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Old 01-12-2007, 08:57 AM   #51
Guilty Spark
 
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

See Mike I disagree. When someone hates something, say the US for example, their not looking at anything that denies their hate. They will find a reason to hate the US. Give them evidence to the contrary of their argument and they will just ignore it citing false credentials or come up with another reason to hate it.
Even if we did find WMD then people will say that there were too few to cause any harm
OR, and heres the biggie, if we find WMD tomorrow then some people will argue that the US actually moved them there on their own JUST so they could find it and justify the invasion after all.
There's no winning.

If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.

You don't own what you can't defend
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Old 01-12-2007, 09:11 AM   #52
Mike Sigman
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Oh, I agree. Couple of big bombs going off in a couple of large metro cities and suddenly reality will come back. But that's what it will take. When the 9-11 destruction happened, many of us said "That's one... but it will take at least two before the liberals will realize that these attacks aren't just some television show about other people".

When I lived in Haight-Ashbury in 1968 I remember a neighbor hippy lady-friend, someone who hated the US and "the Pigs" (the cops) sitting on her doorstep one morning, crying and screaming that the cops hadn't responded in time to protect her from a robbery. The hate is there as sort of a child-like game... but when life starts getting real, it's a different story. Oh well.

Mike
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Old 01-12-2007, 10:43 AM   #53
odudog
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Am I the only one who remembers that the people with the most power in this country and decided to start the whole Iraq debacle kept stating that they new Iraq had WMDs and that they knew where they were? If they knew where they were, why haven't they showed them to us or told us that they have destroyed them? Saddam was talking out the side of his mouth and trying to make himself look all powerful. It was all talk. The people with the power would not listen to the one person right next to them that had a decent head on his shoulders, Colin Powell. Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld broke it so now they own it but they are trying despirately to push it onto someone else.
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Old 01-12-2007, 11:13 AM   #54
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote:
The people with the power would not listen to the one person right next to them that had a decent head on his shoulders, Colin Powell.
Hmmmmmm... Colin Powell was the one general who opposed the first Gulf War even after Saddam invaded Kuwait. Opposed it. Wanted to "negotiate" in the UN. So when Bush wanted to go follow the recommendation of the CIA and every intel service, including the Brits, France, and Germany, that Saddam had WMD's and would give them to terrorists, Colin said "no, let's negotiate in the UN". So we did. The French made a complete fool of him and he's embarrassed to this day how they played him.

One of the interesting things I like to notice is that no liberal ever likes to mention that the French, Russian, and Chinese were all bribed by Saddam to stall the US from going to war. Not a peep. Why is that? Libs admire them for making money?

Mike
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Old 01-12-2007, 01:29 PM   #55
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

WHERE IS THE RESPECT?

Re "Where Is The Respect," a (what I thought was a generically friendly post on a martial arts forum page) has taken on a life of it's own. I merely intended to respectfully suggest to my fellow peers in the discipline that I came up through the bare-knuckled days of "old School karate" and "warehouse" brawls." But, to get to that point, the first thing that I learned was to respect and show common courtesy to my fellow martial artists. The www.aikiweg.com/forums web site is perhaps the cleanest and most intellectually provocative martial web site that I have come across. I would love to meet and greet everyone of you that responded negatively or positively to my original - and first entry here.
To digress for a moment, as I'm sure most of you know, The EFC International Convention will be held in Miami this October 4th - October 6th. Martial artists from all over the world will be there as I will. For more info about it, contact me at Incoming663@aol.com.
Anyhow, the "...Respect" entry has gone from the thrust of that posting to debates on WMD to what I perceive to be personal attacks at me because of people like Ann Coulter to Bill O'reilly and the breaking down of how some of us express ourselves politically, ideologically, philosophically to one respondent requesting a list of "what REAL men do and What REAL don't do." My abridged answer to that is this: If you are a man, you don't need to ask ME what REAL men do and don't do. Geeze! Lol. I'm not making light of anyone's questions or statements. Far from it. But, at this juncture, I believe that I have been on the defensive long enough and now it's my turn to go a bit on the offensive.
First of all, my pop told me years ago that the best way to lose friends is to discuss religion and/or politics with them. Although I studied Theology in school and am somewhat of a political firebrand in the political arena, but I fail to see what that has to do with the martial arts. I never took a course in all my years in the martials in theology or politics. Personally, this fine web site in not the proper venue for political debates, one's Faith or religious practices. If any of you want to debate politics or religion go to my blog, read some of it and hit me with your best shot if you don't like what you read. http://journals/aol.com/incoming663/...heRealBigDawg/ or www.therealbigdawg.com.
The bottom line on "Where Is The Respect" was to encourage simple common courtesy with those whom you may or may not agree or disagree with. That's it. There is no reading the "lines in between the line in between those lines. I'm a straight up guy. I don't live in a glass house (thank goodness - lol) and if some of you wish to judge me by my blog site or any other aspect of what I have written here on this web site, that is your prerogative. Peace out.~Dawg~
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Old 01-12-2007, 02:10 PM   #56
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Quote:
Grant is right. Your favorite websites list reads like a who's who of some of the most prominent perpetrators of incivility and vitriol in public political debate today. I don't see how you could be genuine about the sentiment you just posted here and be a fan of such demagogues.

As for your criticism of this forum, in my long experience of such internet boards, it usually seems above average in terms of civility. The only place I've seen significantly more polite exchanges is on boards where all posts are pre-screened by a moderator. In my experience, just as many people get upset by agressive, legitimate debating that sticks to the topic as they do by personal insults, and the inability to distinguish is often what leads to insults. I am quite disciplined about confining my criticisms to a person's ideas and behavior in the debate, yet I am insulted all the time, and often characterized as a "bad guy" by folks who can't tell the difference when the dust has settled.
Sir. There is a difference between a debate and a friendly exchange of ideas. If you want to engage in political debate, contact me @ Incoming663@aol.com or go to www.therealbigdawg.com
Why don't we do a fair Q and A on the hot issues of the day? Best =Dawg
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Old 01-12-2007, 02:15 PM   #57
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Greetings, sir. I liked your posting. I also liked your "words of wisdom." I have a little saying that goes like this: "When a finger points at the moon, the embicile looks at the finger." Best=Frank

Last edited by Incoming663 : 01-12-2007 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Poor Spelling - lol.
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Old 01-12-2007, 02:27 PM   #58
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote:
Am I the only one who remembers that the people with the most power in this country and decided to start the whole Iraq debacle kept stating that they new Iraq had WMDs and that they knew where they were? If they knew where they were, why haven't they showed them to us or told us that they have destroyed them? Saddam was talking out the side of his mouth and trying to make himself look all powerful. It was all talk. The people with the power would not listen to the one person right next to them that had a decent head on his shoulders, Colin Powell. Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld broke it so now they own it but they are trying despirately to push it onto someone else.
Mr. Braxton, sir. I didn't want to go political on this site, but now that Bubba Clinton's close friend and confidant, Sandy Berger, has been caught going into the National Archives and stealing gosh knows what by stuffing top secret info into his socks and underwear. Now the whole 9/11 Commission's investigation has been compromised. Berger has also compromised our national security by antics. This crook also used a common method that spy's use to transfer top secret info to another by the use of "dead drops." It's no wonder this whole Iraqi thing has gone sideways with that kind of turn-over from the Clinton White House. Best =Dawg
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Old 01-12-2007, 03:07 PM   #59
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

This has got to be the most bizzare thread we have ever had on Aikiweb!
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Old 01-12-2007, 03:23 PM   #60
Neil Mick
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Mike,

Take a look at the thread-title: it's called "Where is the Respect?" For this reason, I am assuming that the topic is a tone of respect, within forum-threads.

In the few times I bother to read your posts, you have taken time out to insult me on everything from my veracity, to my mental-state. And so, I put you on ignore. Your response, of course, has been to troll my posts, doggedly using your usual tactics of smear, mislabeling, and personal assaults.

And, as you know, I have several times offered you the opportunity to clear the bad-books by PM'ing me, and agreeing to conduct a polite discussion, free of personal assault.

My inbox remains empty, and (going by your last, successful attempt to shut down a thread) you persist in similar attacks. But, here we are in a thread entitled "respect," and so I will remove the ignore feature, for now, to address you directly.

Frankly, Mike: your sources are laughable. Newsmax and Frontpagemagazine are hardly the heights of journalistic endeavors. More to the point, the few times you DO link a source, it is either based upon a whole lot of misinformation, often repeated (as a lie repeated many times, becomes the truth); or simply a hit-piece that spends the bulk of its pixils attacking the character of a person, without exploring whether or not the veracity, of the author.

Much, in the same way, as you do, here.

I believe I understand why you do this: on some level, you know that most of your arguments would not hold up under a reasonable debate mindful of courtesy, and so you go for the low-blow. I've seen it before, many times: and I am sure that I'll have the misfortune of seeing it again, after you tire of this immaturity, and move on to better things.

But, just for our reading audience (as, I am positive that showing you your error will prove NOTHING to you...how could it? You're still stuck back in 2003, beliebing that wmd's exist, when most of the world...Bush included...has moved on) , I am going to show you how easy it is to dismantle your weak little strawmen.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Very simple and it's on the record. When confronted with the truth, Wilson said, "I misspoke", knowing that if he continued the lie he'd be in jail
Yes, and if you'd bothered to read out the full transcript when he said that he "misspoke," he was hardly admitting to lying. Your assumption that he was covering himself is simply that...an assumption.

Quote:
BLITZER: So when the committee says that you told them you had misspoken, what did you misspeak?

WILSON: Well, actually, what I misspoke was, when I misspoke to the committee, when I spoke to the staff -- this interview took place 15 months after The Washington Post article appeared. I did not have a chance to review the article. They did not show me the article.

They threw it out there, and the question I took as being a rather generic question: Could you have misspoken? Yes, I am male, I'm over 50. By definition, I can misspeak. I have gone back since and taken a look at this particular article. It refers to an unidentified former government official. If it is referring to me, it is a misattribution, of facts that were already in the public domain and had been so since March.
Quote:
Of course, lies and law-breaking mean little if a the liberal media is reporting on a fellow liberal,
Again, another oft-repeated lie. "Liberal media?" Where were the "Liberal" media, in 2003, when we were treated to a parade of military on the mainstream news? Almost no anti-war ppl were interviewed.

The studies showing just how "liberal" the mainstream media is (not) are easy to find. But, never mind, you know it all, Mike...you're sharp, and know when ppl are lying.... uh huh.

Quote:
so this part was dropped almost immediately and not given the day-to-day coverage that would have happened if a Republican had done it.
Or, perhaps, it has no basis in fact, and was merely a canard for the bloggers and pundits to jump on, and to be echoed by the online Bush-faithful choir.

Quote:
Still... it's on the record, even in the Washington Post.
I am really laughing at this statement here, Mike. Isn't the Washington Post part of the "liberal media?" So which is it? The mainstream, Liberal media covered up this little "charade" of Wilson's, or it's easy to find, and all on record? You can't have it both ways.

But, OK, let's just be objective media-watchdogs for a second, and do Mike's job for him. Let's go find the source and see if he's right.

Plame's Input Is Cited on Niger Mission
Report Disputes Wilson's Claims on Trip, Wife's Role


Quote:
The report also said Wilson provided misleading information to The Washington Post last June. He said then that he concluded the Niger intelligence was based on documents that had clearly been forged because "the dates were wrong and the names were wrong."
"Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the 'dates were wrong and the names were wrong' when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports," the Senate panel said. Wilson told the panel he may have been confused and may have "misspoken" to reporters. The documents -- purported sales agreements between Niger and Iraq -- were not in U.S. hands until eight months after Wilson made his trip to Niger.
I've read through this article twice, Mike: and nowhere does it state that Wilson lied to protect himself from going to jail. Also, as we all know from Judith Miller's shoddy work at the NYT, one has to take these kinds of hit-articles with a grain of salt. Judith Miller, for her part, parroted whatever Achmed Chalabi wanted her to hear; who parroted what info he received from the Pentagon, as a justification to go to war; whereupon the Pentagon THEN offered up Miller's articles as justification of their own conclusions. In short, an echo-chamber was set up.

But, of course, you don't really care about hearing all sides of a discussion, do you? You'd rather listen to the sweet sound of damage-control--the cacophonous noise of a horde of pundits throwing mud in the face of investigators in the hopes that the stink of outing Valerie Plame will fade in the minds of the readers (the fact that Joe Wilson joined the Kerry team during an election year had NOTHING to do with it, either, I'm sure).

A good media-watchdog listens to all quarters, and so let's hear it,straight from the dog's mouth:

Quote:
Joe Wilson wrote:
Second conclusion: "Rather that speaking publicly about his actual experiences during his inquiry of the Niger issue, the former ambassador seems to have included information he learned from press accounts and from his beliefs about how the Intelligence Community would have or should have handled the information he provided."

This conclusion states that I told the committee staff that I "may have become confused about my own recollection after the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) reported that the names and dates on the documents were not correct." At the time that I was asked that question, I was not afforded the opportunity to review the articles to which the staff was referring. I have now done so.
On March 7, 2003 the Director General of the IAEA reported to the United Nations Security Council that the documents that had been given to him were "not authentic". His deputy, Jacques Baute, was even more direct, pointing out that the forgeries were so obvious that a quick Google search would have exposed their flaws. A State Department spokesman was quoted the next day as saying about the forgeries "We fell for it." From that time on the details surrounding the documents became public knowledge and were widely reported. I was not the source of information regarding the forensic analysis of the documents in question; the IAEA was.

The first time I spoke publicly about the Niger issue was in response to the State Department's disclaimer. On CNN a few days later, in response to a question, I replied that I believed the US government knew more about the issue than the State Department spokesman had let on and that he had misspoken. I did not speak of my trip.

My first public statement was in my article of July 6 published in the New York Times, written only after it became apparent that the administration was not going to deal with the Niger question unless it was forced to. I wrote the article because I believed then, and I believe now, that it was important to correct the record on the statement in the President's State of the Union address which lent credence to the charge that Iraq was actively reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. I believed that the record should reflect the facts as the US government had known them for over a year. The contents of my article do not appear in the body of the report and is not quoted in the "additional comments." In that article, I state clearly that "As for the actual memorandum, I never saw it. But news accounts have pointed out that the documents had glaring errors - they were signed, for example, by officials who were no longer in government - and were probably forged. (And then there's the fact that Niger formally denied the charges.)"

The first time I actually saw what were represented as the documents was when Andrea Mitchell, the NBC correspondent handed them to me in an interview on July 21. I was not wearing my glasses and could not read them. I have to this day not read them. I would have absolutely no reason to claim to have done so. My mission was to look into whether such a transaction took place or could take place. It had not and could not. By definition that makes the documents bogus.
The text of the "additional comments" also asserts that "during Mr. Wilson's media blitz, he appeared on more than thirty television shows including entertainment venues. Time and again, Joe Wilson told anyone who would listen that the President had lied to the American people, that the Vice President had lied, and that he had "debunked" the claim that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa."
So, let's construct a simple timeline, to show the turn of events:

1. Joe Wilson appears before a Committee filled with Republican loyalists. Not liking Wilson's findings, they question how he could know the reports were faked.

2. Not having seen the documents but having interviewed just about everyone who could have possibly been involved with the matter, Wilson makes the simple statement that the empirical facts speak for themselves.

3. Susan Schmidt writes her hitpiece; not having read it, Wilson is questioned about it, on CNN. Wilson says yeah, I'm 50 and human...it's possible I misspoke.

4. Rather than face the plain and obvious fact that the President knowingly lied about the yellowcake fiasco and the illegal outing a CIA operative as a personal vendetta, the Rightwing paparazzi go on the offensive as a form of damage-control.

5. Rather than see all sides of a debate, Mikey parrots what facts he likes, and ignores the rest.

Quote:
Mike S wrote:
Once again, Neil tries to slip a lie past the readers.
And here's the difference btw you and me, Mike. You like to suggest that I'm a liar, deranged, et al. I don't need to stoop so low, to make my point.

I figure that you do such a good job hanging yourself, with your own disrespect (I've even had ppl who normally disagree with me, PM me and grouse about your sliming tactics).

Quote:
Oh, of course... let's drop what Wilson is on record of saying in front of the Select Senate Intelligence Committee.... it's a trifle embarrassing because so many Dem's hold up Wilson as a hero.
No, not at all. As I did above, let's see what Wilson had to say. But, let's hear the WHOLE truth, not some half-truth, desperate attempt at spindoctoring.

And now, we'll be treated to a healthy round of more spin, with a healthy side of invective. I hope not...I just took this opportunity to show how EASY it is to deconstruct your strawmen.

P.S. I am hoping that you take this opportunity to obey forum guidelines and employ etiquette in your posts. Enough of the personal attacks. I really couldn't care less what you say about my favorite writers, leaders, et al...as public figures are fair game...but personal slurs only bring the debate down.

If you persist, I can, of course, put you on ignore (which I will), but henceforth I am taking a zero-tolerance to the slurs, and I will duly note them to Jun.
Regards,

Quote:
Mike (of course, I know Neil doesn't read these things, because he says so, if you believe him)
For now, the ignore is off. The next step is up to you.
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Old 01-12-2007, 03:31 PM   #61
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
This has got to be the most bizzare thread we have ever had on Aikiweb!
Wow... I totally agree, now.

Mike
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Old 01-12-2007, 03:39 PM   #62
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

With respect, good bye everyone, have a great weekend, see you in the new week.


Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 01-12-2007, 03:43 PM   #63
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

You have a good weekend, too, Ron.

Respectfully.

Mike
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Old 01-12-2007, 03:44 PM   #64
Neil Mick
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Thumbs down Re: Where Is The Respect?

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
Hey Neil, I'm glad you didn't take my message the wrong way. I gave it a lot of thought last night and wondered why it struck a chord with me. Was it because our views are so different and I was posting out of personal conflict? I don't think so because I'm finding I agree with a lot of your points.
Yes, I surmised that. Frankly, I think that if we sat down and chatted face to face: we'd find agreement on several issues. Political debate is often conflict-centered, unfortunately.

Quote:
In the end I think it's because of your delievery.
We all have our own burdens. I'm still working on my delivery: as Mike is still working on that objectivity-thing.

Quote:
When you see a new message by Neil Mick you can pretty much guess what it's about and your stance on the issue.
Oh really?

Bet you can't guess my stances on Bush's impeachment, China, or discussing politics in the dojo...?

Quote:
I've caught myself responding to some of your political posts (drawn in may be a better word heh) but as you can probabably tell I won't commit to much of the fight. I'm a political light weight where as it's your focus, I know when to pick my battles
It's what I like to talk about, here. I DO talk about non-political topics, too. My blog, for instance, is totally free of my political viewpoints.

Quote:
As for the WMD issue, I think it was pretty obvious from the start that it was a ploy to get our soldiers on the ground and the citizens behind them.
Agreed.

Quote:
The government assumed there were WMD so they went in crossing their fingers. How many agencies admitted to bending their intelligence reports or making claims up?
What I find interesting is that they actually believed Hussein had chemical/biological weapons...even tho most of the objective observers and weapons-inspectors were saying that he couldn't. When they crossed into Iraq, the generals ordered their soldiers to put on the ABC suits.

Quote:
We invaded because of "good" intelligence from places like Pakastan? Crazy. The government wanted to go in so they applied pressure and made it happen.
Yeah, this was definitely a case of political will pushing the envelope in the hopes of finding something out, later. Rumsfeld/Cheney cherry-picking intel in the "Office of Special Plans" is a good illustration of this dynamic.

Quote:
Suggesting just because we didnt find WMD doesn't mean they were there, to me, is a cop out.
Nah...I really know what happened to them. Hussein made a deal with Elvis and the fairies of never-neverland. They're still hiding them, there: awaiting the day when Hussein comes back to re-take Iraq, much like King Arthur.

Quote:
Thats like a cop kicking down my door because the previous owners were drug dealers and saying they heard from people on the street my house was a drug house and just because they didnt find any drugs there, doesn't mean I didn't have any.
Couldn't have said better, myself.
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Old 01-12-2007, 03:45 PM   #65
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Quote:
This has got to be the most bizzare thread we have ever had on Aikiweb!
Exlpain?=Frank
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Old 01-12-2007, 04:08 PM   #66
Neil Mick
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote:
Am I the only one who remembers that the people with the most power in this country and decided to start the whole Iraq debacle kept stating that they new Iraq had WMDs and that they knew where they were?
No, you're not. But, I'm hoping that someone would start a thread on its own. I love reading wmd conspiracy-theories...sort of like a "Da Vinci Code" plotline, for the political National Enquirer sect...

Quote:
If they knew where they were, why haven't they showed them to us or told us that they have destroyed them? Saddam was talking out the side of his mouth and trying to make himself look all powerful. It was all talk.
Yes, it was. But, IMO, the issue is the present. We have a President now who, in the words of Molly Ivans, "Hasn't the good sense God gave a duck." He seems heedless of the implications of the November elections.

Quote:
The people with the power would not listen to the one person right next to them that had a decent head on his shoulders, Colin Powell.
OK, all true: but let me just point something out (and, hopefully, shock Grant by stating the unexpected ) : if we were winning in Iraq, what do you think the American public's response would be?

Let's face it: if the war in Iraq were going well, the whole tone of this thread would be different. Mike's assumptions would be considered generally right, and the whole illegality of the issues wouldn't be given serious thought. The whole other sorry messes...Abu Ghraib; Iraqi death-squads in the al-Malaki gov't; the massacres at Fallujah...all of that would be written off, to the "costs" of war, and swept aside.

Who cares if we violated international law, if the Iraqi's are "free?" As a whole, the American public is self-centered. 9-11 looms large in our minds, but the numerous 9-11's we have visited upon the Iraqi people only takes front-stage because we're losing.

It was the same in Vietnam. Sad, but true.
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Old 01-12-2007, 05:21 PM   #67
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Boy howdy! Did you ever score a knock-out or what? One of the best postings that I have EVER seen on any site regarding ANYTHING. You, sir, certainly know your subject matter. Yep. The tongue is swifter than the sword in this case. Kudos to you, sir. Cheers=Dawg (Frank)
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Old 01-13-2007, 12:12 AM   #68
Neil Mick
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Quote:
Frank Murphy wrote:
Boy howdy! Did you ever score a knock-out or what? One of the best postings that I have EVER seen on any site regarding ANYTHING. You, sir, certainly know your subject matter. Yep. The tongue is swifter than the sword in this case. Kudos to you, sir. Cheers=Dawg (Frank)
(if you meant me) Thanks, Frank!
(if you didn't mean me) Whoops!
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Old 01-13-2007, 02:42 AM   #69
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Frank,

It is bizzare because you started it one way, then it goes another way...then we get into politics....then into personal issues, then back again. Everybody's talking passionately about something...but yet....nothing.

Sort of like no focus....I am not sure what we are talking about and why.
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Old 01-13-2007, 03:04 PM   #70
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
Frank,

It is bizzare because you started it one way, then it goes another way...then we get into politics....then into personal issues, then back again.
But Kevin...don't forget...the personal, IS political...
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:26 AM   #71
Incoming663
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Re: Where Is The Respect?

Re: Where Is The Respect?
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...738#post164738
Posted by: Kevin Leavitt
On: Yesterday 03:42 AM

Frank,

It is bizzare because you started it one way, then it goes another way...then we get into politics....then into personal issues, then back again. Everybody's talking passionately about something...but yet....nothing.

Sort of like no focus....I am not sure what we are talking about and why.
************
Re: Where Is The Respect?
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...763#post164763
Posted by: Neil Mick
On: Yesterday 04:04 PM

Frank,

It is bizzare because you started it one way, then it goes another way...then we get into politics....then into personal issues, then back again.

But Kevin...don't forget...the personal, IS political...
******************************************************************************** ********************************************************
[b]Incoming663@aol.com <Incoming663@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, sir. What a trip this one little supposedly innocuous posting has
> turned into. I'm part of GM Andy Watford's staff and last Thursday we discussed
> the intrapersonal and interpersonal jealousies and the political aspects that
> somehow worm their way into the martials. Btw, Andy is the successor to the
> late David German's US TAI. We (Watford) and I didn't like each other when
> we first met way back in the early 1970's ... both new blackbelts (with
> blackbeltitus - lol.) We had just started taking from the late GM Virgil Kimmey
> and we both knew that we were bound to get into it sooner or later. We did
> and he kicked my big 6' 5" 242 pound butt then and can still do it now. Gm
> Watford is about the size of the late great Ed Parker. But now-a-days, we are
> best friends.
> But I digress. POLITICS screws the pooch every time it raises it's ugly
> head and when it does the obvious next step is character assignation and
> personal jabs. I've been there, done that. I'm no angel and certainly no prude but
> there is a time and place for everything. When I step into the dojo (so to
> speak) I try to leave all the other issues outside the doors. Anyhow,
> enjoyed your email, and stay in touch.~Frank (Dawg)
>
http://journals.aol.com/incoming663/...heRealBigDawg/
www.therealbigdawg.com


Yours,
AikiWeb Aikido Forums team
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Old 01-15-2007, 03:17 PM   #72
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 225
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Talking Oh, no! it's the Radical AikiWeb Political Discussion Forum Front (or RAWPDFF)!!

Quote:
Frank Murphy wrote:
Yours,
AikiWeb Aikido Forums team
Yes, yes...but, who IS this mysterious "AikiWeb Aikido Forums Team," and what do they REALLY want...??
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