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Old 01-17-2007, 04:20 PM   #76
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
Yes, but we're talking about a baseline exercise to develop a baseline skill.... (i.e. strength of your structure)....
You do what you train to do. If you train to do resistance to force, then you will resist force when your training is called upon.

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
... a constant push is hardly acceleration.]
Only true if there is resistance to the push.
Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
... developing structural strength and integrity, as part of the baseline skillset -- i.e. body conditioning - using the same basic principles common to all Asian MAs.
You mean, like this one:
Quote:
Lao Tsu wrote:
Whenever you advise a ruler in the way of Tao,
Counsel him not to use force to conquer the universe,
For this would only cause resistance.
Thorn bushes spring up wherever the army has passed.
Lean years follow in the wake of a great war.
Just do what needs to be done.
Never take advantage of power.
Or this one:
Quote:
Lao Tsu wrote:
Under heaven nothing is more soft and yielding than water.
Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing is better.
It has no equal.
The weak can overcome the strong;
The supple can overcome the stiff.
Under heaven everyone knows this,
Yet no one puts it into practice.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 01-17-2007, 04:48 PM   #77
eyrie
 
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Re: Baseline skillset

Oh you know, that's why the exercise is done in a very relaxed manner...

So you can "be like water, my friend... be like water...."

Ignatius
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Old 01-17-2007, 05:10 PM   #78
eyrie
 
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
And incidentally, I think the best way to start learning is with a very light bokken. Until you can move in this correct manner, using weights will only trigger the use of "normal" shoulder-muscle, etc. As you develop this kind of power you can use suburitos, tanden bo's, etc.
Mike, can you comment on the length of the weapon, and what would your recommendation be for those starting learning?

Ignatius
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Old 01-17-2007, 05:52 PM   #79
raul rodrigo
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
There are a couple of cute store-and-release tricks that are done (it's part of the reason why the strength is said to rely on the big toe).
There it is again, the "power comes from the big toe" idea that Shioda hinted at but didnt explain. Would you be willing to expound on that a little further now, Mike, or would it be too far from the theme of baseline skills?


best,


RAUL
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Old 01-18-2007, 06:46 AM   #80
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
There it is again, the "power comes from the big toe" idea that Shioda hinted at but didnt explain. Would you be willing to expound on that a little further now, Mike, or would it be too far from the theme of baseline skills?


best,
RAUL
I'm just rambling here and have no clue about it ... but ...

If you want to physically affect someone's balance, one of the easiest ways is to move them out over their little toe. It has the least strength and the way the feet are shaped, it doesn't have a corner to allow for strength. Rather, it sort of rolls.

So, in opposite, the big toe has the strength. If you physically want to affect balance, you do not go out over the big toe. Also, the big toe is sort of the point of a triangle in your feet. (Hmmm ... can this be the triangle from circle, square, triangle that Ueshiba talked about?)

You could view the big toe as being a connection point to the ground, I guess.

Anyway, just rambling ... I'm no expert in this by any means. Even my own inflated imagination.

Mark
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Old 01-18-2007, 07:17 AM   #81
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
There it is again, the "power comes from the big toe" idea that Shioda hinted at but didnt explain. Would you be willing to expound on that a little further now, Mike, or would it be too far from the theme of baseline skills?
Hi Raul:
I just tried to think of a quick way to explain what it is, but it's tricky without the understanding of the baseline skills that lead up to it. Let's just say that it is one of the supplemental ways to store and use power. It's one of the choices of things you want to specialize in (it's not a major thing in what I do, although I use it a little bit) and it's commonly considered a derivative of Buddhist-oriented martial training. There are even variations of how to approach it, but I feel very sure that in the case of Ueshiba he got this approach from one of the sword arts, since that's where it's normally found.

Best,

Mike
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Old 01-18-2007, 07:52 AM   #82
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Baseline skillset

Gozo Shioda speaks of the big toe in most of his books, I think it worth while to run through them just to see what he says. Abe Sensei also speaks of this in similar ways...Gernot could probably contribute a great deal here.

Gernot? GERNOT????

Best,
Ron

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Old 01-18-2007, 08:34 AM   #83
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Re: Baseline skillset

What Shioda says in Total Aikido. p 15, is: "The 'trick' to concentrated power is in the big toe. When we fix the big toe to the floor, power comes into the hips. To that power, you can then add the acceleration of the "spring" action of the knee. If the movements are done altogether, a very powerful force is developed. Because of this, developing the big toes through for example, kneeling techniques is very important."

So that was where I was coming from. Because of what Shioda wrote, I began to pay attention to the feeling during funekogi undo of my weight transferring from one big toe to the other. Over time it became possible to manifest some unexpected strength moving forward (eg, doing kaiten nage without stepping forward for the throw and just using the funekogi feeling to move uke) and more recently, backward.

I suppose my question is: am I completely deluded about this kind of movement meaning anything in terms of developing internal strength? Is this any part of what Shioda was referring to?

Thanks for your inputs above, Mike. Mike's answer, if I understand him correctly, seems to be that the developing of the "big toe dynamics" is a little outside of the area of baseline skills. Or else its too complicated to go into at this point.


best,


RAUL
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Old 01-18-2007, 08:49 AM   #84
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
....., if I understand him correctly, seems to be that the developing of the "big toe dynamics" is a little outside of the area of baseline skills. Or else its too complicated to go into at this point.
Well it's one of those things that in order to understand what's happening, you'd have to already have acquired some jin/kokyu skills and some development of the "ki" structure in the sense of the fascia. If you haven't developed that latter all over the body, you can't get the full benefit of what he's talking about. There is a somewhat incomplete, but not too shabby treatement of this kind of power in Lam Kam Chuen's book "The Way of Power". He doesn't take the power train all the way to the big toe (IIRC), but he has the major elements laid out.

But even if you read it, if you haven't developed some of the body strengths through breathing, etc., the real light-bulb won't go on.

Best,

Mike
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Old 01-18-2007, 08:50 AM   #85
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Baseline skillset

Well, I don't think it's outside of what I would consider...maybe it's not the purest or even best way though. From your description, it sounds as if you've found a good way to bring it into your practice. If you watch some of Gozo Shioda's demos, you'll notice how he sinks his weight into a very focused spot on the ground, kind of rebounding, adding in the "spring of the knees"...I think this combines the power of the ground with the gravitational weight of the body to produce a dramatic effect on his partner. By keeping the upper body relaxed, he transmits this power through to uke. Very simplified explanation by someone who can't do any of this very well yet.

I think Mike's approach is probably somewhat different, and I think Kancho's approach is probably more complicated than my explanation as well...

Best,
Ron

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Old 01-18-2007, 08:57 AM   #86
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Re: Baseline skillset

Once again, its the old chicken and egg problem. Or what someone once said about jazz: "If you have to ask what it is, you aint never going to find out." I suppose thats the nature of the beast.
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:15 AM   #87
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Quote:
Paul Rodrigo wrote:
There it is again, the "power comes from the big toe" idea that Shioda hinted at but didnt explain. Would you be willing to expound on that a little further now, Mike, or would it be too far from the theme of baseline skills?
I just tried to think of a quick way to explain what it is, but it's tricky without the understanding of the baseline skills that lead up to it. Let's just say that it is one of the supplemental ways to store and use power. ... It's one of the choices of things you want to specialize in
Shioda explained it and illustrated it as shown below. He said the big toe was the key to centering power (chushin ryoku) which is the necessary prerequisite for focussed power (shuchu ryoku) or breath power (kokyu ryoku).

Mike suggested:
Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Someone pushes you and you let that push go unimpeded (as much as possible) through you to the back leg. That would be simple grounding. If you keep their push lined up with the ground while you go backward and down a couple of inches (to allow you to "store" in the leg, waist, and hopefully tanden joints) and then you return directly into their push
Mike thus advocates in his "basic skillset" exercise precisely the reverse of what Shioda was talking about with the Big Toe chushin power, which is on the front (irimi) leg.

Shioda even shows it on the back cover of Total Aikido:
http://books.google.com/books?id=1jo...+%22big+toe%22

He makes clear in the the illustration and text of "Dynamic Aikido" (p. 82) the centering power in the big toe is on the forward foot in the direction of the irimi, NOT in the rear "grounding" footand in the direction opposite the irimi of the technique, which as Mike suggests, is directly in-line with the attacking force .

http://books.google.com/books?vid=IS...i63Cm-wB7pkWEM

The illustration and narrative specify the right (forward) big toe as the focus of power, even when performing ikkyo urawaza, as depicted.

I very often have to correct students whose irimi in their technique is incomplete because they stop with the feet about shoulder width apart in hanmi and weight fairly evenly distributed. By showing them how to, just as Shioda depicts, rotate the weight from the front heel to the ball of the front big toe (drawing the rear leg up under, as the hip pulls it forward). They gain an additional six inches of extension forward -- with a total movement of the body.

Most importantly it is performed (as Shioda illustrates) without any significant rear leg spring or push (as Mike suggests). It is a motion of the whole body (weight transfer - taijuuido) pivoting dropping (slightly) forward and then rising to center itself over the forward ball of the big toe. The rear leg merely travels sliding along the ground.

It also raises uke's connection a further two inches or so and the tanden travels in an rising, forward arc, like extending from chudan to seigan with the sword. It is the exact same mechanics for the hip and torso as is applied with the wrist and forearm in seated kokyu dosa.

Chushin weight distribution is on the rear leg big toe in situations where the rear hip is the one making the irimi. In a gyakku munetsuki iriminage, for instance, the forward leg and hip are in line with, but giving way to, the attack, while the rear hip is initially advancing in irimi Even though the rear leg may not change position at all, its weight distribution changes from heel to toe. Thus, the rear big toe is momentarily the focus as the center point of the irimi/tenkan in receiving the attack.

The rear leg is off-line and merely forms the pivot. It cannot transmit reaction force to the attack from the ground. If it were bearing the force of attack with ground reaction, the hip would have to be in-line and would not be free to turn forward in irimi. As soon as the receiving irimi/tenkan is made, the reverse irimi/tenkan begins on the forward hip and leg with the same sort of weight transfer described above. The ball of the big toe on the front (irimi) foot again becomes the focus to make the throw.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:18 AM   #88
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Re: Baseline skillset

Lets back up a bit. If Shioda didn't the exposure to the internal Chinese arts that Mike S and the others have, how did he develop this understanding of the big toe? Through misogi breathing? through funekogi and furitama? The eyewitness accounts of the Kobukan dojo that I know of describe years of hard physical training, and very little by way of internal development. I know that some later deshi like Tohei and Tada and a few others went to the Tempukai, so their understanding of internal power is more advanced. Did Shioda go? Did he have some internal training that we are not aware of?

RAUL
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:27 AM   #89
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Baseline skillset

I agree (for the most part) with Erick's assesment of the forward movement, focus and weight that is a basic for Yoshinkan. Mixing that approach with some of the specifics that Mike gives is somewhat problematic...but to suggest that a difference in which foot you weight negates the connection between the skillsets is kind of silly, in my opinion. There are styles of aikido that are very powerfull that don't focus the weight in the same manner as in the Yoshinkan. Since I cannot conclude that "our" way is necessarily better than "theirs"...I must then conclude that Erick doesn't quite understand the topic.

Shioda is rumored to have had some instruction outside of Ueshiba in Daito ryu...I cannot say how much, and this is often debated. But it should be noted that his licenses from Ueshiba were in Daito ryu, and that Daito ryu and the Kobukan dojo, are said to have invested heavily in this kind of internal skill set. Hard physical training does not contradict the internal training.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:37 AM   #90
ian
 
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Re: Baseline skillset

Absolute minimum skill set for our dojo:

1. good bokken cutting (to develop ability to drop weight properly and to direct power through hands using hips)

2. ikkyo (irimi & tenkan)

3. irimi-nage

=====
I believe you can practise aikido fully, with just the above. If you want me to be more specific about the 'skills', I'd say that's difficult. Really the techniques are there to develop the skills (rather than being an end in themselves). Don't want to do into the fundamentals of balance, extension etc... (as been done before).

Ian

P.S. dynamic is a really interesting word. A previous sensei said to me years ago,'just be more dynamic' and instantly I was better ('till I forgot to be more dynamic!). I think it can be translated roughly as 'don't overthink it, just do what you want in a spontaneous and energetic way'. All this 'try to relax', 'use the one-point', 'drop your hips', 'imagine energy flow' I believe can actually stiffle the dynamism of aikido.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:38 AM   #91
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Shioda is rumored to have had some instruction outside of Ueshiba in Daito ryu...I cannot say how much, and this is often debated. But it should be noted that his licenses from Ueshiba were in Daito ryu, and that Daito ryu and the Kobukan dojo, are said to have invested heavily in this kind of internal skill set. Hard physical training does not contradict the internal training.

I didn't assume there was a contradiction between the two, Ron. I'm just trying to find a door into learning the baseline skill set that I can walk through. Mikes answer seems to be that his version of internal power requires direct hands on contact and is strongly rooted in the Chinese arts, in ways that cant (or shouldnt?) be conveyed on this forum. So my next question is: is there another way in? Can I buy the DVDs of, say, Tetsuzan Kuroda and get ideas? Does some branch of Yoshinkan (Chida, perhaps) preserve the training methods for the big toe dynamics and so should I get myself ASAP to Yoshinkan hombu, where an acquaintance of mine is a shidoin? This is the kind of thing I am looking for.

Last edited by raul rodrigo : 01-18-2007 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:49 AM   #92
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
I agree (for the most part) with Erick's assesment of the forward movement, focus and weight that is a basic for Yoshinkan. Mixing that approach with some of the specifics that Mike gives is somewhat problematic..... There are styles of aikido that are very powerfull that don't focus the weight in the same manner as in the Yoshinkan. Since I cannot conclude that "our" way is necessarily better than "theirs"...I must then conclude that Erick doesn't quite understand the topic.

Shioda is rumored to have had some instruction outside of Ueshiba in Daito ryu...
I think you may have an exaggerated sense of the difference between "ours" "yours" or "theirs" in approaches on this point, Ron. The totality of my exposure to Yoshinkan is about six or eight classes over a two year period in Yokosuka while on periodic Navy instructor travel. Enough only to intrigue as to the distinctions of focus, really. I don't think I picked up these observations there. Shioda's teachings on this are consistent with what I did receive elsewhere.

The strongest focus in my training for the aspect of irimi I describe would have been my Iwama teacher, Bernice Tom in San Diego. Most of my training has been Iwama and ASU, with Federation Aikikai in college and thrown in here and there along the way, including about seven months (during a lawschool scheduling conflict) with Chiba back in '95-ish. Nothing was really different in terms of this aspect of irimi anywhere I trained. The only wrinkle is the focus on the irimi side of the techniques, which may be front or rear, or change several times, allowing for techniques without regard to particular kamae, which is more from the ASU side.

Hitohiro Saito still teaches this, and Bernice Sensei was uchi deshi to his father. "Your body pivots around the big toe of your front foot." Interview here (down where it asks about "fundamentals of training"): http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=95

Last edited by Erick Mead : 01-18-2007 at 10:04 AM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 01-18-2007, 09:57 AM   #93
raul rodrigo
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Re: Baseline skillset

I think the real question is how do you get from the basics ("your body pivots around the big toe of your front foot") to the explosive power release that we see Morihei and Shioda doing in response to a shove from uke? They do it so sharp and hard that it's way above what you see even from a "run of the mill" 6th dan.

Mike talks about store-and-release tricks with the toe. What are those? Do Iwama ryu or ASU teach that? I am not aware of Saito making a similar statement about the big toe as power source.
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Old 01-18-2007, 10:13 AM   #94
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
I think you may have an exaggerated sense of the difference between "ours" "yours" or "theirs" in approaches on this point, Ron. The totality of my exposure to Yoshinkan is about six or eight classes over a two year period in Yokosuka while on periodic Navy instructor travel. Enough only to intrigue as to the distinctions of focus, really. I don't think I picked up these observations there.
Perhaps...some stress the difference in terms of methodology only, and I don't necessarily disagree with that. But there are differences in focus, kamae, buki waza, blocking vs no blocking (really should be thought of as yokeru, in both cases), hip posture...all kinds of things. It is a complicated subject, and not easily discussed without specific variances in mind, as well as how individual teachers, apart from "style" and organization, seek to grow their students along the specific path the instructor invisions.

I have *some* experience with Kokikai, Iwama, ASU, Mainline Daito ryu and independants in Aikido and Daito ryu. My main exposure is to Doshinkan aikido as taught by Yukio Utada. While an IYAF dojo, there is more diversity in the Yoshinkai than some might think.

Best,
Ron

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Old 01-18-2007, 10:28 AM   #95
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Baseline skillset

Hi Raul,
Quote:
didn't assume there was a contradiction between the two, Ron. I'm just trying to find a door into learning the baseline skill set that I can walk through. Mikes answer seems to be that his version of internal power requires direct hands on contact and is strongly rooted in the Chinese arts, in ways that cant (or shouldnt?) be conveyed on this forum.
As I said in the post to Erick, it's a complicated subject, and it doesn't lend itself to easy answers. Mike offers a few different viewpoints and I believe that you can use them to enhance your own, even if there are slightly different methods to bring them to fruition. My opinion only. Trying to convey these on a forum, without physical feedback, is indeed tough. I have a hard time picking stuff like this up in person, because I'm so stiff. So even in person, for some of us, it is difficult.

Quote:
So my next question is: is there another way in? Can I buy the DVDs of, say, Tetsuzan Kuroda and get ideas? Does some branch of Yoshinkan (Chida, perhaps) preserve the training methods for the big toe dynamics and so should I get myself ASAP to Yoshinkan hombu, where an acquaintance of mine is a shidoin? This is the kind of thing I am looking for.
I would say DVDs and books are good supplimental material...they give good hints, things to explore, things to be aware of in your training. But without the training...not much help, in my opinion.

Kuroda Sensei, is by all accounts, an excellent resource in this area. In the Yoshinkan...again, there are more differences in movement than commonly thought. My teacher and Chida Sensei came up at the same time, and know each other quite well...but their bodies are very different, and they each have distinct differences in their body movements. What they do fits together for each of them as a whole...I could not adopt Chida Sensei's movements and structure 100 % and do Utada Sensei's waza with them per se. They are both too highly developed for that. Same with Inoue Sensei...or any of the other top instructors, in my opinion.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 01-18-2007, 10:30 AM   #96
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Shioda explained it and illustrated it as shown below. He said the big toe was the key to centering power (chushin ryoku) which is the necessary prerequisite for focussed power (shuchu ryoku) or breath power (kokyu ryoku).

Mike suggested: Mike thus advocates in his "basic skillset" exercise precisely the reverse of what Shioda was talking about with the Big Toe chushin power, which is on the front (irimi) leg.
So now you're going to confuse my discussion about learning basics with doing this thing Raul is talking about.
Quote:
He makes clear in the the illustration and text of "Dynamic Aikido" (p. 82) the centering power in the big toe is on the forward foot in the direction of the irimi, NOT in the rear "grounding" footand in the direction opposite the irimi of the technique, which as Mike suggests, is directly in-line with the attacking force .
But notice... I didn't suggest any such thing. Your problem is that you're trying to critique something, once again, about which you don't have a clue, Erick.
Quote:
Most importantly it is performed (as Shioda illustrates) without any significant rear leg spring or push (as Mike suggests). It is a motion of the whole body (weight transfer - taijuuido) pivoting dropping (slightly) forward and then rising to center itself over the forward ball of the big toe. The rear leg merely travels sliding along the ground.
You're teaching students this and you somehow think it's what Shioda was referring to? Your real problem is that you interpret everything in terms of what you already know, assuming that it is impossible for there to be anything you don't know. You're pretty far off. Which, as I've mentioned, is your business.... the problem is that you're teaching people this stuff you're making up.

Regards,

Mike sigman
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Old 01-18-2007, 10:35 AM   #97
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
I have *some* experience with Kokikai, Iwama, ASU, Mainline Daito ryu and independants in Aikido and Daito ryu. My main exposure is to Doshinkan aikido as taught by Yukio Utada. While an IYAF dojo, there is more diversity in the Yoshinkai than some might think.
I left out USAF both Eastern and what was Western regions. As well as the tradition from Yamaguchi Sensei as taught through the AKI.

Mr. S (Staphane? I never get his name correct unless I'm looking at it) makes a good point about having too wide a base of instructors...each even within a style has a specific path in mind...mix and match can get very complicated, and completely miss the point, as well as leave gaping holes for the development of openings.

It's one reason to be very carefull with what you do where...and one reason it would be good for an understanding of this topic. You could then shape your training in this "baseline stuff" around the specific methods appropriate for your teacher's path.

Best,
Ron

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 01-18-2007 at 10:39 AM.

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 01-18-2007, 10:36 AM   #98
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
Lets back up a bit. If Shioda didn't the exposure to the internal Chinese arts that Mike S and the others have, how did he develop this understanding of the big toe? Through misogi breathing? through funekogi and furitama? The eyewitness accounts of the Kobukan dojo that I know of describe years of hard physical training, and very little by way of internal development. I know that some later deshi like Tohei and Tada and a few others went to the Tempukai, so their understanding of internal power is more advanced. Did Shioda go? Did he have some internal training that we are not aware of?
That's a good question. I can't do anything but speculate, but this thing you're talking about is probably a carry-over from Japanese fencing. You can actually do it with either leg, but I suspect in the Japanese usage it originally developed as something from the forward-shifted fencing posture that keeps the sword as far forward as possible in order that the front leg, etc., can't be attacked.

In a way, what you're asking is part of the "bounce" mechanism of both Ueshiba and Master Sum in those 2 videos. As you notice in the videos, it is not leg-specific, but from experience I'd say that the smartest thing to do is start learning it with the back leg.

Regards,

Mike
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Old 01-18-2007, 10:40 AM   #99
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
I think the real question is how do you get from the basics ("your body pivots around the big toe of your front foot") to the explosive power release that we see Morihei and Shioda doing in response to a shove from uke? They do it so sharp and hard that it's way above what you see even from a "run of the mill" 6th dan.

Mike talks about store-and-release tricks with the toe. What are those? Do Iwama ryu or ASU teach that? I am not aware of Saito making a similar statement about the big toe as power source.
The power that I have learned to generate is far more about manipulations of centering and extension per what I have learned primarily in Saito's and Saotome's lineage than the "spring" potentials that Mike speaks of. Which is one of the reasons I engage these discussions.

The primary uses of that power are precisely to dissipate his energy as much as possible without opposiing it and to return what is left to him. Obviously, the more skilled I am in doing this the less of the energy "meal" that he set out for me is left over for him to have to "eat" when I leave the party. I was taught to use the energy manipulation advantage that these prinicples give me to make my effort in technique as small as possible, rather than to make it as powerful as possible to overcome his power directly. Certainly, one can equally use these principles to oppose force on force, i.e. -- resistance, but that is not Aikido as I understand it.

The Dark Side is very inviting ...

Extension and centering, irimi/tenkan, are all about changing centers and altering the radius or direction of turn(s). My understanding of this in angular momentum terms shows a square term on the inertial radius for conserving angular momentum. Reducing that radius (skater-spin) is what increases angular velocity at a constant momentum. There is also a square term for angular velocity in the kinetic energy equation. Extending that radius dissipates energy, slowing the velocity by the inverse square, and slowing the vleocity reduces energy by the inverse square.

That is a huge "force multiplier" as my army buddies are wont to say. I do not know of anything based on spring potentials that can match compounded square terms for kinetic energy magnification (or dissipation), which do exist in the extension and centering mechanics of irimi/tenkan.

And you can see from this perspective that is the small stuff that is so devilishly powerful, so quick, so hard to perceive (and to control consistently), as would be expected from this mechanical perspective, and so subject to physical misinterpretation because of the inherently small scale of the most powerful actions. "Movement in stillness" is a turn shortened down to virtually zero radius and a therefore, a huge angular velocity spike (think of the moving shrinking loop of a whip going supersonic). But it is precisely the same principle and skill set (just a different scale or compounded mode of action) that operates the otehr way as well, so seemingly without effort to evaporate the energy of attack with the same basic irimi/tenkan movement.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 01-18-2007, 10:50 AM   #100
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Back to the baseling stuff. Everything is going to be a function of the basic skills and how well someone can do them. If, for instance, someone is trying to do sudden-power releases like Shioda or Ueshiba and they don't have well-formed ability to take a push from all directions, etc., their power will reflect it. If someone wants to release power suddenly, but they never developed the body with drills like Akuzawa's (or other approaches), breathing, and "moving with the whole body" (like they do in the Ki-Society baseline), their power won't be well-formed either.

Sudden, crisp power is cool, but you should wait until you get the baseling skills going before you start worrying about "how to do" these more advanced things. It's not fully so much "how to do" but "how well your body has developed the new skills" that is important.

I'm watching people write about the "spring in the knee", for instance, in the Big Toe Discussion, and there's a way to train and condition the leg which is far different from what people are thinking about in the way they're mentioning the spring of the knee. It takes a while to train the body (including the knee area) to do some of these things the way they're meant to be done, so we probably should be talking more about the baseline skills since they're the road to most of these skills, not just "how do you do that trick?".

Regards,

Mike
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