Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Open Discussions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-08-2007, 11:38 AM   #1
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
The New "Tax Breaks"

Help Understanding Democrat Tax Refunds

If you don't understand the Democrats' version of tax refunds, maybe this will help explain it:

50,000 people go to a baseball game, but thegame was rained out.
A refund was then due. The team was about to mail refunds when a group of Congressional Democrats stopped them and
suggested that they send out the ticket refunds based on the Democrat National Committee's interpretation of fairness.

Originally the refunds were to be paid based on the price each person had paid for the tickets. Unfortunately that meant most of the refund money would be going to the ticket holders that
had purchased the most expensive tickets. This, according to the DNC, is considered totally unfair.

A decision was then made to pay out the refunds in this manner:

People in the $10 seats will get back $15. After all, they have less money to spend on tickets to begin with. Call it an "Earned Income Ticket Credit." Many people (not all, but many) "earn" it by having few skills, poor work habits, and low ambition, thus keeping them at
entry-level wages.

People in the $25 seats will get back $25, because it "seems fair."

People in the $50 seats will get back $1, because they already make a lot of money and don't need a refund. After all, if they can afford a $50 ticket, they must not be paying enough taxes.

People in the $75 luxury box seats will each have to pay an additional $25 because it's the "right thing to do."

People walking past the stadium that couldn't afford to buy a ticket for the game each will get a $10 refund, even though they didn't pay
anything for the tickets. They need the most help. Sometimes this is known as Affirmative Action.

Now do you understand? It boils down to simply taking money away from the hardest working people (on the whole) and giving it to other people. It's called "redistribution of wealth".... meaning that you shouldn't work so hard to earn special advantages for you and your family because it will be taken away and given to the people who didn't want to work that hard (on the whole).
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 12:18 PM   #2
odudog
Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 393
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Seeing in the way of which you are complaining, it is obvious that you are Republican. You in fact should be happy with the example that you posted for the baseball team is coming out way ahead in the black and we know how much Republicans like business to come out in front over everything else. You also don't know much about affirmative action or have been on the other end of the stick in which the program is trying to fix. Do a much better post next time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 12:19 PM   #3
Tom Fish
Dojo: McAllen
Location: McAllen
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Hi Mike,
I think that the Republican strategy would be to create a program called "No Rained Out People Left Behind". Then all the money would be used to promote this fabulously effective program while none of the money would be returned to the rained out people. Either plan would separate the money from the people, which is the general purpose of bureaucracy to begin with.
Best
Tom
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 01:06 PM   #4
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote:
Seeing in the way of which you are complaining,
I haven't complained a bit. Let's just stay away from the personal characterizations. If you have some sort of logic, as opposed to a partisan feeling, why not put it in writing... it's so much more easy to talk about than my personal failings.

Mike Sigman
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 01:39 PM   #5
Hogan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Great post - fits the dems to a tee.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 01:58 PM   #6
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,025
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

What if you exchange "ballgame" with "heat, utilities, food, health care, rent/mortgage (we could include college tuition for three kids, but of course middle class/lower income families kids can just work their way through school and out take loans...)"? I'd think the affluent will still be able to live very comfortably and see to their needs, while the people in the lower end of middle class will need every cent to get the basics.

The "middle class" is too broad, from my perspective. Households making $100,000 a year should not be grouped with those of comparable size but making $50,000 or $40,000 or less in our current economy. There is a critical point you get too, economically, where it becomes a struggle to provide what are considered the basics for a life that is more than just hard-scrabble existance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 02:10 PM   #7
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Why don't we just take peoples' money away from them because they don't deserve? We should be able to decide what to do with other peoples' money, right? After all, "we" want to do "the right thing", as we determine it to be, eh? The "equal under law" doesn't really apply to peoples' personal assets, it seems.

I'm learning though. Nowadays when I go out to dinner with a group of people, I *insist* that the people making the most money pay for the dinner. After all, I want to "do the right thing".... when it's in accord with my own best interests and the people that I happen to favor.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 02:19 PM   #8
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,025
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Naw, you should know that it's a privilege to become rich! Look how few countries there are in the world where people are allowed to retain so much of the wealth they make., or even to make it in the first place. I think we should let the alpha males (and their alpha females) fight to the death for the power to be Emperor, then go back to a feudal system where only a chosen few can have wealth and privilege based on being related to the Emperor and how much butt they kiss.

Oh wait, we're already heading back that way...

Rich folk should quit whinin' and just pay their "Ain't I Lucky To Be Rich" tax.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 02:27 PM   #9
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Hey, if we're reviving old traditions, what about prima nocte?? That should be good for a few...cough...well...

never mind...

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 02:29 PM   #10
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Naw, you should know that it's a privilege to become rich! [[snip]]Rich folk should quit whinin' and just pay their "Ain't I Lucky To Be Rich" tax.
You must be a salary-drawer, Cady. Try getting all of your assets, the assets of your family and friends that they'll lend you, etc., and go into a business. I.e., instead of just wallowing in the "privilege" of living in a country that has so many safety nets that you've become soft, put your money on the line, like most small business owners have. Oh, and BTW, those are most of the "rich" that you're so set on taxing the most.

It's easy to sit there and talk about what to do with someone else's money and how they deserve for you to take it away, even though you haven't contributed anything to their "privilege", but let's get off the class-warfare stuff. Make everyone pay their *proportionate* share.... not "let the rich pay for everyone else's share", which is pretty much what is happening right now.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 02:31 PM   #11
Hogan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Naw, you should know that it's a privilege to become rich!
Privilege? Then it follows that it is a privilege to be poor, too? God, how I love this country... so many privileges....

Quote:
..Look how few countries there are in the world where people are allowed to retain so much of the wealth they make...
And what country is the richest in the world?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 02:42 PM   #12
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,025
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

The answer is Bill Gates.

Now, John. You know that people who believe in a higher power say that Mamon is the source of all ill in the world. Eye of a needle and all that. I say we should make anti-trust laws that act on individuals and cap the amount of wealth they can attain. After a certain point, they have to break up the overage and farm it out to charities and little matchstick girls.

Imagine if Bill Gates decided he wanted to own you. You'd have no say in the matter. He could buy and sell your neighborhood right out from under you, and make it impossible for you to live anywhere you wanted, if he decided he didn't like ya. And that, even if he does have to pay a "Aren't I Lucky I'm Financially Omnipotent" tax! We need to save Gates from himself and from your neighborhood.

In the meantime, stay on his good side, okay?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 03:00 PM   #13
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

[quote=Cady Goldfield]The answer is Bill Gates.

Now, John. You know that people who believe in a higher power say that Mamon is the source of all ill in the world. Eye of a needle and all that. I say we should make anti-trust laws that act on individuals and cap the amount of wealth they can attain. After a certain point, they have to break up the overage and farm it out to charities and little matchstick girls.[quote]Sure you say that... because it's good for you and not for the other guy... those nasty ole "rich people". Either we go by "equal rights" to make our fortune and keep it or we don't. You can't keep penalizing the people you don't like or the people you envy. And yes, the masses will vote themselves the wealth of the rich every time... but we already knew that, didn't we? That's what the Dem's basic platform is: vote for us and we'll give you the other guys' gold. It's an old song and the Dems sing it well.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 03:20 PM   #14
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,025
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Nah, the Dems are saying, "Robin Hood, Robin Hood, riding through the glen! Robin Hood, Robin Hood with his band of men! Rob from the RIIIIIICH, give to the POOOOR! Feared by the BAAAAAAD, loved by the GOOOOOD! Robin Hood, Robin Hood, Robin Hood!"

Boy, that dates me!

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 01-08-2007 at 03:26 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 04:10 PM   #15
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Nah, the Dems are saying, "Robin Hood, Robin Hood, riding through the glen! Robin Hood, Robin Hood with his band of men! Rob from the RIIIIIICH, give to the POOOOR! Feared by the BAAAAAAD, loved by the GOOOOOD! Robin Hood, Robin Hood, Robin Hood!"

Boy, that dates me!
Please Cady, if you are going to sing, try and be in tune

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 04:25 PM   #16
Hogan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
...Now, John. You know that people who believe in a higher power say that Mamon is the source of all ill in the world. Eye of a needle and all that.
Huh? What the hell is a Mamon.

Quote:
..I say we should make anti-trust laws that act on individuals and cap the amount of wealth they can attain. After a certain point, they have to break up the overage and farm it out to charities and little matchstick girls.

Imagine if Bill Gates decided he wanted to own you. You'd have no say in the matter. He could buy and sell your neighborhood right out from under you, and make it impossible for you to live anywhere you wanted, if he decided he didn't like ya. And that, even if he does have to pay a "Aren't I Lucky I'm Financially Omnipotent" tax! We need to save Gates from himself and from your neighborhood.

In the meantime, stay on his good side, okay?
Huh?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 04:37 PM   #17
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
Huh? What the hell is a Mamon.
Mamon = Mishnaic Hebrew and Aramaic for "riches." The word itself is given in the Sermon on the Mount. "Ye can not serve God and mammon" (Matt. vi. 24). There is no evidence that there was a Syriac god of this name, the modern idea that such a god existed being derived from Milton's personification of the nameó"Mammon, the least erected spirit that fell from heaven" ("Paradise Lost," i. 679). The word occurs in Abot ii. 12, where almsgiving is called "the salt of Mammon or riches." Gesenius suggests that the word was derived from "maṭmon" ("treasure"), with assimilation of the "ṭet." The spelling with three "m's," however, is apparently not justified; the Greek form with two is held by most scholars to be correct.J.

Also a Filipino sponge cake

regards

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 04:49 PM   #18
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,025
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Let me put it this way: We live suspended in the present moment, absorbed in our current issues. But if you step back and observe the pattern of human civilization, you see that since the beginning, there is a socio-politico-economic pendulum that swings from one extreme to another, with all of the gradation of stages in between.

When all of the wealth and power ends up in the hands of a few, the power of want drives the poor to overthrow -- by their sheer numbers and rage -- the rich, for a new social order to establish itself, and for the whole thing to start again, but with different players getting the goodies. It's a natural system, and we would be arrogant to believe that our own society is somehow exempt.

In a future scenario, The Wealthy (hereafter referred to as TW -- The Poor and Middle Class are referred to as TPMC) may find themselves living in lonely fortresses, protected by the latest hi-tech defense equipment to keep the Berserkers and Pirates (a la Capital One's "Wot's in YOUR wallet?!") from sacking their urban penthouses, yachts and big, empty vacation mansions in Telluride, hacking into their bank and investment accounts online, and making off with their wimmin and small children (Yo ho! Yo ho! A pirate's life for you in the scullery, me former trust-fund hearty!).

We haven't reached the critical point here yet, but the day will come. Taxing the middle-middle and lower-middle class will gradually push them downward into the ranks of the poor, and the U.S. will become the two-class society that has been the pendulum point in pretty much every human society that ever had a revolution and turned the tables.

To stave off that eventuality, however, the Democrats are doing TW a big favor by throwing a few bones to TPMC, in the form of taxes that still leave TW with ample wealth and comfort, but assuage the plight of families of four living on $40,000 a year (here in the Boston area, it was calculated that a single person must earn $44,000 a year just to cover the basics for not being "in want"), and elderly widows who are sucking on willow bark because they can't afford to buy arthritis and heart medicine while also having enough to buy food and pay for heat. Seems fair enough, since those elderly widows previously spent their last few dollars on the medications made by wealthy pharmaceutical companies, thus ensuring profits that fueled the mega-bonuses of their CEOs and senior staff.

So, y'all should be grateful to those Dems for suggesting this simple sop for the masses. Bread and circuses (with politics and reality tv as the circuses), ya know. It works. Look at the Saudis: the royal family makes sure that their masses get just enough of the House o' Saud's oil lucre to keep them sated and content. For circuses, they point a finger at Israel and the Jooz and blame all of the world's ills on them (diverting attention from the frisky activities of the House o' Saud). Yemen, Brunei, and Kuwait sate the masses, too. We could give the Gates family honorary royal status in exchange for spreading some of their wealth to ameliorate some of the deep poverty and suffering here in the U.S. of A., which will sedate the uppity lefties and make them fat and slow.

Barring that, why not let the Democrats give it a go and let's see whether TW lose all desire to continue to earn wealth, thanks to this evil tax.
By the way, Wot's in yer wallet, Mike and John? Arrrrrrrr!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 04:52 PM   #19
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,025
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Mark,
A Filippino sponge cake? Sounds better than balut, at any rate.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 04:54 PM   #20
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,025
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
You must be a salary-drawer, Cady.
Mike
Nope. Self-employed. As were both parents, who faithfully paid their taxes to the penny, and never complained. Before them, their parent arrived in the U.S. with the shirts on their backs, and built their lives from scratch.

I used to work in a cubicle at a non-profit, tho'.

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 01-08-2007 at 04:58 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 07:09 PM   #21
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Nah, the Dems are saying, "Robin Hood, Robin Hood, riding through the glen! Robin Hood, Robin Hood with his band of men! Rob from the RIIIIIICH, give to the POOOOR! Feared by the BAAAAAAD, loved by the GOOOOOD! Robin Hood, Robin Hood, Robin Hood!"
The rich are "bad"? Interesting perspective on life. But it gives you a reason to rob (your term) them. Lessee.... if you rob a rich person who is not really bad, but is a hard worker, etc., who is really the "bad" person? Now you get it. The libs encourage "bad" behaviour because they justify it as being "good". That's pretty apt.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 07:10 PM   #22
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Nope. Self-employed. As were both parents, who faithfully paid their taxes to the penny, and never complained. Before them, their parent arrived in the U.S. with the shirts on their backs, and built their lives from scratch.

I used to work in a cubicle at a non-profit, tho'.
Got a corporation that hires people and gives them jobs? Or did you ever step up that far?

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 07:14 PM   #23
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,025
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
The rich are "bad"? Interesting perspective on life. But it gives you a reason to rob (your term) them. Lessee.... if you rob a rich person who is not really bad, but is a hard worker, etc., who is really the "bad" person? Now you get it. The libs encourage "bad" behaviour because they justify it as being "good". That's pretty apt.

Mike
Hey, I didn't write the lyrics. By the way, check out the surname of the chap who did. This site leaves out one verse (the "robs from the rich, gives to the poor" line).

http://www.boldoutlaw.com/robspot/gr...n2.html#lyrics

http://www.boldoutlaw.com/robspot/greenerobin.html

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 01-08-2007 at 07:19 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 07:18 PM   #24
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Let me put it this way: We live suspended in the present moment, absorbed in our current issues. But if you step back and observe the pattern of human civilization, you see that since the beginning, there is a socio-politico-economic pendulum that swings from one extreme to another, with all of the gradation of stages in between.

When all of the wealth and power ends up in the hands of a few, the power of want drives the poor to overthrow -- by their sheer numbers and rage -- the rich, for a new social order to establish itself, and for the whole thing to start again, but with different players getting the goodies. It's a natural system, and we would be arrogant to believe that our own society is somehow exempt.
Hogwash. If you look at the total of human existence, it's one of competition, which improves the species. Just like in every animal population, some wind up on top and some never make it to the top because they can't do it, don't have the breaks, and whatever. That's true in the periods of "civilization", too. The strong win; the weak lose. What's happened in the last few hundred years is that the number of people who are rich and middle class is far beyond anything ever seen in history. To pretend this is the Dark Ages is absurd. And to suggest that we are at the acme of evolution and therefore should stop, split the wealth, and pretend-play that everyone is really equal is fatuous. No anthropologist would suggest that the winners should stop and spend their efforts supporting the weak, yet here we are in the US with a sizeable percentage of the population paying NO income tax, etc., to support the common good. Amazing.
Quote:
We haven't reached the critical point here yet, but the day will come. Taxing the middle-middle and lower-middle class will gradually push them downward into the ranks of the poor, and the U.S. will become the two-class society that has been the pendulum point in pretty much every human society that ever had a revolution and turned the tables.

To stave off that eventuality, however, the Democrats are doing TW a big favor by throwing a few bones to TPMC, in the form of taxes that still leave TW with ample wealth and comfort,
Oh, please. What arrogance. Who are the Dem's to decide how much of their own money people should keep? This is the famous lynch-mob mentality.... point at the small, successful percentage of the crowd and convince the rest of the crowd that they *deserve* those peoples' money. Let's sack'em!!!! That's the same crap Boss Tweed used in Tammany Hall and that the first Daly and all the other Democrat "machines" used. I can't believe you're spouting this stuff like it's some modern idea.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2007, 07:37 PM   #25
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,025
United_States
Offline
Re: The New "Tax Breaks"

Geez, Mike. How many middle-middle/lower-middle class Democrat congressmen do you suppose there are?

The people who are voting for the measure are going to be paying the taxes themselves.

Why is it okay for one group to have prevailed over the nation for so long a period, and now not okay for another group to have a chance? The pendulum has to swing, and now it swings toward the social- and common good, outward-minded, rather than the self- and inward-minded.

It's not forever, Mike. The pendulum will swing back your way before long. Then it will swing away again...

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 01-08-2007 at 07:48 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:47 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate