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Old 02-13-2007, 12:39 PM   #26
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Edward wrote:

Quote:
I agree with you, but I don't see why would someone spend years in Aikido just for the purpose of learning how to fight. Aikido is not a fighting art, if it was, most people in UFC would be learning it. If anyone feels his life is in danger, or if he/she lives in a dangerous neighbourhood, he/she would better buy a gun and learn how to use it. Aikido is effective against attackers for whom you are considered as a victim, such as a robber who is after your wallet or someone who is angry and tries to punch you with full intent. I don't believe Aikido works in sparring, or in face to face combat when both opponents are prepared.
yes, I agree with most of your premise.

However, I depart, probably more on semantics, but I believe it to be an important distincition. on the last part.

Aikido is never effective...you are, or you aren't. The things you learn in aikido may help you in a real situation, or they may not..it depends on many factors.

has nothing to do with full intent or not full intent of the other person or their level of committment to the attack they present. You simply respond appropriately to what you are presented.

sparing works in sparing, because that is what you are doing...sparing to better understand how to respond appropriately presented a set of conditions.

level of awareness or preparation are not a prerequisite to using skills and techniques learned in aikido.

I think it to be a grave error to adopt a paradigm or a set of conditions upon which you will constrain yourself to within the boundaries of that methodlogy...such as aikido.

also defining what is, and what is not aikido, and when it works and doesn't work.

I spend a fair amount of time in situations that are commonly seen or trained in BJJ. I will tell you that the underlying principles of response are identical.

I think what we get caught up in and focus on is the commonly agreed upon level of the amount of effort, force, distance, and level of cooperation. those are the boundaries that we set up when we train.

The boundaries that most in aikido agree best convey the lessons that the methodolgy is attempting to teach us. in the realm of martial arts..it is a very narrow, specialized focus.

I would never venture to say what works and doesn't work in aikido from a reality perspective as that depends on too many things.

I will debate and discusss ad naseum training methodology and which ones work best to teach certain aspects best.

I think it better to look at aikido as a simply a methodology and less as a style. Looking at it from a style perspective, limits us, and sets us up for failure from our narrow paradigm.
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Old 02-13-2007, 04:53 PM   #27
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Great posts Kevin L.
Quote:
Aikido is never effective...you are, or you aren't. The things you learn in aikido may help you in a real situation, or they may not..it depends on many factors.
So true.

Edward: If you think Shodokan Aikido is about fighting you are totally and entirely missing the boat. The reality is the vast majority of Dan-level Aikidoka from any school out there will perform technique in the same manner or worse than the scrappy sort of waza you see in most shiai competitions, even those who execute picture perfect waza when they have a compliant Uke. However this can be used as a measure of how difficult it is to apply Aiki waza with a person who is not giving away technique to you. Even in a dedicated attack situation (where you say Aikido is designed to work) it takes only a split second of denial, bad execution or timing to allow your attacker time to instinctively react by resisting your motion and shutting down your technique. If one does not train using this sort of response one will be ill equipped to respond appropriately regardless of whether the attacker is dedicated or not, that is unless one is so skilled to have waza work perfectly each and every time. The point of resistance randori is not to fight, it is to become so skilled and sensitive that the resistance becomes futile and the opponent's movement to resist becomes part of your waza itself.

Quote:
I have watched and even trained a few times in Shodokan Aikido, and it was pathetic.
Don't be so hard on yourself Edward. Many very skilled folk don't have the footwork, ma ai and metsuke skills to keep up with the repeated stalking thrusts in tanto randori. I think this is what the OP alluded to regarding it being like Boxing. One has to be quick on the feet or the tanto gets planted in one's chest.

Dave Sim:
Quote:
Although I guess having trained techniques against a resisting opponent doing an unrealistic attack gives you a good start if you subsequently want to train to do them against a resisting opponent doing a realistic attack.
Not sure if you are referring to the tsuki used in tanto randori being an "unrealistic" attack, but if this were the case you should do some research on the most popular form of knife-attack related deaths (in the West at least). Most deaths from knife attacks come in the form of an ambush where one is shanked or stabbed. The only difference between the tsuki in tanto randori and a shanking is the ma ai and sometimes the intent (sometimes).

Gambatte.
LC

Last edited by L. Camejo : 02-13-2007 at 05:00 PM.

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Old 02-13-2007, 04:57 PM   #28
DonMagee
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

I'd also say direction, if I was going to stab someone, I'd do it from behind.

- Don
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:01 PM   #29
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
I'd also say direction, if I was going to stab someone, I'd do it from behind.
That happens in shiai too if one provides the back as a target. All good training imo.

LC

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Old 02-13-2007, 05:06 PM   #30
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Sorry, I admit I didnt read your whole post, or anyone elses, but I dissagree with a large part of what your saying. "we do not train efficiently and we lose the edge of having a slightly more dangerous art." More dangerous? Are we trying to be dangerous? I do however agree on the bit about training with resitance being valuble.

To speak ill of anything is against the nature of Aikido
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:52 PM   #31
Mark Freeman
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Great clip Cady, thanks, That is one of the best demonstrations of relaxed co-ordination I've ever seen, brilliant!

Thanks again

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:59 PM   #32
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Here's another Kyuzo Mifune clip, Mark. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMw_Jtn3Avc

(Dan Harden posted both of those Mifune links last week, but some of us already dug 'em up in our quest for hard-to-find footage of the previous century's great masters.)

YouTube is becoming my favorite site... Archived footage of martial arts greats is getting posted there for posterity, and we are the richer for it. Of course, there is a lot of abyssmal footage of martial arts duds, too, but that's to be expected.
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Old 02-13-2007, 09:41 PM   #33
Aiki Liu
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Great posts guys.
Ill try and answer a few points and ask a few of my own questions...
Dominic C; How can Budo not involve competition? Is this dependant on your interpretation of competition? Obviously everyone from Miyamoto Musashi to O Sensei and beyond have competed whether it be in a sword fight to the death or throwing a judo player to see who should study at whos dojo. Surely the very definition of a warrior (bushi) implies someone who fights and therefore competes?
Larry; excellent post, thanks very much for your thoughts. Your honesty and mixing of the martial and sports is exactly what Im talking about. I slightly disagree about the tanto strikes being realistic - I see them just as a means of bringing uke and tori into "play". But very insightful posts, thankyou.
Robert R; by "advert" I didnt mean literally obviously, I meant the image that we give people of Aikido - both in and out of the martial arts world. I do have my own part-time dojo and were doing well thanks but Im interested in what other people think of these changes towards a more sporting attitude and if they conflict with the ideas we hold about Budo. I (obviously) cross train but Id like to think we (aikido) can offer more than just the one path to those who for whatever reason are unable or unwilling to train in more than one art.
Edward; Anyone who has full intent to harm you will have obviously prepared for retaliation. Anyone who thinks they can attack you without getting something back is either delusional or has a wicked first punch. Thanks for your advice that I should do MMA but as I mentioned in my first post, Im very happy with Aikido thanks because unlike some people, I know that it DOES work in the situations that you say its "not designed for". Id rather have Aikido that "isnt very beautiful" but works, than beautiful Aikido that leaves me unconscious outside a pub. Your assertion that Aikido "isnt a fighting art" is incorrect and annoying. At my boxing gym we have lots of people who come just to train for fitness etc and never spar or fight in the ring. This is absolutely fine and they get no grief about it whatsoever. However what those people DONT do is go around telling everyone they meet and posting on the internet that boxing "isnt a fighting art - its just for cardiovascular fitness". If you want to train for spiritual development or whatever that is absolutely fine and I wish you the best of luck, but for those of us who DO take it seriously as a fighting system (or one that can be used to that ends) and train with that in mind your comments are a gross disservice.
David S; Whilst the tanto attack in Shodokan Aikido isnt particularly realistic I view it as just a way to initiate the contact. Many fights Ive been in, seen etc will end up in close and "wrestling" for want of a better word. This is where the Shodokan system, like Judo, should enable you to overbalance your attacker - whether hes resisting or not and use that resistance to your advantage.
James D; Great post - thanks. Im not thinking of giving up Aikido at all, I love Aikido! I just wonder if it could benefit from a more sporting outlook in general.

Very interesting discussion so far. Id be very interested if anyone else thinks they have a clearer distinction between sport and budo?

Cheers
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:59 PM   #34
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

James, I did not mean that aikido is a cardiovascular exercice by stating that aikido is not a fighting art. I meant to say that aikido is a self-defense art, not a fighting art. Let's not deviate the subject of this thread, which wants to say that aikido should be trained and approached as a sport in order to be effective. As Kevin said above, it's not the art it's the practitioner. But as a principle, Aikido will not leave you unconscious outside a pub, it has been designed for self-defense, including bar brawls.I do not consider Aikido as a dance either, I train very hard, and attack my Nage with full intent and honesty, I just don't believe in competition and sparring, which I have done extensively during my Judo days (when I was younger and had better knees). Also I personally know Karate andn Tae Kwon Do instructors who do not believe in competition, and do not consider their arts as sports. They only train in Kata and paired exercices. They learn a lot of self-defense moves, many of which resemble aikido or jujutsu. Coincidentally, the students do very well in competitions (since they are required for grading by the associations) even though they never do it in the class.
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:26 PM   #35
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

I believe if it were indeed true that if the sole motivation of aikido were self defense...then we'd have a whole other dynamic going on in the art than what we commonly do.

No, there is much more to it than that.

It is understanding the nature and spectrum of conflict. We use various attacks and situations to understand it.

Commonly we look at uke only as a tool for nage and draw the conclusion that nage is the one doing the aikido to nage who is only attacking...and that attack is external to aikido.

I think that in order to understand aikido and the nature of conflict that it is important to understand fighting, maybe not from a reality standpoint, but at a core level.

We get into big trouble, as I discuss in my post above, when we try and transpose the methodology parochially, literally, and fundamentally to reality.

Aikido won't leave you unconscious outside a bar....usually there is a direct correalation to the amount of alcohol that you consumed in the bar that set things in motion that lead to your subsequent unconsciousness. So if we are going to transpose and apply a prior events, this event, not your aikido training probably had more to do with that.

I think it is a false correalation to form this attachment to aikido and transpose it.
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:28 AM   #36
Aiki Liu
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

The bar thing was a hypothetical situation gents. I simply meant Id rather have aiki that works but might be rough round the edges than great kata but still get knocked out in a fight.
Edward Im very interested in your statement that you train "with full intent and honesty". What is your intent when you attack then? To kill or maim your opponent? To touch him? What do you mean by this "full intent". In randori, it is very easy for uke to have "full intent" to tag tori with the tanto and very easy for him to also have "full intent" to stay upright and I think sport furthers both these intents.
Why do you not believe in sparring?
And what is the relevance of the karate and taekwondo teachers who do not spar?
Kevin, I do not believe the sole purpose of aikido is self defence either. As stated in my OP, its a sport that can give you the edge in a fight.

Regards
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:48 AM   #37
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Boxing does not blend well with aikido because pro boxing, by it's very nature( stances, postures, and manner of striking) was designed to entertain sadists (Olympic style boxing looks like fencing which is not a popular spectator sport). Both pro boxers hitting each other simultaneously is common(world champions and top ten ranked fighters included), as is ai uchi in kendo(as it was in duels).In order to understand aikido it is necessary to truely understand striking and attacking with a deadly weapon in an enlightened way.Only when both participants can attack each other at the same time, without a designated uke and nage, without either one ever being able to make contact can the realistic practice of aikido throws begin. Granted the vast majority of those teaching aikido(direct students of the founder included) are not able to do this. At this level it becomes pointless to be the attacker(although there are ways to safely "pass someone" without attacking in order to get out of the middle of a group of attackers,if he attacks you are able to strike or throw) which makes sparring or a sporting aspect irrelevant. The only way to get to this level is by sparring ironically, but not boxing sparring! I recommend as much armor as possible for weapons sparring and goggles and a cup for empty hand striking sparring. It is basically point sparring, if you get hit on the wrist or in the face with boken or jo, stop, because you would if you weren't wearing any armor. If you get kicked in the groin, have fingers thrust into your eyes than stop, because if you weren't wearing a cup and eye protection you would.This is something that has been proven by mma guys and boxers even though they wear gloves and groin protection. The thing is you don't have to hit as hard as they do( it is actually impossible to reach this enlightened level of striking I mentioned earlier if you do) so no real risk of injury. Once nobody can hit anybody else watch how the aikido throws practically happen by themselves! The only way uke can resist is by opening himself up for a crippling strike. By never offering any opening for a strike uke makes it impossible for himself to resist a throw. It is a matter of uke choosing to do a harmless roll instead of being hit with devastating blow. Interesting side effects are that breakfalls disappear from practice(it is easy to finish someone off with a kick after they have been slammed into the ground and are just laying there,even if it is just for a second) it also becomes impossible to do any of the pins, because you can break an arm or finish someone off with a strike from that position.
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:53 AM   #38
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Boxing does not blend well with aikido because pro boxing, by it's very nature( stances, postures, and manner of striking) was designed to entertain sadists (Olympic style boxing looks like fencing which is not a popular spectator sport). Both pro boxers hitting each other simultaneously is common(world champions and top ten ranked fighters included), as is ai uchi in kendo(as it was in duels).In order to understand aikido it is necessary to truely understand striking and attacking with a deadly weapon in an enlightened way.Only when both participants can attack each other at the same time, without a designated uke and nage, without either one ever being able to make contact with a strike or clinch and take the other to the ground can the realistic practice of aikido throws begin. Granted the vast majority of those teaching aikido(direct students of the founder included) are not able to do this. At this level it becomes pointless to be the attacker(although there are ways to safely "pass someone" without attacking in order to get out of the middle of a group of attackers,if he attacks you are able to strike or throw) which makes sparring or a sporting aspect irrelevant. The only way to get to this level is by sparring ironically, but not boxing sparring! I recommend as much armor as possible for weapons sparring and goggles and a cup for empty hand sparring. It is basically point sparring, if you get hit on the wrist or in the face with boken or jo, stop, because you would if you weren't wearing any armor. If you get kicked in the groin, have fingers thrust into your eyes than stop, because if you weren't wearing a cup and eye protection you would.This is something that has been proven by mma guys and boxers even though they wear gloves and groin protection. The thing is you don't have to hit as hard as they do( it is actually impossible to reach this enlightened level of striking I mentioned earlier if you do) so no real risk of injury. Once nobody can hit anybody else watch how the aikido throws practically happen by themselves! The only way uke can resist is by opening himself up for a crippling strike. By never offering any opening for a strike uke makes it impossible for himself to resist a throw. It is a matter of uke choosing to do a harmless roll instead of being hit with devastating blow. Interesting side effects are that breakfalls disappear from practice(it is easy to finish someone off with a kick after they have been slammed into the ground and are just laying there,even if it is just for a second) it also becomes impossible to do any of the pins, because you can break an arm or finish someone off with a strike from that position.
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:19 AM   #39
CNYMike
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Quote:
James Wilson wrote:
.... I love Aikido! I just wonder if it could benefit from a more sporting outlook in general....
This assumes there is something "wrong" with Aikido that does not have a "sporting outlook." I prefer not to think of things as right or wrong but just different. There are advantages and disadvantages to havign a sporting outlook and not having it.

For myself, I think Aikido should maintane whatever it is that makes it distinct from everything else. I'm training in five systems with varrying levels of sparring, and of course, Aikido has none, but that doesn't bother me! I am not going to Aikido just to see if they can regurgitate what I get from my other classes; I want to see what Aikido does.

Quote:
Very interesting discussion so far. Id be very interested if anyone else thinks they have a clearer distinction between sport and budo?

Cheers
Personally I think this is one of those questions that sounds simple but is actually more complicated.

Certainly, Judo, Karate-Do, and Kendo all have competitions, yet all are considered Budo. An people from those arts, myself included, find their way to Aikido, although whether they do Aikido in combination with those arts or switch to Aikido from elsewhere is another matter. Point is I think there's a lot of overlap between the two areas, but that does not mean Aikido should change to "catch up" to everyone else. You might undermine the very reasons why people are attracted to it in the first place!
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:57 AM   #40
Aiki Liu
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Errrr.....so Mike, tell me, have you reached this "enlightened striking" stage yet where, erm, no one hits each other...? And it must be quite difficult throwing someone wearing a suit of armour and goggles......Good to also see that enlightened striking is also practiced by not hitting each other very hard and yet at the same time having the knowledge you could deliver a "crippling strike" at any moment.
Your assertion that boxing was made for the enjoyment of sadists is both base and incorrect. Since man walked on two feet weve been fist fighting. Its simply been refined to a point where we can now enjoy it as a spectator sport. Nobody saw a gap in the market and "invented" boxing. How then does boxing appeal to sadists? Boxing is an art every bit as much as aikido and the fact that you fail to see this strikes me as interesting.
Michael G, Im not suggesting theres anything "wrong" with aikido at all. Im wondering about aikidos "evolution". We dont have to ride the sports wave at all. Im simply for it but that doesnt mean theres anything "wrong" with aiki.
cheers
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:06 AM   #41
Edward
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Quote:
James Wilson wrote:
Edward Im very interested in your statement that you train "with full intent and honesty". What is your intent when you attack then? To kill or maim your opponent? To touch him? What do you mean by this "full intent". In randori, it is very easy for uke to have "full intent" to tag tori with the tanto and very easy for him to also have "full intent" to stay upright and I think sport furthers both these intents.
Why do you not believe in sparring?
And what is the relevance of the karate and taekwondo teachers who do not spar?
Regards
James,

What I meant is that I attack with the intention to hit. Some Nage attacks stop at the surface, but I usually aim about 20 cm inside Nage for a Tsuki, and with a Shomen Uchi I aim to cut the opponent from the head down to his stomach. I also aim at where Nage is, not where I know he will move. I try to use as much intensity as possible, probably 50% of full power, otherwise I wouldn't last till the end of the session. Doing this makes aikido techniques work better because I genuinely loose my balance when Nage goes out of the way. I don't believe that one can genuinely strike and not loose balance because one expects the resistance of a hard object, flesh and bones, and if this resistance is not encountered one has to loose balance.

I do not believe in sparring as a learning tool out of experience. I used to practice Judo and being faced with another Judoka who knows exactly what I would and would not do nullifies both partis and makes it very difficult to apply any technique successfully without resorting to some strategy of faints and half-techniques before applying the real one. After a while it becomes second-nature and it becomes very difficult to let go of the bad habits acquired in sparring.

The street environment is different in the sense that there might be one or more opponents, you don't know what they will do and they don't either. If they don't know you personally they would usually assume you don't know how to defend yourself (the thug mentality) of course if you don't warn them by showing them some funny MA stances like they usually do in the movies.

That's why I believe that the artificial environment of sparring can be misleading as it does not recreate a street fight environment, and of course as mentioned sparring distorts your techniques as you try to adapt them to work on opponents from the same art.

Hence the example of the non-sparring Karate and TKD classes that I mentioned, to show that some instructors also see the drawbacks of sparring and approach their art as purely "traditional". I've seen their students win (and loose) their compulsory matches in a very pure MA way, because their technique remained clean, not distorted by frequent sparring. By pure I mean no faints and no jabs and no funny stuff, they won almost like performing a Kata or a Kumite, one block, one atemi, match over.

Last edited by Edward : 02-14-2007 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 02-14-2007, 06:47 AM   #42
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
Not sure if you are referring to the tsuki used in tanto randori being an "unrealistic" attack, but if this were the case you should do some research on the most popular form of knife-attack related deaths (in the West at least). Most deaths from knife attacks come in the form of an ambush where one is shanked or stabbed. The only difference between the tsuki in tanto randori and a shanking is the ma ai and sometimes the intent (sometimes).
Good point. I think it would be fair to say that a shiai bout isn't (and isn't meant to be) a particularly realistic simulation of a knife fight, though.
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Old 02-14-2007, 07:00 AM   #43
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Quote:
David Sim wrote:
Good point. I think it would be fair to say that a shiai bout isn't (and isn't meant to be) a particularly realistic simulation of a knife fight, though.
Of course. Totally agree.

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Old 02-14-2007, 12:08 PM   #44
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Quote:
James Wilson wrote:
Dominic C; How can Budo not involve competition? Is this dependant on your interpretation of competition? Obviously everyone from Miyamoto Musashi to O Sensei and beyond have competed whether it be in a sword fight to the death or throwing a judo player to see who should study at whos dojo. Surely the very definition of a warrior (bushi) implies someone who fights and therefore competes?
In my eyes, competition is not fighting.
A street fight has no rules, no limits noting.
A competition has all of these. There and time limits, move limits, certain things can and can not be done etc. If you train to compete you are not training to fight.

This to me is the difference between sport and budo.
Boxing is a sport
Aikido is budo (except the style you practice, which i consider a sport)
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:34 PM   #45
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

I'd still put my money on the boxer in a fight though.

- Don
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:36 PM   #46
CNYMike
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Quote:
James Wilson wrote:
.... Im not suggesting theres anything "wrong" with aikido at all. Im wondering about aikidos "evolution" ....
The thing is that a martial art isn't just a collection of techniques but a snapshot of the thinking of the person who founded it, in this case O Sensei. So while there is enough wiggle room that everyone who teaches it is different from their teachers and peers, and that goes all the way back to O Sensei's earlierst students, if you wiggle to far, you lose something. Go too far, it may not be Aikido anymore. It's a tricky balancing act, but one you're making whether you want to or not. So any "evolution" has to be with those issues in mind. At least IMO. What you do is your business, but that's what I think.
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:49 PM   #47
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

I will take a well trained MMA sport fighter who has rules and put him up against any aikido purist almost any day of the week in a street fight and put my money on the MMA sport fighter...with ""no rules'".

all things equal...do you really think you could beat Tito Ortiz? ...or any of our aikido sensei???

Sure it is possible to gain the element of suprise any day of the week, or to pull a gun, or have your buddies join in. knife someone from behind. These things do happen in real life. Does aikido really prepare you do deal with these things. I think not, they are all equal things that apply to any real situation and cancel out pretty much any empty hand training.

That is why I say all things equal.

Aikido does not equal budo, there are aikidoka that are budoka though. I have met plenty of aikidoka that do not understand budo at all.
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:03 PM   #48
Toby Threadgill
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Hi Guys,

Interesting points of view.

I understand exactly where Mr Wilson is coming from. I started my martial arts training in sport. Western fencing, followed by Wado ryu karate and then Thai Boxing. About 20 years ago I got involved in Koryu jujutsu and only continue that pursuit today. From direct experience I consider competitive engagement as a portion of your training experience VERY important. Many of the best practitioners of koryu jujutsu in my organization are those who have trained or continue to train in budo sport. That's just the fact of it. Without some competitive element or form of shiai in your training paradigm you cannot address some vital elements existing in actual physical conflict. That said, training only in budo sport has enormous pitfalls if you're considering practical defense to be an aim of you training.

I presented my opinions on this topic best in an essay over on Aikido Journal titled "Assumptions" It is available here if anyone is interested.

http://www.shinyokai.com/Essays_Assumptions.htm

FWIW...One of my top instructors in koryu jujutsu is Dave Nettles, 6th dan in Shodokan Aikido and chief instructor of JAA USA. The competitive element in his training in Shodokan Aikido has served Dave very well in his pursuit of studying koryu jujutsu.

On the topic of what defines budo vs sport, I agree with those who present the opinion that budo is greatly a mindset. I have seen those in competitive sport who are doing both sport and budo at the same time and admire them greatly for the discipline they display. Unfortunately I have also witnessed those doing budo only as sport. Budo performed only as sport is not evolution in my opinion, but degeneration. It reduces the dignity and moral conscience of budo to insignificance, resulting in the competitive element of training becoming an end unto itself instead of a means towards a greater end. To paraphrase a common idiom, competition sometimes becomes the tail wagging the budo dog. With the loss of a greater duty to the moral objectives associated with budo, ego gratification frequently becomes the driving force of the training experience, with all the problems that entails.

So is sport the new budo? I don't think so. Sport in the context of budo can be either valuable or destructive depending on the context in which it is utilized and tempered.

All the best,

Toby Threadgill / TSYR
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:55 PM   #49
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Here is a short 3 minute video that shows what I consider to be a good blend of sport, competition, and warrior ethos (budo). Matt Larsen sums it up pretty good at the end of the video.

I understand that not everryone can or should train this way, but it is possible and it is being done not only in the Army, but in other schools as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEDkzD0ULKo
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:02 PM   #50
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Sport is the new Budo

Here is another link for the Army's Combatives Competition. Does a good job showing how competition plays a part in developing soldiers in the warrior ethos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVY5VU5B-iE
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