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Old 01-10-2007, 01:46 PM   #1
thinking
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Dojo Vs Street

Well i think that a few of the things i have been shown in the aikido classes would be able to be used in the streets. granted i have only been in the class for a few days now. i don't know if you get more things later on in ranks. I'm assuming that you do. but wanted to know what others where thinking about this say if you have 2yrs or more training please post back.

Its Not a Style But its a Way Of Life......
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Old 01-10-2007, 01:58 PM   #2
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Aikido has multiple uses and applications outside of the dojo. Training reveals this to you over time. Others telling you about it...not so much.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 01-10-2007, 02:09 PM   #3
mickeygelum
 
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

There is so much street application of what you will learn..give it time and diligent training...the best awaits you.

Michael
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Old 01-10-2007, 02:12 PM   #4
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

I am not sure I am following your question. Is it Dojo VS Street, or do you learn more things in aikido later on after 2 years.


I know you are new and enthusiastic. Here is some things that may help.

1. Please do a search through the thousands of threads and post here on aikiweb to find things that are realitive to the questions you have. I bet that your initial questions will be close to many that have already been answered by others. If not, or you have a different angle on the same question...you are then prepared to discuss it from a position of greater knowledge.

2. Figure out what it is you want or expect out of aikido. We all have expectations of ourselves, the world, and aikido. Sometimes they all don't line up. (discontent) sometimes they do (harmony). Is it MOST important that you learn to defend yourself on the street, and not so important that you learn the internal lessons of budo? This one may take you years to answer, and the answer may change many times.

I have found no hidden techniques in aikido, nor things that are taught to advanced students and NOT to beginners, although you may not do as much or as fast on the first day or couple of months/years.

The difference is not the techniques....but the timing and awareness that experience brings you.

As far as the street. It is quite possible that you could learn something on the first day, and then go out on the street and use it successfully. It is also possible to study for years and fail miserably at a technique you could do in your sleep.

Experience (years), should bring you wisdom. That wisdom allows you to expand the choices you have in a situation. In theory the more wisdom you have, the better you are able to have a more appropriate response.

For now, the best thing to do is have fun, have an open mind, take it easy on yourself, and don't be too critical of anything...go to class, experience and enjoy!

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-10-2007, 02:20 PM   #5
Mark Gibbons
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Thinking,

You might want to search the site. Try using the advanced search function and look for "street" in the title. The topic has been done many times before. Some very recently.

I hope you enjoy your training. My own experience is that just the practice of staying aware is valuable on the sidewalk, bus or what have you.

Mark
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Old 01-10-2007, 02:25 PM   #6
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Quote:
Matthew Glenn wrote:
Well i think that a few of the things i have been shown in the aikido classes would be able to be used in the streets. granted i have only been in the class for a few days now. i don't know if you get more things later on in ranks. I'm assuming that you do. but wanted to know what others where thinking about this say if you have 2yrs or more training please post back.
Hi Matthew, nice name! I'm not entirely sure what you're asking though...could you try saying it in another way if I misunderstand you?
I would say it's likely a lot of the things you will learn are useful in a variety of situations. I notice the benefit most regularly when playing sports: Aikido has helped me play tackle football better (I'm usually one of the smallest people on the field) and my dexterety in general. Over time you'll learn more techniques, but the techniques are just a way of practicing and becoming familiar with how to move more efficiently. The most impressive (in my mind at least) times I've used Aikido off the mat, I didn't have time to think about technique. I just sort of felt my way through it automatically...so I wouldn't worry about how many techniques you know, if that's what you're curious about. I know this idea often gets flak, but in my opinion, you ought pay more attention to the principles behind Aikido techniques than to the forms/techniques themselves.
Anyway, hope that's what you were looking for.
Take care,
Matt

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Old 01-10-2007, 02:31 PM   #7
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
...
Nice post, Kevin! I really liked that.
Take care,
Matt

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Old 01-10-2007, 02:50 PM   #8
thinking
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote:
Hi Matthew, nice name! I'm not entirely sure what you're asking though...could you try saying it in another way if I misunderstand you?
I would say it's likely a lot of the things you will learn are useful in a variety of situations. I notice the benefit most regularly when playing sports: Aikido has helped me play tackle football better (I'm usually one of the smallest people on the field) and my dexterity in general. Over time you'll learn more techniques, but the techniques are just a way of practicing and becoming familiar with how to move more efficiently. The most impressive (in my mind at least) times I've used Aikido off the mat, I didn't have time to think about technique. I just sort of felt my way through it automatically...so I wouldn't worry about how many techniques you know, if that's what you're curious about. I know this idea often gets flak, but in my opinion, you ought pay more attention to the principles behind Aikido techniques than to the forms/techniques themselves.
Anyway, hope that's what you were looking for.
Take care,
Matt
Well its not the moves I'm worried about. i was basically asking if others thought that aikido was Abel to be used in case of a street fight. but by some of the posts i guess this was asked be for so i will just reside from posting and just read. i like to talk about aikido so I'm sorry if i have opened a ? already answered. Thank you to the ones that did reply.

Its Not a Style But its a Way Of Life......
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:07 PM   #9
MM
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Quote:
Matthew Glenn wrote:
Well its not the moves I'm worried about. i was basically asking if others thought that aikido was Abel to be used in case of a street fight. but by some of the posts i guess this was asked be for so i will just reside from posting and just read. i like to talk about aikido so I'm sorry if i have opened a ? already answered. Thank you to the ones that did reply.
There are certain questions that generate as many opinions as
there are people. Just a quick top 5 list of questions that generate a multitude of responses.

1. Is Aikido street effective/does it work in real life/will it work outside the dojo/can it be used in a real fight?

2. Which Aikido is real or true? The fluffy bunny or the shodothug? What Ueshiba was doing pre-war or post-war? What Ueshiba the father said or what Ueshiba the son said?

3. What is aiki? ki? kokyu?

4. What's missing from Aikido?

5. Is Aikido more physical or more spiritual?
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:15 PM   #10
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

6. Can you defend yourself in a cage match with Tito Ortiz using Aikido?

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:19 PM   #11
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

7. How long does it take to really become effective with aikido?
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:21 PM   #12
thinking
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

wow ok guys your funny thanks for going off topic....

Its Not a Style But its a Way Of Life......
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:21 PM   #13
MM
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Wow, I don't know how I missed those two.
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:23 PM   #14
MM
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Quote:
Matthew Glenn wrote:
wow ok guys your funny thanks for going off topic....
It does seem a little silly, doesn't it? But, wait until you do a search and read the threads.
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:25 PM   #15
thinking
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

LOL
i will look in to it!!!!

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Old 01-10-2007, 03:29 PM   #16
MM
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Being serious, I think you have to consider individuals for your answer.

What each person learns and how they use what they've learned determines "effectiveness". Which, in your example, translates as to how well someone can use Aikido "in the streets".

Or think of it this way -- I like to use a vehicle example. My cousin and I like to go 4-wheeling. Now, no matter how much time we spend gaining experience, we can drive the exact same truck and still go about the 4 wheel drive trail very differently. And in some places, we'll do the same thing. Other places we'll do completely different things. One of us will get stuck in a mud hole while the other won't. One of us will get stuck rock crawling up a hill and the other won't. Same truck, two different drivers, and a whole world of choices.

Now, throw in a truck that you really love to drive. Add in some nice tires and lockers and lift kit. Now you've got a better chance at handling that 4 wheel trail.

Substitute any Aikido school for the truck. And then substitute a very good teacher for the tires, lockers, and lift kit. Get the picture?

Mark
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:29 PM   #17
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

No...actually in all seriousness...please do look...i was going to do the same thing as Mark earlier so you'd have a good list of common questions that come up.

It is not silly to ask these questions when you are starting out, they are geniune and honest, but you don't always get the answer you were hoping for!
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:36 PM   #18
jxa127
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Matthew,

My instructor has stated that it takes about two years of training in aikido before a student can use his or her skills in a violent encounter with some success. That seems about right to me, based on my own experiences. At the same time, I've been training for seven years, and still feel like a rank beginner in a lot of ways.

Note, that's not the same thing as saying that two years of study would give a student the ability to win a street fight. I'm actually not sure what a "street fight" is, or what "on the street" means. I know it's verbal shorthand for things that happen in the real world outside the dojo, but people seem to have a concrete (pun!) idea of what that means. I don't.

Both times that I've really had to rely on my training in a physical altercation, I was in a house and there was no fighting involved. In both cases, I had to physcially restrain somebody who was high on drugs for his own safety. This situation is about as far removed from the dojo, as I can imagine.

My experiences are probably not typical, but I'm not sure what is typical. My point is that with training and experience, we progress from a very narrow understanding of how to apply techniques (he grabbed my wrist, so I repond with ...) to a much broader understanding and spontaneous application of aikido principles.

As an example, last year, when I had the second physical altercation, I ended up wrapping the other person in a bear hug around his waist and constantly adjusting to his movements to keep him pinned to a couch until help could arrive.

We don't practice "bear-hug couch pins" at my dojo, but I still felt as though I was connecting to his center, disturbing his balance, and maintaining contact. To me, these are the aikido principles I've studied. Others would probably read my description and say that it sounds a lot more like grappling. Okay, but I haven't studied grappling in any depth whatsoever. To me, what I did was aikido -- ugly aikido, and I felt more like uke than nage, but it was effective. As a bonus, neither of us was physically hurt.

My point is that the aikido training methods really do lead to useful skills, and that preconcieved ideas of "life on the street" may not be what you face when you need those skills.

Regards,

-Drew

Last edited by jxa127 : 01-10-2007 at 03:39 PM.

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Old 01-10-2007, 03:41 PM   #19
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Excellent post Drew. Now I don't feel so bad about being a smart@$$...



B,
R

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St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:43 PM   #20
jxa127
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Thanks, Ron.

And anyway, it's better to be a smart a** than a dumb a**.

Regards,

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Old 01-10-2007, 04:19 PM   #21
thinking
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

now Drew that is the kinda things im looking for thanks for that post Awasome job!!!!!!!

Kevin Leavitt :
I was and am looking up the ? You all have posted.

Its Not a Style But its a Way Of Life......
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Old 01-10-2007, 06:48 PM   #22
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Quote:
Matthew Glenn wrote:
Well its not the moves I'm worried about. i was basically asking if others thought that aikido was Abel to be used in case of a street fight.
In my opinion, yes it can be, but I would say Aikido training can be misleading. We often practice big movements with a cooperative partner, particularly in the early stages of training, and that seems to make some people think it should always look that way. Against a tough and committed attacker, the movements often become quite small and tight, demanding the kind of precision many of us only wish we had. It wasn't until my senior students (sempai) started exposing the holes in my method that I began to understand this. The basically wait for me to get the gist of a movement before demonstrating the subtleties I am missing.
Quote:
but by some of the posts i guess this was asked be for so i will just reside from posting and just read.
Yeah, there is a lot of information here on aikiweb and most of it can be found by reading old posts and checking out the various areas here, but (in my opinion) you should still feel free to ask questions as they come up. With few exceptions, I seriously doubt any of us here can say we've asked a question that hasn't at some point already been asked...it's kind of the nature of a forum like this. Still, I would say you can often save a lot of time by browsing first and then asking questions based on that.
Quote:
i like to talk about aikido so I'm sorry if i have opened a ? already answered. Thank you to the ones that did reply.
No worries! I'm very much the same way. I know I've often replied to threads most people wished would end and I probably ask more annoying questions than interesting ones...people here are pretty forgiving, though: learning is a process after all.
Gambatte!
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 01-10-2007, 08:19 PM   #23
jtsm
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Hi Thinking,

I personally believe new threads on common topics is not always a bad thing. People will change their mind over time on their responses so what one person replies on a topic 6 months ago, may have changed in the present after experience.

A good aspect to remember when training is your not only learning how to defend yourself in a scrap. You also become familiar with your strengths and weaknesses. I think one of the most important abilities in a street situation, is to be able to assess the situation, and present yourself right, first impressions count. So after training and learning your limitations you will likely start to naturally show more confidence in yourself. And a seasoned scrapper will spot this a mile away and will re-asses THERE situation. this should actually get you out of more fights then not.

In my younger (less wise) days, I learnt never to judge a book by it's cover, and realized, I should keep my book cover polished as well. I can say personally that being confidant in myself has got me out of a few hairy situations. Which normally would have got trounced.

jtsm
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Old 01-11-2007, 04:21 AM   #24
justin
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
6. Can you defend yourself in a cage match with Tito Ortiz using Aikido?

B,
R

not something in my top ten things i want to try before i die for sure
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Old 01-11-2007, 05:34 AM   #25
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Dojo Vs Street

Quote:
Matthew Glenn wrote:
Well its not the moves I'm worried about. i was basically asking if others thought that aikido was Abel to be used in case of a street fight. but by some of the posts i guess this was asked be for so i will just reside from posting and just read. i like to talk about aikido so I'm sorry if i have opened a ? already answered. Thank you to the ones that did reply.
Stick around Matthew. The street is not a topic you will have to wait around for long. I think it is the number one question people have who join almost any martial art. In our day, I think that when someone joins a martial art, they expect it to be useful on the street, no matter what the art is but the truth is that depending on what the art is, it will have a greater or lesser street value. I have seen people doing Capoeira and it is an odd looking art. I don't think it was made for the street but could certainly have applications. Brazilian Jujitsu is a good art and could be used on the street but if you are in a gang area where fights are not always one on one, there could be a problem. Boxers are very capable with their hands but may face a kicker. Fighters that both kick and box may have that covered but might not be good grapplers. A mixed martial artist might be good in the street unless the other guy has a gun or a knife. One of the best street weapons is a gun but if you use it, your chances of doing a long time in prison and spending a lot of time in a court house trying to get out are really high! The lawyers are expensive too.
Its a tough question to answer. The threads here will discuss all that because it is what the current group of budoka are interested in. I try to stay off "the street" and away from dangerous places so for me, Aikido works great. I feel fit, healthy, and I have learned a ton in Aikido. If per chance I run into trouble at a mall or a parking lot, I may win or I may lose but when it's over, they will know they ran into someone that was really unusual. My goal though is to do what Funakoshi Sensei said and use the secret teaching of karate and stay away from those situations.
Have a good time on Aikiweb!
Jorge

Last edited by Jorge Garcia : 01-11-2007 at 05:39 AM.

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