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Old 09-25-2006, 03:34 AM   #1
graham
 
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Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?

Just out of (newbie) interest, what's the relationship between Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?
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Old 09-25-2006, 05:49 AM   #2
CitoMaramba
 
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Re: Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?

Toshishiro Obata, I think.
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Old 09-25-2006, 09:46 AM   #3
philippe willaume
 
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Re: Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?

this is the shinkendo web site. I think that should answer your question.
http://www.shinkendo.com/

phil
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Old 09-25-2006, 09:55 AM   #4
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?

Geez...This guy is fascinating. Up till now I have been largely ignorant of Obata Toshishiro or his system. I really like his outlook on budo. His philosophy on budo largely parallells what I was taught. I would love to learn from him. Has anybody on this forum trained at his dojo in LA?
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:23 AM   #5
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?

There is no historical connection here. The Toyama Ryu developed out of the training given at the Toyama Military Academy in the pre-war years. Nakamura Sensei was the Founder. He was a controversial figure due to his activities in the war. Suffice it to say that his understanding of how to cut someone with a sword was not academic.

Obata Spent some time training with Nakamura from whom he learned the use of the live blade. He aslo trained with Shioda Sensei in Aikido and got a 6th dan from the Yoshinkan folks. He went on to develop Shinkendo which, as I understand it, is his attempt to develop a modern comprehensive sword system that would have the heart and soul of a classical system. I have a friend who trains with Obata and finds it very worthwhile. I like his attitude, myself. Rather than try to simplify and dumb down the martial arts that we have been given, he is trying to preserve the spirit of traditional Budo. Technically, it's not kenjutsu in the sense that it is a classical Japanese style, but Obata Sensei has tried to give it that essence. His people sure have a better understanding of the sword than most Aikido folks do.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:13 PM   #6
Lone Shinobi
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Re: Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?

That is very true indeed.Shinkendo,Toyama Ryu and aikido have nothing in common.First off,Shinkendo is or was based off Battojutsu,also known as Iaijutsu.Battojutsu is a sword drawing art.Aikido is a modern form of Budo and a decendant of Aikijutsu.But it is in no way based upon tradictional Aikijutsu.O-Sensei wanted to make a art of peacefull intent,not a combative art like Aikijutsu.

Shinkendo is more or less based upon Battojutsu.But I could be very wrong about this.Most of your Iaijutsu and Battojutsu techniques start from a kneeling or sitting position.Shinkendo is true to the original ways of tradictional Japanese Budo.I hope my words come across as usefull and not ignorant.Forgive me if it does.I mean only well and hope that my info can be of use to you.Be at peace..


P.S. I do not claim to be a expert on this subject nor do I practice Aikido or Shinkendo just of yet.
My experiences come from Bujinkan Taijutsu and alittle Shotokan Karate during my youth.
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Old 09-25-2006, 04:25 PM   #7
Jory Boling
 
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Re: Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?

Quote:
Derrick Hall wrote:
...Most of your Iaijutsu and Battojutsu techniques start from a kneeling or sitting position.
Most of my current battojutsu (My sensei was a student of Nakamura Sensei's for 40 years) curriculum consists of all standing techniques. And from what I've read on the subject of Toyama Battojutsu, it's almost entirely all standing. We do have some seated waza with the shoto/wakizashi, though.

From my limited experience and research, the koryu iaido arts all contain mostly kata that start from seiza (note: "limited" being a key word here).

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Old 09-25-2006, 05:58 PM   #8
Kent Enfield
 
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Re: Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?

Quote:
Jory Boling wrote:
From my limited experience and research, the koryu iaido arts all contain mostly kata that start from seiza (note: "limited" being a key word here).
The two koryu iaido that most people are familiar with are Muso Shinden Ryu and Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu. I've practiced only the former, but the two have very similar curricula. In MSR, there is one set of solo forms that start from seiza. There are three more sets of solo waza: two from tatehiza and one from standing. To my knowledge, none of the paired forms start from seiza. They all start from either tatehiza or standing--often different sets will basically be repeats of the same basic form from tatehiza then from standing.

However, the seiza solo forms come first, so that is the most common impression of what iaido is like.

Kentokuseisei
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Old 09-25-2006, 06:17 PM   #9
ChrisMoses
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Re: Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?

Toyama ryu is nearly entirely a standing art, and while Shinkendo's roots may stretch beyond Toyama ryu, from what I've seen they maintain this emphasis. My ryuha considers itself "Iai Battojutsu" and we have standing and seated kata. Iai and Batto can be used almost interchangeably. We use the term batto because it *can* imply a more practical approach to drawing (our art emphasized the striking aspect of the draw) and because we also do tameshigiri which is *more* common within battojutsu ryuha than Iai. This is particularly true as some lines of Iai strictly forbid tameshigiri. The terms are very much guidelines however, and not much can be drawn from the terms beyond the fact that the art deals with the katana, and will most likely begin their kata with it sheathed. Shinkendo considers itself a new kind of art (like aikido, judo, iaido, battojutsu, kenjutsu) thus the more modern naming convention: shinkenDO rather than Obata-ha Toyama ryu (purely fictitious ryuha, just as an example).
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Old 02-03-2007, 05:56 PM   #10
mad_musashi
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Do symbol Re: Shinkendo, Toyama Ryu and Aikido?

Quote:
Ricky Wood wrote:
Geez...This guy is fascinating. Up till now I have been largely ignorant of Obata Toshishiro or his system. I really like his outlook on budo. His philosophy on budo largely parallells what I was taught. I would love to learn from him. Has anybody on this forum trained at his dojo in LA?
I am currently training aikibujutsu/aikido with him and hope to start Shinkendo soon.

Obata Sensei is an amazing man: very formal, very humble, ultra-knowledgeable and one of the best instructors I have found in the L.A. area. I highly recommend his dojo to serious practitioners.
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