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Old 07-12-2007, 08:45 AM   #1401
MM
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Er, no... I didn't say that at all, Mark.

Regards,

Mike
Silly me.

Now I'm confused. Would you care to explain a bit more on Aiki Taiso and silk reeling?

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:49 AM   #1402
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Now I'm confused. Would you care to explain a bit more on Aiki Taiso and silk reeling?
What I said was that "the equivalent to "silk reeling exercisesin Aikido was in the Aiki Taiso". In other words, the exercises that are purely to work the ki/fascia and kokyu/jin are the Aiki Taiso, in Aikido. If you do them correctly. Unfortunately, the Aiki Taiso have become abbreviated warmups using external-mode of strength in too much of Aikido.

Don't forget that specific exercises are nice to build/focus-on specific parts of the body skills, but ultimately everything should be contained, at all times, in your normal practices and usages. Even in walking down the street.

Best.

Mike
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:06 AM   #1403
David Orange
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Ultimately, at the level we're discussing these things, it simply doesn't matter much. My point is that if you boil down correct Aikido and you boil down correct Taiji (or other arts, Chinese or Japanes), after everything boils off, you'll have the same principles left in the bottom of the pan.
Yeah....if you boil it down. If you boil it far enough, you end up with hard tar.

But in their "natural" state, where one is aikido and the other is tai chi, they're still different things.

It's a little like reading in the paper that Mifune beat all his opponents with karate or "kung fu". Well, yesssss....you have to say...."it's all pretty similar," but Mifune used judo.

I don't like someone to say they have no commonalities and I don't like someone to say they're all the same. You can't really control fascia, after all. You can control muscle. Whatever you can do with the fascia is done through the muscles. But that doesn't mean that muscle and fascia are the same.

It's as much a failure of understanding to fail to differentiate as to over-differentiate.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:27 AM   #1404
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Aikido derives from ju-jitsu ryu. But then, as I've mentioned before, the usage of ki, etc., is obviously the same in the Chinese and Japanese martial arts. What appears obvious is that at the higher levels there's no substantive difference in the core principles in Chinese and Japanese martial arts. Are the core principles in Chinese martial arts different from what you do, David? Undoubtedly.

Quote:
From: http://www.judoamerica.com/coaches/kano-kata.shtml

In passing, Gleeson introduces Shao's cosmological structure, making a point of the dichotomy of the static universe into ju (soft) and go (hard) elements. Historically, from the martial arts perspective, this turned out to be less important than the holistic mind-body relationship emphasized by Shao's successor Wang Yang Ming, especially his notion of ju as making the body "soft" or "pliant" to the will 5. This concept was one of the many
faces of ju perceived and embraced by Kano. Gleeson makes this allusion, but never offers these details, and to the extent that it does succeed, it misleads. Having introduced the subject, Gleeson fails to offer more critical, more relevant information from Kano's own martial arts lineage. So the reader is left with a shaded, incomplete picture.

Kano extensively studied the Tenjin Shinyo Ryu Jujutsu which is a fusion of Shin no Shindo Ryu and Yoshin Ryu. Yoshin Ryu (Yo, meaning "willow tree,"and Shin, meaning "heart or spirit") was de-vised by a doctor from Nagasaki named Shirobei Yoshitoki Akiyama. Akiyama had studied battlefield and healing arts in Japan, and is thought to have been accomplished in Jujutsu.
Wishing to extend his knowl-edge, Akiyama went to China to study in the 1600s. There he studied medicine, katsu (life-restoring tech-niques), and various martial arts, especially striking arts and their use as applied to vital areas (kyusho-jutsu). He also studied Taoism, Taoist healing and martial arts, and acu-punc-ture. The centerpiece of the art he created by incorpor-ating his training in China with Japanese methods was a syllabus of 300 techniques. This represented an infusion of the "soft" or "internal" martial arts of China into Japan 6.

The soft or internal arts were known popularly in China as jou-chuan, the characters for which are read in Japanese as "ju-ken," meaning "soft fist." It was common throughout that period to refer to all internal arts by this name. This may have played some role in the eventual popularity of the term jujutsu for these rough-and-tumble martial arts. Kano and others argued that there was nothing "gentle" or "soft" about Jujutsu, and that ju was hardly
the over-riding principle of the arts.The arts were called "ju-arts" or jujutsu because they were based on internal methods and ki (internal energy), not because they employed no strength or force 7.
Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 07-12-2007, 10:49 AM   #1405
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
What I said was that "the equivalent to "silk reeling exercisesin Aikido was in the Aiki Taiso". In other words, the exercises that are purely to work the ki/fascia and kokyu/jin are the Aiki Taiso, in Aikido. If you do them correctly. Unfortunately, the Aiki Taiso have become abbreviated warmups using external-mode of strength in too much of Aikido.

Don't forget that specific exercises are nice to build/focus-on specific parts of the body skills, but ultimately everything should be contained, at all times, in your normal practices and usages. Even in walking down the street.

Best.

Mike
Ah, okay.

Thanks!
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:09 AM   #1406
David Orange
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Robert John wrote: View Post
David, the thing is... Mike's explanations make sense, for someone that has these skills.
Sure he might be postulating, but having silk reeling refer to the worms actual movements to produce silk make sense, as well as the reference to not pulling silk too hard etc etc.
But 1) they don't call it anything similar to "applying" silk and 2) it does resemble the work of reeling silk from the coccoon and 3) there are the many descriptions that support its origin in industrial silk making.

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Robert John wrote: View Post
Asians love to make metaphores. The japanese and chinese are especially guilty of it, even if the metaphore used didn't have any direct relation to the actual skill.
The reeling silk metaphore certainly fits the bill and stinks more of someone simply coming up with a multi layered metaphore
This is true. And I don't see any problem with "silk reeling" referring to "winding the fascia". However, look at some common metaphors in martial arts:

Tiger style: source: tiger movement--source according to Mike Sigman: worm

Crane style: source: crane movement--source according to Mike Sigman: worm movement

Monkey style: source: monkey movement--source according to Mike Sigman: derived from worm movment

Snake style: source: snake movement--source according to Mike Sigman: worm attack movements

dragon style: source: dragon movement--source according to Mike Sigman: worm

Of course, these are all pretty much "external" systems, but it shows pretty clearly that, even in metaphor, the Asians tend to be pretty direct.

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Robert John wrote: View Post
Ark loves to make all sorts of raunchy metaphores when it comes to describing some of the skills. Does that mean that the skills were created while doing it d%#$y??
I'd say it means the skills are pretty close to that activity and are performed in a similar way.

David

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Lao Tzu

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Old 07-12-2007, 11:11 AM   #1407
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Re: Baseline skillset

BTW, speaking of the fascia training as part of breathing exercises (and other things), it's common in a number of Asian disciplines and religious regimens, showing how important these body skills were. In Buddhism and martial-Buddhist training, the idea of strengthening the fascia part of the ki (ki is a number of things; the fascia stuff is only part of it) was important and often shown only to a few proven people within a discipline. Here's some pictures of a Danzan Ryu adept showing part of his accomplishments in the "secrets":

http://www.neijia.com/ICEPICK1.JPG
http://www.neijia.com/ICEPICK2.JPG

FWIW

Mike
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:18 AM   #1408
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

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David Orange wrote: View Post
This is true. And I don't see any problem with "silk reeling" referring to "winding the fascia". However, look at some common metaphors in martial arts:

Tiger style: source: tiger movement--source according to Mike Sigman: worm

Crane style: source: crane movement--source according to Mike Sigman: worm movement

Monkey style: source: monkey movement--source according to Mike Sigman: derived from worm movment

Snake style: source: snake movement--source according to Mike Sigman: worm attack movements

dragon style: source: dragon movement--source according to Mike Sigman: worm

Of course, these are all pretty much "external" systems, but it shows pretty clearly that, even in metaphor, the Asians tend to be pretty direct.
You know, David. Seriously. You should quit while you're behind. Anyone with a moderate understanding of Chinese martial arts or Asian martial arts in general has written you off long since. In some way, each one of your posts is trying to disparage me personally, but the reverse happens when you talk about things that you clearly don't know.

I can see where a beginner would fixate on the idea that the martial arts you named above tend to copy the movement of the animal named, which is slightly true, but it misses the deeper meaning of the type of qi and the way it's utilized that they're referring to, as well. You might be interested to pick out snake-style and tiger-style to pursue if you're ever interested in some very clever ways of training the qi.

Regards,

Mike
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:19 AM   #1409
Erik Johnstone
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
....Here's some pictures of a Danzan Ryu adept showing part of his accomplishments in the "secrets":

[url
wrote:
http://www.neijia.com/ICEPICK1.JPG[/url]
http://www.neijia.com/ICEPICK2.JPG

FWIW

Mike
Very nice. I may be mistaken, but that Danzan-ryu adept looks awfully like Henry Seishiro Okazaki, the Founder of Kodenkan Jujutsu/Danzan-ryu. I've assisted as uke for his daughter, Imi Okazaki-Mullins, at a few seminars. Wonderful lady!

Thanks!

EAJ

Respects,

Erik Johnstone
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:21 AM   #1410
David Orange
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Aikido derives from ju-jitsu ryu. But then, as I've mentioned before, the usage of ki, etc., is obviously the same in the Chinese and Japanese martial arts.
er....you've asserted that.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
What appears obvious is that at the higher levels there's no substantive difference in the core principles in Chinese and Japanese martial arts.
Yes, but it also appears to you that toddlers have no coordination, balance or intention. I have shown that you were guessing and making assumptions.

Your quoted article shows an influence of Chinese internal arts on Japanese jujutsu, but not a direct transmission....if much can be missed between a Chinese teacher and a Chinese student, why would we expect a full transmission from a Chinese master to a Japanese doctor when the Japanese were not well-liked in China?

Further, though aikido does derive from a type of jujutsu, it's very different from the jujutsu that led to judo. It's far more closely associated with the Japanese sword and the specific methods of everything in it are specialized. So while I have never denied an influence of Chinese thinking in Japanese culture and arts, you still have not proven that they are the same or even essentially the same.

If you only had more knowledge of Japan, I would give you more credit on that, but....alas! Earwax!

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 07-12-2007, 11:23 AM   #1411
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Erik Johnstone wrote: View Post
Very nice. I may be mistaken, but that Danzan-ryu adept looks awfully like Henry Seishiro Okazaki, the Founder of Kodenkan Jujutsu/Danzan-ryu. I've assisted as uke for his daughter, Imi Okazaki-Mullins, at a few seminars. Wonderful lady!
Hi Erik:

Please don't mistake me for being blunt or rude (I tend to speak casually like we're sitting around the cracker barrel), since you and I have not really talked on the internet before, but I'd like to ask if you were shown how to train the ki like Okazaki is showing?

The name "Imi Okazaki-Mullins" may be one of the top-ten names I've ever heard. Great name.

Best.

Mike
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:28 AM   #1412
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Yes, but it also appears to you that toddlers have no coordination, balance or intention. I have shown that you were guessing and making assumptions.
Never said that. You made it up by deliberately misconstruing previous remarks.

Mike Sigman
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:28 AM   #1413
Erik Johnstone
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Hi Erik:

Please don't mistake me for being blunt or rude (I tend to speak casually like we're sitting around the cracker barrel), since you and I have not really talked on the internet before, but I'd like to ask if you were shown how to train the ki like Okazaki is showing?

The name "Imi Okazaki-Mullins" may be one of the top-ten names I've ever heard. Great name.

Best.

Mike
No problem, Mike.

To answer your question, no; I was never shown such things, nor did I hear Okazaki-Mullins Sensei discuss them either. She started training with her father as a young girl (along with her sisters), so she may have had or been exposed to ki training. I will certainly have to ask her!

Thanks again for posting the photo!

Respects,

Erik Johnstone
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:35 AM   #1414
David Orange
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
You know, David. Seriously. You should quit while you're behind.
Sure, Mike. Sure.

Don't forget that the one who is last will be first.

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
In some way, each one of your posts is trying to disparage me personally,
Don't take it too hard. It's just an echo of your own comment earlier: "BTW, the "BaDuanJin", the one everyone calles "Eight Pieces of Brocade" isn't about crochetting, either, as it would seem using your logic. But I'm sure you'd argue it to a fare-thee-well, assuming, as usual, that if you don't know it, know one else could possibly know it, so any guess is a good one."

See how that works? You make a comment like that, then squeal like a pig when someone ribs you back. Grow up.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
I can see where a beginner would fixate on the idea that the martial arts you named above tend to copy the movement of the animal named, which is slightly true, but it misses the deeper meaning of the type of qi and the way it's utilized that they're referring to, as well. You might be interested to pick out snake-style and tiger-style to pursue if you're ever interested in some very clever ways of training the qi.
I'm not fixated on anything, but it's clear that Asian metaphors are frequently pretty straightforward. Like comparing "ju" to the yeilding and springing back of bamboo. Fine on the surface, but yeilding much more subtle meanings if you know something about the actual bamboo plant. It doesn't get that strength purely from itself, but largely from its underground connection to the entire grove. And this implies the unseen, the esoteric, occult, time and space, and more. Further, though bamboo may appear to be dead, it may suddenly put out all new leaves, or a shoot will appear to prove that the underground network remains vital.

Tiger style was based on tiger movement.
Snake style was based on snake movement, etc., etc., and "reeling silk" is undoubtedly based on industrial silk manufacture and, particularly, inspired by the unique physical movement of reeling the silk strands from the coccoon to the reel. If you have some links to "quotes" from CXW or anyone else (except Master MS), you could bolster your position by posting them.

David

Last edited by David Orange : 07-12-2007 at 11:38 AM.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:37 AM   #1415
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Erik Johnstone wrote: View Post
I was never shown such things, nor did I hear Okazaki-Mullins Sensei discuss them either. She started training with her father as a young girl (along with her sisters), so she may have had or been exposed to ki training. I will certainly have to ask her!
Hi Erik:

Well, I'd be interested in hearing the comments that are pertinent, if you ever do ask her. On the other hand, the warning flag in my mind (from years of experience) is that often the female child, no matter how dear, is not shown many of the so-called "secrets" for the simple reason that females marry into other families and the lineage could be disrupted, with the husband of a founders daughter (for example) suddenly claiming that he got all the original stuff, and so on. So there's that possibility to consider, also (whether it's germane in this case, I certainly haven't any idea, though).

Incidentally, that photo came from a guy who has done DZR and I'd normally give someone credit, but in this case I don't want to expose him to any factional frowning.

Best.

Mike
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:37 AM   #1416
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Here's some pictures of a Danzan Ryu adept showing part of his accomplishments in the "secrets":

http://www.neijia.com/ICEPICK1.JPG
http://www.neijia.com/ICEPICK2.JPG
I can't make that out. Is that an icepick stabbed through his arm?
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:41 AM   #1417
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Re: Baseline skillset

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I can't make that out. Is that an icepick stabbed through his arm?
Yes. Also, although it's not a definitive factor and we don't know the full particulars of that incident, notice that no blood is seen.

Best.

Mike
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Old 07-12-2007, 11:59 AM   #1418
David Orange
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
David Orange wrote:
Yes, but it also appears to you that toddlers have no coordination, balance or intention. I have shown that you were guessing and making assumptions.

Mike Sigman wrote:
Never said that. You made it up by deliberately misconstruing previous remarks.
As you misconstrued my remarks to indicate that I had said a child has fully developed "silk reeling" and aikido skills.

I've said they have the fundamentals but that those must be cultivated and refined.

David

Last edited by David Orange : 07-12-2007 at 12:06 PM.

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Old 07-12-2007, 12:33 PM   #1419
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Yes. Also, although it's not a definitive factor and we don't know the full particulars of that incident, notice that no blood is seen.

Best.

Mike
One thing I noticed about that picture, Mike, is that the pick is going between the two straps that hold up the vase. I wonder if the straps are working partly like a tourniquette, given the amount of weight presumably being suspended from them. You can see in the second picture that the pick is going through an area where the straps are putting enough pressure on the arm to displace some flesh. In other words, would there have been blood if he just jammed the pick into his arm without the vase? Or if the pick was either distal or proximal to the straps?

Josh
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Old 07-12-2007, 12:40 PM   #1420
David Orange
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Josh Lerner wrote: View Post
In other words, would there have been blood if he just jammed the pick into his arm without the vase? Or if the pick was either distal or proximal to the straps?
Or if he were using internal power or not?

Many people do these body piercing demonstrations with bicycle spokes or similar things without bleeding. I'm more impressed with how relaxed the man looks holding up that metal brazier with his arm.

David

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Lao Tzu

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Old 07-12-2007, 12:47 PM   #1421
David Orange
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Re: Baseline skillset

Also notable: the wall hanging next to him says "kiaijutsu."

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

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Old 07-12-2007, 12:54 PM   #1422
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Josh Lerner wrote: View Post
One thing I noticed about that picture, Mike, is that the pick is going between the two straps that hold up the vase. I wonder if the straps are working partly like a tourniquette, given the amount of weight presumably being suspended from them. You can see in the second picture that the pick is going through an area where the straps are putting enough pressure on the arm to displace some flesh. In other words, would there have been blood if he just jammed the pick into his arm without the vase? Or if the pick was either distal or proximal to the straps?
Hi Josh:

Like I said, it's difficult to tell, not knowing any more than what we can see in the picture. There would be a tearing effect on the upper protrusion of the icepick, but the weight via the cord would tend to clamp down on it. I just don't know.

My point about the blood was an oblique reference to a known phenomenon (even in the West) of the ability to control vascular and subdermal musculature by some people. It may be a relevant factor in the whole qi/ki thing, but then again, it may not be in this particular case that was photographed.

Best.

Mike
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:46 AM   #1423
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Hi Josh:

Like I said, it's difficult to tell, not knowing any more than what we can see in the picture. There would be a tearing effect on the upper protrusion of the icepick, but the weight via the cord would tend to clamp down on it. I just don't know.

My point about the blood was an oblique reference to a known phenomenon (even in the West) of the ability to control vascular and subdermal musculature by some people. It may be a relevant factor in the whole qi/ki thing, but then again, it may not be in this particular case that was photographed.

Best.

Mike
Well, either way, I agree that it is an interesting demo for a early 20th century jujutsu teacher to be doing. The closest thing I can think of in Japanese culture is the shugendo "walking up the ladder of swords" feat, though that has more to do with keeping the pressure of your feet at exactly 90 degrees to the sword blade than it does with toughening the fascia or controlling micromusculature and vasculature. Does anyone else know of similar demonstrations in pre-WWII Japanese MA? It's the kind of thing I would normally associate with Chinese and Indian arts, not Japanese ones.

Josh
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:34 AM   #1424
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Re: Baseline skillset

One of the things that I'm curious about is how much of the Danzan Ryu syllabus was influenced by the fact that it was developed in Hawaii. There was all kinds of mixing and blending going on -- you had Southern Chinese, Okinawan, Filipino and Japanese systems all in one small place, plus the native Hawaiian wrestling stuff from lua.

If you take a look at any of the Hawaiian systems --, Danzan Ryu, K.S. Chow's system, Parker's kenpo, Villabrille Kali, or Kajukenbo are prime examples, you see that there was a lot of cross training and borrowing going on. And in fact, I would argue that on some level all of the top level guys were using qi/ki development exercises. If a person were in a position to speak the language(s) and also see pieces of systems from all the Asian countries I listed, then he or she would certainly have enough to understand how to "composite" your own training, or fill in the gaps. I suspect that's what the founders of these systems were doing in Hawaii. This is based on my own inferences from watching various exponents of said systems over the years.

To answer Josh's question about Japanese systems and body conditioning against sharp objects, there is some information about Fujita Seiko in one of the interviews that Meik Skoss conducted with a shurikenjutsu teacher. I think Fujita was doing stuff like eating glass and body hardening. There's some info here, though I don't know how credible it is:
http://fujitaseiko.tripod.com/

The article descibes a lot of the abilities such as "light body" that have often been associated with Shaolin in fictional literature. I'd be curious to know if the characters were "輕功" because if they are...it would seem to strongly imply that the phrase came from Chinese martial arts terminology.

There are some other notable things in the article: Fujita's participation in various Shugendo esoteric rites, as well as the extreme body conditioning.

People should really think, about what is going on and why there are certain commonalities through various top level guys in koryu, the Shaolin tradition, the big three ''internal'' styles, Okinawan karate, silat and eskrima/kali/arnis. Take a look at Mark Wiley's inteviews with Tatang Ilustrisimo and the videos of Ilustrisimo from the early 90s, the video interviews of Higaonna Morio done in the 70s by the BBC, and some of the written interviews with the Luohan guys from Malyasia that Draeger met. Dig up an interview that Halford Jones (I think) did with Hadji Yasser Tanadjalan from Mindanao, who I think is still coaching in Manila. Try checking out the National Geographic special where the reporter goes to train with Saito Hitohiro, and he makes her stand under a waterfall. Try to find some Shaolin videos of guys from the mainland, like Shi De Yang. Or check them out when they come to the States. Regardless of what some people think, that the monks "only do modern wushu," this is incorrect. I've seen them do sanda (Chinese rules kickboxing) as well, and teach southern conditioning forms, traditional northern forms, modern wushu. No seriously. They are professional martial artists.

Then dig up the third volume of Deity and the Sword and flip through the section that discusses 5 element theory, inyo, and it's relation to what they're doing. I understand the new book published by Koryu Books in close collaboration with Otake Risuke is excellent, though I haven't had a chance to read it yet. Maybe watch this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ch&plin dex=3

Look at the iai portion. See how Otake moves , looking at the left and right axis of his body. Think about the "samurai walking" stuff that we've kicked around here quite a bit. Also, take a look at the spear movements. See how the hands are linked together, and the left and the right sides of the body move around the central axis of the spine. Looks familiar?

Finally after all this, go back and check out Ueshiba's misogi and his various "warmups," and all his spiritual talk.

It should all make more sense in context. With Youtube and the internet, and access to a decent public library, you could do all of this in about 3 months.

Last edited by Tim Fong : 07-13-2007 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 07-13-2007, 08:12 AM   #1425
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Re: Baseline skillset

Good post, Tim. I think most reasonably knowledgeable martial artists in the Pacific Theater are generally aware of the "big picture" scene.

Ki/qi and jin/kokyu-force are the basics, but there are a number of slightly different approaches (hard and soft) to developing them, obscuring the fact to some outsiders that it's all the same thing. Then, when you take the various ways to develop these body skills and you compound them with various approaches to fighting and all the technique permutations, it looks like a complex picture, but everything is still built around the favored approach to the basic body skills.

There's actually not as much variation as I used to think. The logic of these body skills was codified to a fair degree, many centuries ago. Tang Dynasty or before. So a lot of variations are constrained by traditional directives for the best results, Chinese metaphysices being blindly adhered to, and so forth. Over and over again I see the same general directives from the ancient times stuck in some supposedly remote martial art, indicating that much of the logic and training is de rigeur. A good example would be the koryu stuff that Dr. Karl Friday shows in his book Legacies of the Sword includes Five-Element theory and other remarks that are straight out of the traditional tenets that surround ki/kokyu training.

Best.

Mike
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