Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-26-2007, 08:27 PM   #1
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
Hypocrisy in Aikido

I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza. Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is. This disturbs me greatly and has since the day I stepped on the mat. Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream. Those of you who are poison must cure yourselves. This won't be pleasant. It will be painful and terrifying. Step outside your defenses and face your internal conflicts. Challenge yourselves. Quit wasting your time trying to heal the world if you won't even heal yourselves. Be brave. You are important. Aikido needs you to be real. I need you to be real. God created you real. Commit metaphorical seppuku and destroy your disgusting falseness. Even if the pain lasts for the rest of your life, at least you can carry with you the Pride (Hokori) that you are doing your absolute best. If you are too afraid to recognize the evil within you, get the hell out of Aikido so at least you won't be a God Damned hypocrite.

Drew
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 08:43 PM   #2
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

I think this got mistakenly posted here. Looks like it should be in the 'Humor' section. Good one!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 08:51 PM   #3
L. Camejo
 
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Canada
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote:
I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza.
Well if they really are more advanced in aikiwaza then they should be able to kick your a$$ using aiki waza which, since this is a martial art, means that you probably have something to learn from them. When you are able to kick theirs then the tables would have turned and you become their sempai.

The antidote for hypocrisy is to get out there and show what you've got. If you're worth anything it should show up in your Aikido which starts with aiki waza and ends with the whole "world peace" thing. One can't bring about world peace without first having effective means of dealing with the enemies of that peace.


LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 09:03 PM   #4
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

looks like a couple hypocrites are past the point of no return

Drew
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 09:06 PM   #5
L. Camejo
 
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Canada
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote:
looks like a couple hypocrites are past the point of no return

Drew
Lol. I like it.

How do you define hypocrite?

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 10:01 PM   #6
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,181
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote:
I Commit metaphorical seppuku and destroy your disgusting falseness.
...and I, assisting you, symbolically will cut your head off. What a world today, everything become wirtual, even honorable death. No more real warriors.

s(wondering what will be metaphorical sex.... )

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 10:07 PM   #7
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote:
I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza. Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is. This disturbs me greatly and has since the day I stepped on the mat. Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream. Those of you who are poison must cure yourselves. This won't be pleasant. It will be painful and terrifying. Step outside your defenses and face your internal conflicts. Challenge yourselves. Quit wasting your time trying to heal the world if you won't even heal yourselves. Be brave. You are important. Aikido needs you to be real. I need you to be real. God created you real. Commit metaphorical seppuku and destroy your disgusting falseness. Even if the pain lasts for the rest of your life, at least you can carry with you the Pride (Hokori) that you are doing your absolute best. If you are too afraid to recognize the evil within you, get the hell out of Aikido so at least you won't be a God Damned hypocrite.

Drew
Drew Garner-san think to much. More sake make you think less, be happy!

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 10:38 PM   #8
L. Camejo
 
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Canada
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote:
I've trained with people caught up in a rank hierarchy. Some think they're my sempai in Aikido when really all they are is more advanced in aikiwaza.Even some yudansha don't understand what Aikido is. This disturbs me greatly and has since the day I stepped on the mat. Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON
I'm still trying to get this - so people who are better than you in aikiwaza or are higher in the rank hierarchy are poison and hypocrites?

Is that right or have my hypocritical tendencies allowed me to completely miss the boat on this one?

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 10:56 PM   #9
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
(wondering what will be metaphorical sex.... )
http://www.vrinnovations.com/

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 11:46 PM   #10
Kim Rivers
 
Kim Rivers's Avatar
Dojo: Berkshire Hills-Ryu Aikido
Location: Western Massachusetts
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 13
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

I am confused, wouldn't pointing at others and naming them as poisonous and hypocrites be rather un-aiki-like, thus making the accuser the hypocrit?

I like someone else's suggestion that you have more sake -Kim
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 11:49 PM   #11
Steven
 
Steven's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 622
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Ignatius,

Not sure what's more disturbing. The items for sale on that site or the fact you even knew the URL to that site. :-)
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 11:54 PM   #12
Tennessee Mike
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Paraphrasing C. S. Lewis, "Knowing what men ought to do and doing it are two different things." Hypocrisy is a human condition just like pride. Just remember Socrates slogan, no not "question everything", but "an unexamined life is not worth living." Remember while others may say "you are not doing aikido" and you might not be, that we all express aikido differently. Observation of techniques depends on the observer and can be subjective depending on attention to detail, experience, prior teachers, and preconceptions about aikido.

As far as love, you might try to determine it from words and actions but you still have to know the intent of the doer. If you fully understand love then you truly know how to respond to every situation and no longer need aikido since you would be perfect. But since we are not perfect, then we cannot fully express love. No matter how we try, we bring our faults with us on the mat.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 12:25 AM   #13
eyrie
 
eyrie's Avatar
Location: Summerholm, Queensland
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,126
Australia
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Steven Miranda wrote:
Not sure what's more disturbing. The items for sale on that site or the fact you even knew the URL to that site. :-)
LOL @ Steven. True, I'm a seriously disturbed individual... that's why my Google-fu is STRONG!...

I meant to put a NC-17 or MA18 warning on my previous post...

Ignatius
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 12:35 AM   #14
clwk
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 138
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

I think it would be a good idea for all participants in this thread to review the (recent AikiWeb) topic of Bipolar Disorder before getting too worked up about anything. It's always a good idea to avoid getting worked up if possible, and the aforementioned topic is a complex one. Other than those platitudes, I have nothing special to add; and I hope no one minds the insertion of a few well-meaning, if misguided, remarks. Even though the internet is not really a good medium for such things, I think some measure of empathy may go further than what might otherwise be appropriate response. Everyone could apply this innocuous suggestion without any great harm coming to the world.

Have a nice day.

Chhi'mèd
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 12:58 AM   #15
hapkidoike
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 51
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote:
. . . Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream. Those of you who are poison must cure yourselves. . . .

Drew
The problem with this sort of attitude is that it hinges on who gets to define the terms, and how those agreed upon terms are to be interpreted in specific circumstances. Until we 1) agree upon definitions and 2) agree on how to interpret them, then we cant even really discuss your issue.
Second, give us a break man. Everybody does whatever it is that they do (aikido, taekwon do, dance, art, music, small engine repair, play AD&D [2nd ed.], etc.) for their own reasons. I do aikido for lots of different reasons, but none of them include 'philosophy' or any sort of attempt to understand normative ethics. Telling people that they are doing something that they get off on for the "wrong" reasons is offensive and immature. If you start sweating people about their motivations, probably they will start sweating you for yours.
later
bettis
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 02:39 AM   #16
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Chhi'mèd Künzang wrote:
I think it would be a good idea for all participants in this thread to review the (recent AikiWeb) topic of Bipolar Disorder before getting too worked up about anything. It's always a good idea to avoid getting worked up if possible, and the aforementioned topic is a complex one. Other than those platitudes, I have nothing special to add; and I hope no one minds the insertion of a few well-meaning, if misguided, remarks. Even though the internet is not really a good medium for such things, I think some measure of empathy may go further than what might otherwise be appropriate response. Everyone could apply this innocuous suggestion without any great harm coming to the world.

Have a nice day.

Chhi'mèd
I've encountered this before on message boards. Someone claiming to be manic-depressive bursts on attacking everyone in sight with vitriolic rants so ridiculous they seem like a joke. It gets into a really tricky area in terms of the defintion of an illness vs. the concept of free will.

To what extent do we excuse someone from acting like a raging a-hole because their brain chemistry "made them do it"? Couldn't the same logic be applied to anyone who does anything? Oh, that Hitler guy was just acting out his insecurity issues, he really couldn't help it... Oh, that pedophile rapist just had a psychological complex dervied from his abusive upbringing with the blah, blah, blah... we should have sympathy for him...

I think, overall, that people just don't think like this, and trying to force some sort of radical PC vision of human culpability on them wherein they put up with any sort of unreasonable abuse won't work. Bipolar is still getting a pass, I suspect, because these people alternate between a more recognizable "normal" state, and a sociopathic state that no one has any patience or sympathy for.

I really don't see any way to accomodate or tolerate a bipolar person's episodes any more than I would someone else who has no official excuse and is just a jerk. Their hidden brain chemistry and motivational schemes are not my problem. You are what you are. I'm depressive and I don't go around using it as an excuse to be let off the hook for how I behave. I accept myself and the consequences. If you want to make an extra effort to understand me and my motivations, that's great, but I don't expect any special treatment. I don't think manic-depressives throwing down gauntlets and spewing insults should be any different. It is their responsibility to get some kind of grip on their behavior schemes and avoid acting out in public, and if they don't, they should expect to get what they ask for.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 03:09 AM   #17
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,031
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
......When you are able to kick theirs then the tables would have turned and you become their sempai........
Not true I'm afraid. the sempai kohai relationship has nowt to do with ability or grade.

Basically, "Bob" joins the club before me or starts Aikido before me, he will always be my sempai, regardless of what grades or abilities we both achieve. There are old threads on here explaining the sempai - kohai relationship, I'm pretty sure Peter Goldsbury has explained it in detail a time or two.

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 06:52 AM   #18
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
Oh, that Hitler guy was just acting out his insecurity issues...a sociopathic state that no one has any patience or sympathy for...I really don't see any way to accomodate or tolerate a bipolar person's episodes any more than I would someone else who has no official excuse and is just a jerk. Their hidden brain chemistry and motivational schemes are not my problem.
HItler was prejudiced against and murdered people with mental disorders. No matter what mood I've been in, I've never been a sociopath (a person with no conscience). I haven't been manic or depressed in seven years. I know it's an easy mental shortcut to group bipolars, instead of realizing they're individuals, but you're showing your ignorance and lack of insight. I urge anyone in the world who has a legitimate reason to dislike me to call me out on this message board. I expect more wussy beating around the bush or silence.

Drew
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 07:08 AM   #19
RoyK
Dojo: Nishin Kan
Location: Herzliya
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Israel
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

I think that as long as you feel that your instructor is following the path that you believe to be true to Aikido, that's all that should matter to you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 07:16 AM   #20
statisticool
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 534
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote:
Anyone who claims to be an Aikidoka but doesn't FULLY understand Love (Ai) and Respect (Rei) is POISON hindering the progress of O'Sensei's dream.
http://www.80srockstars.net/poison/poison028.JPG

There is no hope.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 07:22 AM   #21
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Roy Klein wrote:
I think that as long as you feel that your instructor is following the path that you believe to be true to Aikido, that's all that should matter to you.
Thinking you have one instructor is a delusional and dangerous thought.

Drew
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 07:31 AM   #22
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote:
Ha! I had the same loose association when I wrote "POISON:"

"...rollin' the dice of her life..."

"...win big...lose big"

"...I won't forget you baby..."

"...DJ says love's a game of easy come and easy go..."

Drew
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 08:03 AM   #23
L. Camejo
 
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Canada
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote:
Not true I'm afraid. the sempai kohai relationship has nowt to do with ability or grade.
True. Hence the smiley at the end of the post.

However the lack of actual technical ability (usually a base level equalizer in many other MA) on the part of one's seniors can be a window through which feelings of "hypocrisy" on their part may enter. The kohai/sempai relationship is directly linked to a certain degree of respect between the people involved but this respect is often enforced by some other motivation within the dojo culture. There are many stories of friction between kohai and sempai when the former bypasses the latter in rank or technical skill. This friction can be resolved in a number of ways based on the persons involved.

Though the initial post was pretty much a rant, what I did get from it was some disgruntled feelings towards sempai either in the area of aikiwaza skill or their understanding/application of Ai and Rei. I'm guessing his feelings may be linked to disappointment in what he is experiencing from his sempai in these areas. Clarification will be required I guess.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 08:08 AM   #24
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 588
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

I don't think anyone fully understands anything.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2007, 08:35 AM   #25
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
Re: Hypocrisy in Aikido

Quote:
Lyle Bogin wrote:
I don't think anyone fully understands anything.
Fully understand relative to God? No. Fully understand to the extent of our human capabilities? Yes. Please expand on this...in and of itself it sounds like a cop out.

Drew
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 09:31 AM
Mixing Aikido with other martial arts Guilty Spark General 146 05-04-2008 11:10 AM
Women and Everybody Else in Aikido George S. Ledyard Teaching 113 03-16-2008 08:27 PM
Dilution of aikido eugene_lo General 40 02-07-2006 12:22 PM
Omoto-kyo Theology senshincenter Spiritual 77 12-04-2005 10:50 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:44 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate