps you could teach them a thing or two.
If you can hook me up I'm all for it!
Actually if you can hook me up with any wrestling champs I'll owe you more than a couple beers
Most likely I'll be in either east or west coast, but if you know any peeps that have an in on that scene in the area let me know
 

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