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Old 02-08-2007, 11:40 PM   #1
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Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

Posted 2007-02-07 15:18:37 by Derek Eastman
News URL: http://www.geocities.com/britishaikido/news.htm

The Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido continues the tradition of the Aikido exercise of push-ups on the back of the wrists, as taught by Kenshiro Abbe Sensei. Jason Tonks is the first student to complete non-stop 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists. Photo on the attached website.

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Old 02-09-2007, 12:29 AM   #2
Michael Varin
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

1000 non-stop push ups is impressive no matter how the hands are positioned, but I don't think this is a record.

http://www.recordholders.org/en/list/pushups.html

Toward the bottom of the page there is an "on back of hands" category.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 02-09-2007, 05:15 AM   #3
Dazzler
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

What do the medical people think of this excercise? Are there any benefits over standard push ups?
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Old 02-09-2007, 06:50 AM   #4
nigeljones
 
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

Mr Sims

The exercise being shown by Jason is a practice which was prevalent in the UK from is inception. Unfortunately, it is has not been continued by the main stream schools. Doing press ups on the wrists both inward and outward directions, builds and flexes the wrists. I personally don't see any harm to the wrist considering it does not apply any more or less pressure than Nikkyo or Kotegaeshi? I personally continue the practice of press ups on the wrists, and so do my students. It does gain great flexibility. Perhaps you would like to ask your President what happened when he last tried to execute a Kotegaeshi on me!
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Old 02-09-2007, 07:58 AM   #5
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

Quote:
Nigel Jones wrote:
Mr Sims

The exercise being shown by Jason is a practice which was prevalent in the UK from is inception. Unfortunately, it is has not been continued by the main stream schools. Doing press ups on the wrists both inward and outward directions, builds and flexes the wrists. I personally don't see any harm to the wrist considering it does not apply any more or less pressure than Nikkyo or Kotegaeshi? I personally continue the practice of press ups on the wrists, and so do my students. It does gain great flexibility. Perhaps you would like to ask your President what happened when he last tried to execute a Kotegaeshi on me!
Hi

You might as well tell us since now you've posted this and got us all wondering - I do hope its something good!

In the meantime anyone got any medical opinions - I'd hate to start readying myself for an attempt at this myself only to find that it was of no benefit to my Aikido at all.

Regards

D
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:35 PM   #6
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

Mr Sims

Doing press ups on your wrists is the same as any other exercise. You gain benefits over a longer period of time. Trying to do 1000 press ups, just because you have seen Jason doing it, would not in the short term be of any use to you whatsoever. You have to incorporate it in to your main warm up, before every practice. Over a period of time, your wrists will become stronger and flexible.

I very much doubt anyone on here has the slightest interest on what took place between me as a Uke for your President. If you re read my original posting, you will find the answer there. You're more than welcome to ask him, as he knows me very well. Please feel free to send me a private message. This thread is about press ups on the wrists, so I don't want it to sway off topic.
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Old 02-09-2007, 06:51 PM   #7
Adam Alexander
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

Quote:
Nigel Jones wrote:
Mr Sims

Doing press ups on your wrists is the same as any other exercise. You gain benefits over a longer period of time. Trying to do 1000 press ups, just because you have seen Jason doing it, would not in the short term be of any use to you whatsoever. You have to incorporate it in to your main warm up, before every practice. Over a period of time, your wrists will become stronger and flexible.

I very much doubt anyone on here has the slightest interest on what took place between me as a Uke for your President. If you re read my original posting, you will find the answer there. You're more than welcome to ask him, as he knows me very well. Please feel free to send me a private message. This thread is about press ups on the wrists, so I don't want it to sway off topic.
Well, I'm in the mood to sway. What kind of j*ck-ass are you? Apprently you were doing wrist-push-ups when etiquette was being taught.
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Old 02-09-2007, 09:13 PM   #8
giriasis
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

Ummm...I believe Mr. Sims was asking for medical opinions and perhaps whether this is actually a wise exercise. I don't think he is trying to slight your experience or sensei, Mr. Jones.

Anne Marie Giri
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:30 AM   #9
Dazzler
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

Quote:
Nigel Jones wrote:

I very much doubt anyone on here has the slightest interest on what took place between me as a Uke for your President. If you re read my original posting, you will find the answer there. You're more than welcome to ask him, as he knows me very well. Please feel free to send me a private message. This thread is about press ups on the wrists, so I don't want it to sway off topic.
I have no interest in your interaction with our President in the slightest. I've trained with him long enough to know his strengths and human weaknesses and also trained with plenty of other instructors ( including Mr Eastman who posted the original details of this) to ensure that my views are not those of someone with the institutional weaknesses which can occur when one only experiences a single style, In which case I am happy to form my own opinion without your input although I thank you for the offer.

Without being overly rude - If you didn't want it to sway off topic why drag it in in the first place!

My initial enquiry was and remains linked to the benefits of such training when modern coaching methods warns of dangers of some repetitive practice. Everyone surely is aware of RSI and the risks of legislation in this day and age.

Other problems such as Carpal Tunnel Syndrome may or may not be exacerbated by this excercise.

From the angle of teaching children I'd be quite concerned personally with this and definitely not do it.

However, I'm not a doctor, merely a coach, which is why my initial post was to canvas opinions from the medical fraternity that could or could not either justify this as a useful excercise or indicate if it could be harmful.

I fail to see how you could extrapolate anything more from my initial post to justify your response.

It would seem that anne Marie and Ronjon would agree with me on this.

Be assured that at no stage am I having a dig at either Jason Tonks or Derek Eastman - fair play to Jason for his very difficult achievement, however, there are many visitors to this website that do not have your 27 years of experience - these are the ones that would benefit most from the medical opinions available before taking up the challenge to beat Jasons score.

Respectfully

D
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:47 AM   #10
philipsmith
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

As a Chartered Physio. with a reasonable experience of Aikido I would not recommend this exercise for two reasons:

1 over pressure on the flexor tendons of the wrist can lead to tenosynovitis whether or not it is repetitive. In children it is also very risky as it puts pressure on the ephyphises (growth plates) of the bones of the forearm the radius and ulna
2 I dont understand its relevance to Aikido. At best it is a body conditioning exercise, to link it to one's ability to (presumably) resist kotegaeshi is in my opinion unsound as kotegaeshi is a twistinmg application whereas the press up is a linear application of force.

In saying that if you as an adult want to do it fine, and I think 1000 of any type of press-up is a phonomenal feat of strength and endurance.
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:50 AM   #11
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

Quote:
Philip Smith wrote:
As a Chartered Physio. with a reasonable experience of Aikido I would not recommend this exercise for two reasons:

1 over pressure on the flexor tendons of the wrist can lead to tenosynovitis whether or not it is repetitive. In children it is also very risky as it puts pressure on the ephyphises (growth plates) of the bones of the forearm the radius and ulna
2 I dont understand its relevance to Aikido. At best it is a body conditioning exercise, to link it to one's ability to (presumably) resist kotegaeshi is in my opinion unsound as kotegaeshi is a twistinmg application whereas the press up is a linear application of force.

In saying that if you as an adult want to do it fine, and I think 1000 of any type of press-up is a phonomenal feat of strength and endurance.
I second Philip's opinion. When I was in the UK, I followed in the Abe/Chiba tradition, which is also common in Japanese universities (I will return to this later).

Basically, you did warming up and then, to 'strengthen' your wrists, you did these push-ups, with variations of (1) the whole hand, palm downwards, (2) three fingers (thumb, index, middle), (3) the back of the hand facing inwards, (4) the back of the hand facing outwards, or (5) jumping between positions (3) and (4).

It was M Sekiya Sensei who cautioned against push-ups as an exercise in aikido. Sekiya Sensei stressed the importance for aikido of the training exercises found in sumo, favoring the hips and lower body. But his words fell on stony ground and we favored the exercises designed to emphasize the body type of the western male, with strong arms and upper body.

Not long after arriving in Hiroshima I attended a summer camp of the Hiroshima Universitry Aikido Club. The summer camp combined aikido practice with training and the favored exercises of the latter involved push-ups and something called obi-mochi.

On this occasion, there were 50 students and they arranged themselves in a circle. For the push-ups, each student had to lead the training by shouting up to 10 and the training went clockwise round the circle FOUR times, making 2,000 push-ups in all. So Jason Tonks has some way to to go before equalling the practice in Hiroshima University.

Obi-mochi means holding the obi (belt). Students ranged in a circle and did knee-bends, while holding the obi (hence the name). Again each student had to do the exercise while shouting out the numbers from 1 to 10. And again, the club captain could go round the circle as many times as he or she liked, but he/she had to set the pace and could not slacken. So the captain had to be very strong, or had to pace the training to the degree to which he/she was capable of.

However, there is one element in the Japanese university training that would be absent with the solo training of Mr Tonks. In Japan it is crucially important for everyone to join in the training and the resulting peer pressure is thought to be the essential factor in determining success or failure. So, the fact that (1) there were 50 people in the circle, that (2) you were one of the 50 and that (3) you absolutely had to keep up, was a major factor in ensuring that the captain, for example, actually did the 2,000 push-ups, even apart from his physical strength. The Japanese military used this principle of group pressure as an important factor in WWII and it is still used here in aikido and other activities.

Actually, I believe that I never strengthened my wrists from these exercises (when I first arrived in Japan, I was as crazy as the students were and I participated fully). Apart from repeated training from 1-kyou to 4-kyou, I preferred suburi with the boken and jo, especially with a makiwara, and the sumo exercises.

Best wishes,

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 02-12-2007 at 08:58 AM.

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Old 02-12-2007, 11:34 AM   #12
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Re: Jason Tonks completes 1000 push-ups on the back of his wrists.

I do these types of push-ups as well. I first started them when I was training in Yokosuka, Japan. Specifically, I do the ones that Mr. Goldsbury already stated [minus the three fingered type…I tried them as well and I suck!].

I do perform a fingered variation that can be an actual push-up on the fingertips or I hold my body in a raised push-up position while on the fingertips for 30 plus seconds.

I, however, do not do these types of push-ups to train upper body strength per say. I specifically work on relaxing through the push paying attention to the shoulder, arm and back muscles being careful not to power the push specifically from the arm/shoulder muscle groups, but more from an alignment from the spine, drawing from the hara. At the same time focusing on not letting the shoulders hunch up. All-in-all, I find that it very much becomes a kokyu "type' exercise if I focus it in this manner.

If tension is maintained during these types of push-ups then they become quite painful. Therefore, I find them to be an excellent exercise in transferring power through relaxation.

I do not let children perform push-ups in this fashion. I have no medical bases other than common sense.

In an effort to NOT focus on upper strength and more on the form, I will adjust the push-up to be performed from the knees as well.

FWIW

Charlie B.

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