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Old 12-27-2006, 12:17 PM   #326
Cady Goldfield
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Mark Jakabcsin wrote:
Bears are hungry. Bears seek out food. Bears learn to find food. Bears eat food when they find it. Bears will continually go back to the same place as long as food continues to appear. That is what bears do.

Continually leaving food out in the open and then blaming the bear for eating it is pointless, silly and non-productive. Not feeding the bears seems to be the better approach.

MJ
Seems to me the bears are being fed, now, if they seek it out. But if it's offered and they turn their fuzzy snout up at it, they shouldn't snarl.

I hear Yogi is filching pic-a-nic baskets again... and is unstoppable.
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:20 PM   #327
MM
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
That answer is quite simple, although getting some people to accept and actively follow this advice of the Founder is trying, at times.
Whew, you can say that again.

Let me help with that advice:

Quote:
Osensei wrote:
In these teachings listen most
To the rhythm of the strike and thrust
To train in the basics (omote)
Is to practice the very secrets of the art.
Train in the basics. So, you train in internal skills, which are the basics for ki/kokyu/etc. Hiriki no yosei is basics, furutama is basics, funakogi is basics. All those were used to build internal skills.

Quote:
Osensei wrote:
Progress comes to
those who train in the
inner and outer factors.
Ah, *inner* and *outer*. So, you must train in internal skills (inner) while at the same time, train in techniques (outer).

Quote:
Osensei wrote:
Do not chase after "secret techniques,"
for everything is right before your eyes!
As Ellis has stated and I use again and again, Hidden in Plain Sight.

Quote:
Osensei wrote:
Aiki!
The root of the power of love
A love that must grow ever broader.
See, Aiki. The internal harmony generated by doing internal training and building internal skills is the root power of love.

Man, you were right. The answer is really quite simple.

(All done in slightly sarcastic, yet humorous tones, for those who can't tell.)
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:29 PM   #328
Mike Sigman
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
That answer is quite simple, although getting some people to accept and actively follow this advice of the Founder is trying, at times. Of course, many of them do not, or no longer, practice aikido.
No, no.... the really sad part is that many of the people not following the advice of the Founder are in fact not only "doing Aikido", they're "teaching Aikido".... and still doing it wrong. Touche'!

BTW, the real problem is that this type of movement means, to some extent (how much depends on which path you follow), that you have to change the way you move, the way you source your power, and a number of other things. It ain't easy.

What it means is that an "Aikido Expert" who doesn't know how to move in this fashion has to massively change the way he moves (and therefore the timing, etc.) of every technique and "subtlety" that he already "knows".

Take for instance in Ki-Aikido where everyone starts out trying to move softly, letting the actual ki-strength do the work, and the kokyu-power be the basis of all techniques. They've already got a foot in the door. An "expert" or "teacher" coming over from some style where all he's learned is normal-muscle usage combined with an occasional spot of "use the body center to help the technique", simply cannot function as anymore than a beginner in the Ki-style method of doing Aikido. Think about that. It's a HUGE point.

Guess what. Although I'm not sold on all the training methods of the Ki Society (simple opinion.... can be hashed out in the dojo, etc., someday), they're still far more on the right track to Aikido than most of the western Aikido that I've seen. So if Erick is going to start pointing out who does Aikido and who doesn't, it's a conversation that is like a can of worms.

But I ain't had this much fun since Uncle Ed went out back to use the outhouse and the hogs et him.

Mike
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:36 PM   #329
Cady Goldfield
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
But I ain't had this much fun since Uncle Ed went out back to use the outhouse and the hogs et him.

Mike
Well, that explains why Mike keeps responding to Erick's posts, as much as he bortches that they are a waste of his time!
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:39 PM   #330
Jim Sorrentino
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Hi Cady,
Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Get out in the world and experience things hands-on, then come back and say it's just a figment of many ancient and modern MAs' imaginations. So much easier to debate it from your comfy chair, though, with zero experience! I get the sense it's just a topic of idle debate for you, or you would climb outta your box and truly seek the answers...
So did you go see Ikeda-sensei when he was in the Boston area a couple of months ago? If yes, what did you think? If no, why not? He will be at Aikido Shobukan Dojo in DC in February, by the way --- see http://www.aikido-shobukan.org/seminars/?seminarid=53.

Jim
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:42 PM   #331
Erick Mead
 
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Whoa. You had a seance and summoned the ghosts of M. Ueshiba and S. Takeda?! Well, they were probably yanking your chain, Erick.
I just judge from what the man said and did in teaching the art we have and practice. Since everyone who doesn't actually practice Aikido has these deep insights into its supposed "lost secret," I had assumed they were the one's channeling.

On the specific subject of what revelation Ueshiba received from Takeda, here is an interview of Tomiki Shihan from Aikido Journal #43, (1981):
Quote:
Tomiki wrote:
Q: How much was Ueshiba really influenced by Omotokyo? How much did he borrow from the religion? How much did he create by himself?

Tomiki: Though I can't really say how much he developed from the side of technique, I guess we can say there was a great change based on a "change of heart" (kokoro no tenkan). And that is where we find the relationship between the character of Sokaku Takeda Sensei and Ueshiba Sensei. This Takeda Sensei was a martial artist in the old sense: when he saw a person he saw an enemy. If I were to try to give an example I would tell you that if a person happened to come visit him he would "greet" them by instantly grabbing the steel chopsticks from the brazier and shouting, "Who is there?" He would storm out to the entry hall. He was like someone from the "Age of the Warring Countries" (Sengoku Jidai, 1482-1558), who saw his seven proverbial "enemies" in every group of people. He was a man of deep distrust, whose personality never revealed the slightest suki, or vulnerable point. If you happened to ask even a small question he would bellow, "Dare you doubt my technique, kid!" That's how violent his temperament was! Since he was like that, it's not surprising that Ueshiba Sensei was ill-treated by him. So I think that entering a particular faith was a psychological reinforcement for him.

Ueshiba Sensei often said, "Budo is Love". This is one of those "changes of heart".

After all, though, budo concerns itself with life and death situations in which the main question is will one get out alive. It was for the sake of confronting techniques that delve into this area that not only Ueshiba Sensei, but also a number of other great people in the past exposed their bodies to danger. But, on the contrary, the more they try to enter this world of danger of violence, they end up going in a direction that contradicts it all. By placing themselves into the realm of life and death they find that they are confronted again with a deep delving into the problem of death. They find they have embarked upon a spiritual or religious path.
The teaching of ai-uchi in budo is that anyone suitably willing to disregard his own death can find an opening for a mutual kill. This palpable fear is vibrantly present in the above depicton of Takeda. A definitive picture of an "unrelaxed" guy, if you ask me.

Ai-uchi, however, as Takeda viewed it was satsu jinken, the death- dealing sword. O Sensei's awakening "to the meaning of budo" that occurred with Takeda accompanied his "change of heart" according to Tomiki. If ai-uchi is true of ai-uchi no satsu jinken then it is just as true of ai-uchi no katsu jinken as well. If by accepting my death I may thereby kill the enemy -- then by actively seeking an opening to save the life of the enemy, your own life may be saved as well.

This is katsu jinken, the life-giving sword, and the reason that Aikido as an art follows the heiho (strategy) of the sword, and not the strategy of Takeda's jujutsu, even though it employs a selection of his techniques as tactical tools. One cannot effectively save another from a deadly fate if one is already dead. If you accomplish your objective of saving him, you have to live long enough to do it. And since his attack is the unwitting opening to his own danger in ai-uchi no satsu jinken, saving him necessitates concluding the attack that put him in danger in the first place.

So relax, already, and just practice.
Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
So much easier to debate it from your comfy chair,...
NOT THE COMFY CHAIR!!!!! AAAAAAAAGHH!!

And that's way too relaxed.

And I don't debate this from the proverbial armchair any more than Ellis Amdur does, although we handle it from different perspectives. You should read his article pondering the serious problem of moral hazard the opposite approach creates, as illustrated by Tomiki's depiction of Takeda.

Ironically enough, Ellis probably was actually sitting in a comfy chair when some of the events described occurred. http://www.koryu.com/library/eamdur3.html
Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
[Describing the tramautized sociopathic personality] ...Their capacity to form attachments to others is minimal or even absent. When contact with another human being engenders a feeling of sensitivity or vulnerability, their reaction is often a deep and profound pain, the pain felt by the exile upon tasting the scent of home on the wind, a pain so deep that they may respond by trying to extinguish that which causes the feeling, which is usually the capacity for sensitivity, or even, in the most extreme cases, the human being who evokes the response. ...There are, then, a few people, who have schooled themselves to have no openings, no vulnerabilities whatsoever, to respond with detachment to what they feel they have to do or want to do. If that sounds dangerously close to the image we have of the warrior, good! It's food for thought isn't it? ... as if jerked by an electric prod, [he] leapt back to his feet, and shadow-boxed ... with a kind of wired glee, prancing like an imp in the coals of a fire. At my request, he sat down again and slumped, torpid as a lizard on a rock. It was as if his immobility was as much an act of will as his movement--he never could be said to be relaxed.
...
Am I a moral failure in that I did not kill him? ... When I interviewed that boy, I knew what he was capable of doing. ... I could have saved the child he raped an unimaginable world of pain, and probably other children, too, when he finally gets out of prison. ... My own answer to this question is the choice I made, ...

What, then, is the sword that gives life?
There, in a nutshell, lies my concern about the advocacy of this approach to Aikido.

The point lies in both cases, victim and victimizer, whoi are ultimately unified into one person. Juji ( 十 ) the cross shape -- the upright being cut down. The innocent, or outmatched victim who shrinks from ai-uchi, leaves their killing blow waiting around in their hearts to get its licks in. It is not their fault that this happens, but it does happen. This responsibility for further acceptance of an already unjust evil is also forced upon them. All of it being immensely unfair.

But it is their responsibility since no one else can strike that blow or lay it aside for them. If they do not take it for their own, it may take them instead, as Ellis witnessed. Many are drawn to the martial arts for this reason, I might add, although the moral problem is not cured merely by taking them up. If they do not accept it, they may ultimately become one more unwitting link in this chain of horror.

We need profound acceptance, not avoidance, of undesired acts. We cannot fight against or resist this evil. It is within us and it actively seeks us to guide our actions.

We all have an unstruck blow lurking in our darker places. We will strike that blow, sooner or later. We cannot do away with it. We can confront it, we can accept it, and we can convert it ("turn with" it). There is this gift of ai-uchi within us that allows us to do that - but it allows for either good or for ill. We can save our own future victims from ourselves and the violence we have inherited. Or we can destroy them and ourselves, too.

As Ellis' sad tale intimates -- posture is a moral guide. And tension is a sure sign of illness, as ease and relaxation are signs of health. "Not being moved" in the manner of the skills is not a realistic or emotionally healthy option. Certainly, it is not a relaxed option.

That moral tension waiting to be unsprung was beaten into us in one form or another, and will only come out the same way. If we look for it and accept it we can strike the life-giving blow, or the death-dealing blow, just as easily. We must accept the necessary personal pain (shugyo) in either case -- but in vastly different forms depending on our choice. One destroys - the other transforms. One is Aikido - the other is not.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:46 PM   #332
Mike Sigman
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

I was going to read that whole post, Erick, but the scroll-wheel on my mouse broke from over-use.
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:50 PM   #333
Cady Goldfield
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Jim Sorrentino wrote:
Hi Cady,So did you go see Ikeda-sensei when he was in the Boston area a couple of months ago? If yes, what did you think? If no, why not? He will be at Aikido Shobukan Dojo in DC in February, by the way --- see http://www.aikido-shobukan.org/seminars/?seminarid=53.

Jim
Sorry to say that I had to work that Saturday, Jim. Truth be told, if I hadn't had to work I would have been doing my "regular" training, as free Saturdays are rare for me, and training time is precious.

But I will make a point to attend an Ikeda seminar next time he is in Massachusetts, and I will write to you about it.

C
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:54 PM   #334
Jim Sorrentino
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Hi Ellis,
Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
So, if you are in a bar and someone - say an obnoxious drunk grabs you and won't let go - like this <he grabbed my arm hard> - what would you do?" I immediatedly responded with a nikkyo (and I was and am pretty good at this technique - I was practicing on an almost daily basis with the then uchi-deshi at the Aikikai, circa 1977, as they liked to slam around the big guy). My instructor countered the technique, as I recall, with some simple shifts of posture and redirection of force.
I enjoyed that story (as well as the one about John L. Sullivan). But seriously, would an "obnoxious drunk" have been able to counter your nikkyo with the "simple shifts of posture and redirection of force" that your Araki-ryu teacher used? If the answer is no, then nikkyo seems like a good choice. If the answer is yes, then nikkyo (or as Ikeda-sensei might say, your nikkyo ) is not a good response to that situation.

Jim
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:54 PM   #335
MM
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Sorry to say that I had to work that Saturday, Jim. Truth be told, if I hadn't had to work I would have been doing my "regular" training, as free Saturdays are rare for me, and training time is precious.

But I will make a point to attend an Ikeda seminar next time he is in Massachusetts, and I will write to you about it.

C
Cady,
You missed an excellent opportunity, then. Ikeda sensei is definitely worth seeing. IMO, anyway.

Mark
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:55 PM   #336
Erick Mead
 
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
.. you're giving off the impression that you really don't know exactly what we're talking about. No problem... I'm sure that will be ascertained and publicized before this is all over.
What's with the subliminal threats Mike? that'ts the third or fourth time you have swung that dead cat around. Tiresome, really. I have no reputation to damage. Truly. I am not seeking any, either for that matter. Reputation does not lead to truth. I just point out things that happen to be true. It really requires no skill or personal merit.
Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Maybe Ikeda Sensei should have invited you to give the kokyu instruction at Summer Camp. I'll suggest it to him.
-- Which would consist of me falling down everytime he made the stupidly suggested mistake of trying to use me as uke ...
Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Every substantive contribution to the conversation should be a welcome one.
You're welcome.
Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Every "already there in the pecking order so leave me alone with this Ki stuff" instructor should be looked at askance. IMO.
At which point, Mike laughably reveals that he:

1) REALLY doesn't know me or my place in the world, and
2) has not talked to any one who really does.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:57 PM   #337
MM
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Jim Sorrentino wrote:
Hi Cady,So did you go see Ikeda-sensei when he was in the Boston area a couple of months ago? If yes, what did you think? If no, why not? He will be at Aikido Shobukan Dojo in DC in February, by the way --- see http://www.aikido-shobukan.org/seminars/?seminarid=53.

Jim
Hi Jim,
I'm still trying to make that one. Work has me scheduled for training that week -- provided the budget money goes through. Although, they're scheduling me for Orlando. Heh. If I don't go to training, I'll be at the Ikeda seminar. If I do go to training, I'll be at the AikiWeb seminar.

Course, my luck will be that I won't go to training and the Ikeda seminar will be full. *sigh*.

Mark
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Old 12-27-2006, 01:59 PM   #338
Cady Goldfield
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote:
Cady,
You missed an excellent opportunity, then. Ikeda sensei is definitely worth seeing. IMO, anyway.

Mark
So Jim tells me. I'll certainly try to make it next time he's in town.
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Old 12-27-2006, 02:06 PM   #339
Jim Sorrentino
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
But I will make a point to attend an Ikeda seminar next time he is in Massachusetts, and I will write to you about it.
Fair enough. He will be at Shobu Aikido of Boston October 19 - 21. But I hope to meet you, Dan, Mike, Rob John, and Akuzawa before then.

Jim
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Old 12-27-2006, 02:13 PM   #340
Ron Tisdale
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Ditto on Ikeda Sensei.

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-27-2006, 02:15 PM   #341
Cady Goldfield
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

It would be interesting to be able to compare his aikido now and in a year, now that he has been exposed to Ushiro, and realizes that aikido must now move in a "new" direction.
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Old 12-27-2006, 02:21 PM   #342
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Re: "my Nikkyo"

Reply to Jimmy from up above:

Well, you tell me. You've experienced my nikkyo.

But have you experienced my metaphor????

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Old 12-27-2006, 02:24 PM   #343
Erick Mead
 
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
Reminds me of the story of John L. Sullivan shoulder checked on a train by a young thug. Upon Sullivan saying "excuse me" as the kid passed, his friend remonstrated, "You don't have to be so damn polite! You're the heavy weight champion of the world." Sullivan said, "I'm the heavy weight champion of the world. I can afford to be polite."
If any translation is needed, why would anyone object to any training method that would make your aikido more powerful?
Unless Aikido is NOT about power? Which your anecdote illustrates beautifully, BTW. Just because he was the champion didn't mean he had to be polite, any more than just because someone else wasn't the champion would mean he had license to be rude in compensation, either.

Ob-topic. His training allowed him the ability to accept and not to be stressed/tensed/unrelaxed by the fact of the blow. I daresay he could have clocked the guy without tensing up overmuch, in any event.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-27-2006, 02:27 PM   #344
Erick Mead
 
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
I was going to read that whole post, Erick, but the scroll-wheel on my mouse broke from over-use.
Too bad. The good parts at the bottom all belong to Ellis.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-27-2006, 02:44 PM   #345
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
"Not being moved" in the manner of the skills is not a realistic or emotionally healthy option. Certainly, it is not a relaxed option.
Not debating the way you have the above written, Erick. But am I right in assuming that you think the point of the "skills" being discussed (in this "relaxation" thread), is about not being moved? I haven't been able to read the entire thread, so apologies if you've already clarified this.

thanks,
Adam
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Old 12-27-2006, 02:47 PM   #346
Jim Sorrentino
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Re: "my Nikkyo"

Hi Ellis,
Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
Well, you tell me. You've experienced my nikkyo.
But only when I've been sober! And let's not start again with remarks about the spirit of aikido...
Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
But have you experienced my metaphor????
Yes --- that's why I keep reading you!

Jim
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:18 PM   #347
Erick Mead
 
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Adam Bauder wrote:
... am I right in assuming that you think the point of the "skills" being discussed (in this "relaxation" thread), is about not being moved?
The "skills" that the advocates seem to find missing in AIkido sound pretty much just like good old fashioned kokyu tanden ho to me. They seem to deny that this is the case, or else Mike calls me names and reckons me ungrateful for denying God's gift of which they are the missionaries, and says I am ignorant and ugly too. Which is probably true generally -- but not entirely so on this point.

They have this "test" of pushing without being moved. Unobjectionable as that may seem as a simple training device, the recurrent and emphatic emphasis on that in this and other threads by Mike and Dan as the acid test of "the skills" belies the problem I have identified in this suse of them as it relates to Aikido.

Moreover, the self-absorption, literally disregarding "the other guy" as Dan has said, which they advocate, is very troubling as a training regimen for Aikido, for the reasons I have mentioned. It is antithetical to my experience of kokyu tanden ho and the teaching that I have received as a unifying practice to make two bodies into one coherent whole.

Basically, you train for what you do. And if you train not to be moved -- you are exercising a will "not to be moved," which is just another way of saying "resisting" the opponent's desire that I do move. And I daresay that a sword or a knife would not care about one's will on this score.

And that is very problematic to me if posited as being some lost "root" of Aikido, since it is counter to some very direct statements on this point by O Sensei, (as well as my own experience in the traditions of several of his deshi, but upon which I put far less weight).

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:24 PM   #348
Thomas Campbell
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
"The body is the door to the gardens of the soul." Some Persian, I forget who.

[snip]
"Even narrower" as in focussed more narrowly on the body (and one's one body) disregarding, as Dan has said "the other guy." Disregarding the commonalities of the two souls about to meet in the most intimate physical and spiritual embrace outside of a marriage bed. If you think that violence is not intimate, in every sense, then you really do have much to learn.

[snip]
Pardon my intrusion into this engaging thread, but I have a question--which I'd enjoy hearing feedback on from anyone, but in particular Erick, Mike, Cady, Dan, Rob John, Ellis--and that is:

Isn't the effect of the "internal body skills" to blend with the incoming force of the opponent's attack . . . but within the uke/defender's body . . . preparatory to returning the force, deflecting it, redirecting it? In other words, "tenkan" within uke's body, rather than externally by stepping and changing the position of uke's body relative to the attacker?

If so, that would seem to place Dan's characterization of budo--being able to stop the spear and therefore being in a position to prevent the attack from moving further and causing harm, in a position, really, to extend mercy--more in line with what I think Erick is saying.

"Resolving in-yo in your own body"--tension and softness caused both by contact with the incoming force from the opponent, i.e., the physical force component, but also your own neurophysiological response, i.e., fear, adrenaline surge, breathing, emotional responses--would seem analogous to aikido's tenkan-by-stepping-and-turning. And it would seem to carry lessons for the wider world outside the dojo every bit as useful as any aikido lesson . . .

. . . including a lesson about the context of relaxation in a martial setting. The physiological training to be able to surf the adrenaline surge in the face of danger, to not become frozen or emotionally rocket-thrust into the fray (cf. Systema breathing practices). But relaxation can also be built on the confidence of skill forged and tested. Ellis Amdur wrote elsewhere about softness: "'soft' is skill--a matter of efficiency and grace, not an otherworldly power." Relaxation, too, may be considered a matter of efficiency and grace.

It's been many years since regular aikido training for me, and the only practice in my own experience where I've encountered anything resembling the internal body skills described by Rob, Dan, Mike, et al. is in taijiquan. So if my question above is unclear or my conclusion indicative of fuzzy thinking, chalk it up to inexperience and/or the hydrocodone for my fractured spine. But any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
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Old 12-27-2006, 03:27 PM   #349
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
The "skills" that the advocates seem to find missing in AIkido sound pretty much just like good old fashioned kokyu tanden ho to me. They seem to deny that this is the case, or else Mike calls me names and reckons me ungrateful for denying God's gift of which they are the missionaries, and says I am ignorant and ugly too. Which is probably true generally -- but not entirely so on this point.

They have this "test" of pushing without being moved.
Actually, I do not have any "test" like that. My test is for someone to push me and I let them move me. It's enough to tell me what I want to know.
Quote:
Moreover, the self-absorption, literally disregarding "the other guy" as Dan has said, which they advocate, is very troubling as a training regimen for Aikido, for the reasons I have mentioned. It is antithetical to my experience of kokyu tanden ho and the teaching that I have received as a unifying practice to make two bodies into one coherent whole.
You're missing the point, Erick. Everyone keeps telling you that, but still you go on theorizing. Worse yet, you try yourself before the jury and keep returning a verdict of "innocent" on yourself.
Quote:
Basically, you train for what you do. And if you train not to be moved -- you are exercising a will "not to be moved,"...
That's absurd. It's like saying that if you do Fune Kogi Undo you're in danger of going into spasmodic rowing practice if you're ever attacked. I think everyone here with an IQ above room temperature knows that you're not in danger of losing your soul if you do Tohei and Ueshiba's tests where they stood immobile to an Uke's push. You're so ..... well, "dramatic".

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 12-27-2006, 04:17 PM   #350
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,025
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Unless Aikido is NOT about power? Which your anecdote illustrates beautifully, BTW. Just because he was the champion didn't mean he had to be polite, any more than just because someone else wasn't the champion would mean he had license to be rude in compensation, either.

Ob-topic. His training allowed him the ability to accept and not to be stressed/tensed/unrelaxed by the fact of the blow. I daresay he could have clocked the guy without tensing up overmuch, in any event.
You missed the point, Erick. Sullivan had huge power. That's why he had the luxury of knowing that he could have trashed the thug, but choosing to be "polite" (really, to give the thug a chance to walk on and not get himself in trouble).

A person with no power of body or will would also have been "polite" (really, to supplicate himself before and ingratiate himself to someone who could cause him great physical harm).

Two cases of "polite," two very different reasons for being "polite."

That Sullivan was heavyweight champion of the world is irrelevant -- only a title. The bottom line was that Sullivan had great physical and mental power, which put him over the thug whether the thug knew it or not. Fortunately for the thug, he didn't have to learn the truth because Sullivan had chosen to let him live.

Power is not a dirty word, and it's okay for aikido to have it. It's a tool to promote peace. I think a lot of aikidoka balk at that, because they may see their own possession of real power as a form of benign dictatorship. Which, of course, it could become in some ways, but it beats being a malevalent bully. And it beats being the poor peasant who's bearing the brunt of the bully's malevalence. Better to be powerful than weak, and to be able to use that power for the good of the weak and helpless.

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 12-27-2006 at 04:28 PM.
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