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Old 02-09-2007, 07:53 AM   #501
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Baseline skillset

Nah, that's just Neil channelling Toby...



b,
r

Ron Tisdale
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Old 02-09-2007, 07:55 AM   #502
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
And that damn Mike he ain;t no spring chicken either. He's damn near gray as me. Did I say damn kids already?
You can only be young once, Dennis, but you can be immature forever.

I like the way Rob posts. He's blunt and he tells the truth. Heck, I'm a lot older than 50, Dennis, but I never worry about something I can't control. And when I was Rob's age, I thought exactly the same way about age as he did.... it comes with the territory.

Mike
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Old 02-09-2007, 07:56 AM   #503
Dennis Hooker
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Very true, Rob, as anyone with any exerience knows. You gotta meet the guy and feel him.



Mike

You two have summed it up I believe. I do like brevity that makes the point.

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Old 02-09-2007, 08:32 AM   #504
Dennis Hooker
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
You can only be young once, Dennis, but you can be immature forever.

I like the way Rob posts. He's blunt and he tells the truth. Heck, I'm a lot older than 50, Dennis, but I never worry about something I can't control. And when I was Rob's age, I thought exactly the same way about age as he did.... it comes with the territory.

Mike

Mike I love getting old. It beats the hell out of the alternative. I will get old as long as I can, hopefully with a since of humor and a touch of immaturity which will leave a little growing room. .

Dennis Hooker: (DVD) Zanshin and Ma-ai in Aikido
https://www.createspace.com/238049

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Old 02-09-2007, 10:00 AM   #505
Eddie deGuzman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
Thanks for rephrasing the question Raul.

Yes, Eddie... "moving" and "different" how? Vague descriptions mean squat to me...

The example I used clearly illustrates that "different" can mean different things... whether one is moving or not.

What I find odd is the need to justify your mat time to me, when it was neither requested nor relevant to my question.

What would be more helpful to the discussion is, if you could not only do what was illustrated in my example, but also explain how it works...
Iggy, Sheesh, a fella can't even say "Hey, that happened to me" without being asked to prove it AND on the internet, no less. Apparently vague descriptions don't mean squat to you. Sorry I presumed more.

Sure, I can do what I think you're describing. And to describe it, my perspective is that your perspective is wrong. You did not "connect" with his arm, he connected with yours.

If my experience bothers you, forget I mentioned it. BTW, before you snipe at me for NOT answering your question, you might want to ask one first. There is no question there, dude. I'd call that OVERextension!

To phrase it a little clearer, I do aikido differently now. And Raul, different how, would be better.

AND AS EVERYONE HAS ALREADY SAID, it makes no difference until someone feels it. So, I guess we're all gonna have to hold hands someday. And if that's what it boils down to, then it makes no sense to say one can do something, and it makes no sense to ask someone if they can do what another person did and then ask them to describe it. Well, that pretty much ends this entire discussion on a baseline skillset.
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Old 02-09-2007, 10:12 AM   #506
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
Mike I love getting old. It beats the hell out of the alternative. I will get old as long as I can, hopefully with a since of humor and a touch of immaturity which will leave a little growing room. .
Well, I wish I enjoyed it as much as you do, Dennis, but I hate seeing my faculties decline. My sex drive has dropped so much that I'm down to only doing it 5 times a night instead of the usual 7. On the plus side, that leaves me more time to workout.

I've been able to gradually become more spiritual and have been able to conquer some of my bad habits like fightin' and cursing. Godamn did I used to curse!

The really nice thing about gettin older is that nobody can kid you about it.... if they do, they remember it sheepishly a few years later and wish they hadn't been such an obvious chump.

Best.

Mike
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:34 PM   #507
ChrisMoses
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Robert John wrote:
Words say a lot though. And anyone that's called me out hasn't made me eat them so far
Well that's as good a segue as any...

I hadn't checked in on this thread in a while, and I admit to skimming about the last 2/3s... I wanted to make a few points however.

First, let me offer some distinctions that I think are being ignored or perhaps that people are just unaware of. The usual disclaimers apply: you might do things differently, I haven't felt everyone, I don't know everything, terminology may differ, warning generalizations ahead! Ok, now that that's done. I believe that aiki movements can be generally sorted into active and passive connections. My experience has been that (at least within the Aikido circles I'm most familiar) that passive connection is the dominant paradigm, both in terms of philosophy and practical mat time. Passive connection emphasizes relaxation, sensitivity and leading. The way most people practice this ignores the necessity of any kind of fajing as I currently understand it. Kokyu (the best aiki term I can think of to describe fajing) exists in this context as a way to relax more and more to allow the encounter to happen. This often leads to the idea of musubi, of blending with the encounter. This isn't exclusive to aikido, if you look at the Roppokai, they're doing the same thing within Daito ryu. On the other side of the coin, you have active connection aiki, the kind that feels like you ran into a brick wall or got blasted with a firehose. Hopefully we've all experienced this kind of training, where as uke, we feel oddly compelled to move and fall a certain way. The stuff that Kondo Sensei demonstrates of Daito ryu is a great example of this kind of connection.

Before I met and started training with Neil, while I'd felt the active connection stuff, I don't think anyone had ever told me how to do it, or that they were even doing it. Then after meeting with Rob and Ark, I found a whole system for developing the internal skills necessary to have this kind of connection without the loss of sensitivity that comes from simply muscling through someone. Often, when people were doing active connection, they would explain what they were doing in terms that led one to use passive connection. This kind of aiki depends on powerful kokyu/fajing. It's critical that it be done right so that this kind or unstoppable power can be delivered with maximum efficiency and disorientation to uke. So if you primarily do passive connection stuff, what Rob, Mike and Dan are talking about will generally not make a lot of sense and will likely not sound like aikido. Here's what confuses me about aikido: *every* super-senior mucky muck in aikido that has tossed my sorry butt around has used TONS of active connection, such that I felt powerless to stop their throw, and yet, almost none of them teach how to do this, but rather seem to focus almost exclusively on passive connection. As a result, almost all of their students, who are now teachers in their own rights, continue to focus almost exclusively on the passive connection stuff. Long story short, I now believe the stuff Ark's teaching is (or at least can be) the baseline skills that explain how all those senior Aiki folks did what they did, but only if you give up the notion that passive connection is the only thing going. Mind you, I'm not saying that active connection is the only thing going either, I realize that a combination of the two is critical. Ark was able to easily transition from passive to active connection as smoothly as he did (I believe) because when you get these skills down, internally *you as nage* aren't changing much internally, but rather you're just changing the direction of your focus. Even when you're whisper soft, your internal structure is sprung *not flaccid* so that the moment that kokyu/fajing becomes most advantageous, you simply release it outward. Now from the other side, it feels like nothing, nothing, nothing, EVERYTHING! If however internally you're doing nothing as nage, you have to start something to generate power, and that gets telegraphed a mile away. That's one of the reasons that in the second video posted, the receiver gets bounced off so hard, there's no wind up or opportunity to absorb the power release.

There's a belief in aikido that when you (as the attacker) exert a lot of pressure/force on nage, you somehow weaken yourself. This is only true if you don't understand how to generate this force without coming out of your own base. I was at an aikido seminar recently with a senior aikido teacher who I greatly respect, both personally and martially. We were doing a kind of standing kokyuho exercise, and because I was using some of the internal stuff I've been playing with recently, my partner was having some trouble moving me. I should be clear that I was backed WAY off from the level of resistance I'm used to. The instructor came over to show that "the harder I resisted, the easier I was to throw." He assumed the role of nage and asked me to resist, so I resisted very hard using the rear cross and some of the dynamics of the push-out exercise (at least as I understand it now…). Once he felt enough pressure, he said, "good," and then went to do the kokyu to show how much easier I was to move. As he pressed into me, I felt him rebound and then he had to shuffle step backwards a couple inches to catch his balance. This is someone who has decades of training over me. He made quick eye contact and I shifted to a more typical muscular (meaning more what he was expecting) resistance and he finished the move. There is no way I could have done that six months ago.

That's good enough to start. On a related note, Rob John was good enough to agree to do a workshop here in Seattle on 2/17 while he's in town. There are a few spots open (space is limited), so if you'd like to attend, shoot me a PM or an email and I can give you more specifics.

Chris Moses
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Old 02-09-2007, 12:58 PM   #508
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Christian Moses wrote:
..... The instructor came over to show that "the harder I resisted, the easier I was to throw." He assumed the role of nage and asked me to resist, so I resisted very hard using the rear cross and some of the dynamics of the push-out exercise (at least as I understand it now…). Once he felt enough pressure, he said, "good," and then went to do the kokyu to show how much easier I was to move. As he pressed into me, I felt him rebound and then he had to shuffle step backwards a couple inches to catch his balance. This is someone who has decades of training over me. He made quick eye contact and I shifted to a more typical muscular (meaning more what he was expecting) resistance and he finished the move. There is no way I could have done that six months ago.....
Not to belabour the point, Chris, what you described was not resistance really (although you could refine it even more with practice). At the point that his own force made him rebound, you effectively weren't resisting but adding to his own force... i.e., "blending with his force". You became nage and responded to his attack.... you could even done a technique as a smoothe transition an it would simply have been good Aikido.

Best.

Mike
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Old 02-09-2007, 01:37 PM   #509
ChrisMoses
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Not to belabour the point, Chris, what you described was not resistance really (although you could refine it even more with practice).
Good point Mike, I was using the more common terminology. I much prefer terms like 'engagement' over 'resistance'. They imply a much more dynamic relationship.

Chris Moses
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Old 02-09-2007, 02:01 PM   #510
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Baseline skillset

Nice post Chris. I'm a little currious...did the instructor make any mention of what happened privately? It's nice to see that he didn't try to trash you (some I've heard of would) for that...but I guess what I'd like to see is "hey, that was cool, can you do it this way?", or "can you teach me that?"...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 02-09-2007, 02:39 PM   #511
ChrisMoses
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Nice post Chris. I'm a little currious...did the instructor make any mention of what happened privately? It's nice to see that he didn't try to trash you (some I've heard of would) for that...but I guess what I'd like to see is "hey, that was cool, can you do it this way?", or "can you teach me that?"...

Best,
Ron
Didn't try and trash me, or follow up with an, "Oh yeah?" throw. Didn't ask about it either, so I'm not sure what his experience of it was. It was a really fun seminar though.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
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Old 02-09-2007, 02:45 PM   #512
Dennis Hooker
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Christian Moses wrote:
Didn't try and trash me, or follow up with an, "Oh yeah?" throw. Didn't ask about it either, so I'm not sure what his experience of it was. It was a really fun seminar though.
I love those little happy moments in class. I will usually stop class and ask folks to watch it done again. Hopefully the person can do it again. Sometimes though it's just part of the flow of class. I am glad the teacher took it well. Good example for others. Sometimes when I see someone doing something very well I will ask them to demonstrate it to the class. Most folks don't mind.

Dennis Hooker: (DVD) Zanshin and Ma-ai in Aikido
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:57 PM   #513
raul rodrigo
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Eddie deGuzman wrote:
To phrase it a little clearer, I do aikido differently now. And Raul, different how, would be better.

I wasnt trying to cast doubt on what you can do, Eddie, just asking for clarification. my apologies if you felt otherwise.
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Old 02-09-2007, 06:04 PM   #514
eyrie
 
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Re: Baseline skillset

Great post Chris...

Ignatius
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Old 02-09-2007, 06:12 PM   #515
statisticool
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Eddie deGuzman wrote:
What I find odd is that you allow Mike his insight after coming to Japan and feeling this technique yet disallow the nearly 23 years I have on the mat, the last thirteen and counting of which have been here in Japan.
As far as I'm concerned and I think most people are concerned, 23 years on the mat is much more impressive in terms of mastery of an art than someone, anyone, who theorizes about this and that and 'proves' it by giving 'let's play nice' demos.

A secret of internal strength?:
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Old 02-09-2007, 06:17 PM   #516
DH
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Re: Baseline skillset

As far as I'm concerned and I think most people are concerned, 23 years on the mat is much more impressive in terms of mastery of an art than someone, anyone, who theorizes about this and that and 'proves' it by giving 'let's play nice' demos.

As far as I'm concerned 23 years of aikido IS... 23 yrs of playing nice demos.

I really don't care who has what time-in where.
-Your- understanding is in your hands.
Time-in matters not
I have seen that myth laid to rest more than once. Though you may be right that most people think that way. Most people don't have a clue about high level skills.
I'll bet on somone with either good internal skills or good MMA skills
Mores the point, someone with both...anyday and twice on sunday.
Although Aikido with good internal skills -can- be potent if you know what you're doing. Its what it was always meant to be in the first place.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 02-09-2007 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 02-09-2007, 08:38 PM   #517
Eddie deGuzman
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Re: Baseline skillset

No worries, Raul. It's just getting frustrating having to explain in detail everything I write, even if it wasn't even the point of the original post I made. How do I move differently than I did 13 years ago? Better, smoother, lighter, straighter, more in-tune with my partner, aware of both our movement and balance, aware of connection and the lack of it, aware of muscle power and the use of kokyu, aware of weak and strong points, aware of the range of motion of limbs, better deeper longer breathing in conjunction with physical actions which are done by the body as a whole, better receiving, blending, extending, flowing, sensing etc. etc. etc. Let's just tack all that on to anything I say about aikido from now on.

Yes, Everyone, I agree, one can be practicing the wrong way. Been there, done that. Got a clue, but don't claim to know it all. Still, no one knows me from Adam and vice-versa so anything I say in response is moot. I'm willing to listen to everyone's thoughts about aikido though.

A shihan who moved to Fukuoka last year visited the dojo last night. Was really sorry to see him go. Really high level skills IMO FWIW. Anyway, got to work together and his movement is slightly different now. I asked him why and he said he's over that theory, and got better. Actually, what he said was he "graduated" from that technique. He's a 7th degree who had great internal skill before he left IMO FWIW , yet he has found something else to take his aikido to another level. He invited me to come visit so it looks like I'm going to the big city, Yippee! Really looking forward to meeting the fellow he's training with. Point is, no matter where you are on the ki/kokyu road, there seems to be always more to learn.

Good training to you all,
Eddie
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Old 02-10-2007, 03:40 AM   #518
eyrie
 
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Re: Baseline skillset

Oh stoppit Eddie... you seem to be deferring to mat time and rank as some indication of kokyu skills... it's worse than watching a grown man cry....

FWIW, many years ago when I was a lowly white belt, I had the good fortune of training with some 4th dan Iwama stylist at a training camp to which many other groups were invited. We were doing ikkyo... and as was customary, I took ukemi first, to which he proceeded to rip my arm off... then when it came to his turn, he went all floppy, so as to foil me. So... I kicked him in the gut.

He had... NO kokyu skills whatsoever... all shoulder strength and muscle. Even then, I knew the difference between using kokyu and muscle. If he had any kokyu skills, he would have made me throw myself....

FWIW, I went to train with some Goju peeps some years ago... and again, got the good fortune of training with some 5th dan in their version of "push hands".... all hard muscle, no kokyu. And then he starting punching me as he pushed... to which I responded with equal zest... and thought to meself, ok, let's see who gives up first.... after about a minute, he suddenly stops, and terminates the exercise, and then tells me "don't punch so hard"...

Ignatius
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Old 02-10-2007, 08:29 AM   #519
Eddie deGuzman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
Oh stoppit Eddie... you seem to be deferring to mat time and rank as some indication of kokyu skills... it's worse than watching a grown man cry....

And then he starting punching me as he pushed... to which I responded with equal zest... and thought to meself, ok, let's see who gives up first.... after about a minute, he suddenly stops, and terminates the exercise, and then tells me "don't punch so hard"...
There you go again, reading more into it than was intended. I'll make it easy for you. You win. I know jack. Will never know jack. You still punch harder.

Good luck in your training,
Eddie
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Old 02-10-2007, 09:08 AM   #520
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Eddie deGuzman wrote:
Still, no one knows me from Adam and vice-versa so anything I say in response is moot.
Hi Eddie:

There is a broad, unavoidable logic to the kokyu things that pretty much works OK on the internet (not 100%, but even if there's doubt a few questions can clear it up). I don't know Rob John, but he and I spotted that we were talking about the same thing pretty quickly. I don't know Dan Harden, but a number of the things he mentioned indicated pretty clearly that he was talking about jin. He knew, I knew it, and he knew that I knew it. Reportage of Ushiro Sensei's deeds, etc., was unclear so I made the trip to Glenwood Springs last Summer just so I could evaluate with my own eyes... he was using jin. The later reports of the Summer Camp and the comments about kokyu were crystal clear.... if I had seen the words in those before the Summer Camp, I might not have bothered to go because he's obviously talking about Kokyu. [[Incidentally, there is a huge spectrum of ability in ki and kokyu... "knowing kokyu" doesn't tell anyone how good the full abilities are]]

So best case, you can tell from what someone says whether they know or not. If there's a doubt, it's best to meet up. A lot of people are beginning to meet up and compare notes and that's the first sign that a critical step is beginning in a lot of Aikido .... not all Aikido; some groups will be left behind because they have no idea that they're missing something large but basic.

In Japan, it would probably be fun for you to meet up with Rob John and compare notes. On a completely friendly and helpful basis. That way someone would know you from Adam. Or even "Adam's Off-Ox" (which is where I think the saying originated).

Best.

Mike Sigman
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Old 02-10-2007, 11:23 AM   #521
Eddie deGuzman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Hi Eddie:

[[Incidentally, there is a huge spectrum of ability in ki and kokyu... "knowing kokyu" doesn't tell anyone how good the full abilities are]]

So best case, you can tell from what someone says whether they know or not. If there's a doubt, it's best to meet up. A lot of people are beginning to meet up and compare notes and that's the first sign that a critical step is beginning in a lot of Aikido .... not all Aikido; some groups will be left behind because they have no idea that they're missing something large but basic.

In Japan, it would probably be fun for you to meet up with Rob John and compare notes. On a completely friendly and helpful basis. That way someone would know you from Adam. Or even "Adam's Off-Ox" (which is where I think the saying originated).
Hi Mike, I agree with you on the spectrum thought. I don't think I have made any amazing claims to date other than basic kokyu skills(as seen per my dojo) and not knowing exactly what IS possible at the highest level of the spectrum, I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to where I would fall on it. As for my dojo, I would say my skills are average or just a tad more(just to make myself feel good ) And this, of course means nothing to anyone.

I agree with you that some will get left behind, not that it is their fault, they simply just don't know. And I was in that group until I came to Japan and felt something different, as you did. As I'm sure happens to everyone who has never felt it before, it opens your eyes and your mind and there's no going back. I don't know it all and can't do it all. But I believe my foot is in "the door". Whether anyone else believes it is not really relevant to my training. And I say this not meaning to offend. It's just a fact. I'm just a little surprised that I would need to get verified before allowed to have an opinion.

Many things you've said "ring true" as per my experience. Please recall that I have learned in the less spoken is better traditional Japanese style and thus lack the words to accurately describe the "feeling" of ki/kokyu in English. My interest in this thread is not only to learn more about the concept of ki/kokyu, but also find an easier way to describe it.

Actually, I've pretty much agreed with everything you've said, comments about Eric aside, and would like to hear more on the energy paths used in Chinese internal arts. In an earlier post you mentioned use of the back leg for "grounding". I've never really thought of grounding, as I said, I feel more centered than anything, but I am always interested in learning more. You said you might PM me with some information regarding internal forces. Hope you find the info and the time.

Looks like Rob John is up in Tokyo and I'm down in Kyushu. I'm certainly not averse to the idea of meeting, yet I doubt I'll spend the money and time just so someone can call me Adam. I did visit Aikikai Hombu ages ago. I found the style of aikido quite stiffer than how we do it, but perhaps that was one of the beginner classes. It was quite crowded.

He's welcome to stop by here anytime. I've toyed with the idea of going up to Hiroshima to visit Mr. Goldsbury since that's not too far from here. He seems to be quite knowledgable in many aspects of aikido and Japan in general. Closer to home though, is Fukuoka, and it looks like I'll get to visit Tenjin sometime soon. I mention this not to impress Iggy, but to show I have no qualms about visiting other dojo and am genuinely excited at the chance to learn more.

Cheers,
Eddie
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:49 PM   #522
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
I agree with you that some will get left behind, not that it is their fault, they simply just don't know. And I was in that group until I came to Japan and felt something different, as you did. As I'm sure happens to everyone who has never felt it before, it opens your eyes and your mind and there's no going back.
I agree with you, but there's still an element of personal responsibility. I assume as a baseline that my perceptions are reasonably normal.... not lacking, but not super-normal. It didn't take me, with almost zero experience in Aikido (although I had other arts under my belt) to notice immediately that special feel when I encountered it. A lot of the experienced people who are missing it now *must* have had elements of the same clues presented to them and they didn't get it. Or chose not to. Or let peer pressure and "common wisdom" keep them from thinking thoroughly. Or whatever. I can't give them a complete pass. And yeah, I know that's "mean" (as Rob Liberti says) because I don't give them a pass and still "respect their many years of achievements and nice-guyness in the arts", yada, yada.... but without a little prodding, most of the people will still not move, even now. Take a look at Rob Liberti and a few others.... now that they've had an actual feel, they want to go learn this stuff (the stuff they were just mildly interested in as a casual topic before) just so they can pass me and kick my butt with what they've learned. Good for them. If that's what it takes to motivate people, well hey, whatever works.
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Many things you've said "ring true" as per my experience. Please recall that I have learned in the less spoken is better traditional Japanese style and thus lack the words to accurately describe the "feeling" of ki/kokyu in English.
Good point.
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In an earlier post you mentioned use of the back leg for "grounding". I've never really thought of grounding, as I said, I feel more centered than anything, but I am always interested in learning more. You said you might PM me with some information regarding internal forces. Hope you find the info and the time.
Well, if you go back and look, my comment about the back foot was more along the lines that it's the best way to start to learn these skills, not that you use the back-foot all the time. Once you learn them, you can use the front foot, the butt, your back, or whatever has access to the ground, etc.

Sorry about the PM, Eddie... I may have forgotten. I'll handle it now.

Best.

Mike
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Old 02-10-2007, 03:33 PM   #523
DH
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Take a look at Rob Liberti and a few others.... now that they've had an actual feel, they want to go learn this stuff (the stuff they were just mildly interested in as a casual topic before) just so they can pass me and kick my butt with what they've learned. Good for them. If that's what it takes to motivate people, well hey, whatever works.
Best.

Mike
Hey Now..that isn't on the table with Rob. If it is, I'll be surprised. I've never heard anything like that. In fact just the opposite. More along the lines of wanting to "feel" everyone. He did say he wanted to handle HIS teacher-but in a light hearted way.
Most guys I have met so far are not into personalities one way or the other but into the research and the work. I encourage them to feel as many as they can.
Cheers
Dan
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Old 02-10-2007, 03:54 PM   #524
Mike Sigman
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Dan Harden wrote:
Hey Now..that isn't on the table with Rob. If it is, I'll be surprised. I've never heard anything like that.
Well, his posts are archived, Dan, but let's not get off the point. I very honestly don't have any feelings about emotional issues on this one... I genuinely think that anything is fair game to motivate people, if it motivates them in the right direction. You start off nice, but nice seldom works with anyone who thinks they're "already there", as you should know quite well by now.

You do whatever it takes to motivate, but I think we're beyond that point (and have been for a 4 or 5 years now). There's already a cascade of people heading in the direction of those skills. Clinically, I think that Aikido has a *somewhat* better shot within a few of the factions as acquiring reasonably complete ki/kokyu skills, ahead of other western versions of Asian arts. And I'm all for a limited experiment at it. Encouraging, even. It will be interesting to watch. It will be interesting to watch how some of the Shihans adapt to a changing world, too.

And hey, it's OK for someone in martial arts to want to practice something until he's better at it than So-and-so. In my mind that's a perfectly legitimate motivation to practice and improve. Heaven knows.... one day my doorbell might ring and it will be Cady there to use her ki to "take control of my body" and toss me around like a rag-doll.



Mike
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Old 02-10-2007, 05:01 PM   #525
DH
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
I genuinely think that anything is fair game to motivate people, if it motivates them in the right direction. You start off nice, but nice seldom works with anyone who thinks they're "already there", as you should know quite well by now.
Mike
Well I can't speak to that.
a. I've never heard it from Rob. People are much more up front and expansive in person. It doesn' even sound like him.
b. I try to be as nice as I can-though I am rather blunt. In Person nice seems to have always worked for me. As you know, most people who have never done this stuff, once they get a feel, realize they have to start over. And the pros- once they get to assess- tend to open up and share. Hard work and sweat tends to speak for itself to others who have sweat and failed, experimented and kept trying.

Cady can speak of her own skills.
I've never argued or shied away from internal to internal where ya can find it. That's where "skills" come to the for and the real fun begins. Aiki age or Peng jin is just the first step. There is so much more.
Cheers
Dan
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