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Old 12-24-2006, 03:23 PM   #276
Cady Goldfield
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Oh, Justin, just go ahead and say what you really want to say, seeing as it's Christma Eve:

Bah, Humbug!

Oh, and expect three spirits to visit you tonight, starting at the stroke of midnight: The Spectre of Internal Skills, the Sprite of Kokyu, and the Phantom of Ki. By dawn, you'll be seeing things in a different light, I guarantee you.

Merry Christmas.

lol
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Old 12-25-2006, 05:52 PM   #277
statisticool
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Oh, and expect three spirits to visit you tonight, starting at the stroke of midnight: The Spectre of Internal Skills, the Sprite of Kokyu, and the Phantom of Ki. By dawn, you'll be seeing things in a different light, I guarantee you.

Merry Christmas.

lol
They blasted me with their ground strength vectors.

I'm wondering if Kiss. Ueshiba understood these body mechanics the way you know who discusses them. I'm not able to find it in Kiss.'s writings anywhere. I'd think that of anyone, Kiss. would have been taught these things being O'Sensei's son and all and training with him for a really really long time, rather than anybody else, if these things as you know who describes them are really fundamental to aikido as claimed.

Last edited by statisticool : 12-25-2006 at 05:57 PM.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 12-25-2006, 06:40 PM   #278
Mike Sigman
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote:
I'm wondering if ....
Go look, then. Quit talking so much.
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Old 12-25-2006, 10:56 PM   #279
Upyu
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

If anything, Justin's posts strengthen the axis between my ears
I'm getting really good at passing the "ki" in between them, lol.
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Old 12-26-2006, 12:12 PM   #280
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Justin Wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
Also, on a simplier level. If we sparred NHB, and I was able to beat you by simply laying on you and moving gently and not even get out of breath....while you are gasping for air and using all your might to keep me from submitting you...what do you call that?


If you were to beat a person in that manner, an observer would probably says you used muscle, momentum, and friction. Are you putting that forth as an example of 'internal strength'? What distinguishes it from efficient use of ol external stuff?

Are you reading my post, or just selectively picking out the parts you want to hear or read?

I said there was no separating internal or external IMO. Again, you can call it what you want, I don't care. Efficient use of energy or what not, it does not matter.

Just think real hard about why it is that I am able to be more efficient than you. Experience? Are you younger, faster, stronger....in better shape? Probably so.

How do you account for the fact that I am able to out think, move more actively and efficiently. Experience? Actually, in theory, you should be able to read a book, memorize the techniques mentally, then use your brain/muscle to beat me since your synapse are probably able to fire faster.

So how do I beat younger guys? It starts with a thought, a perception, an experience. It starts from electrons. particles of light, all that good stuff, it gets built up to a mechanical motion...a response.

How do dogs know what their masters are going to do. Instincts right? they what for subtle clues in the enviornment, based on things they have observed keenly. They are able to read the energy and subtle clues.

So, what do you call all that?

It ain't special, some people are just able to read things better than others.

Do you really think KI is any different.

The Dali Lama is reputedly refined his mind through meditation to be able to do some special things in percieving people.

It is all related.

How do you account for paralyzed people being able to walk again when it is physically impossible. They can reprogram their minds.

I read a story a while back about a blind kid that was able to develop basically sonar perception by listening to sound and clicks.

What do you call that? Yeah...it is simple physics...all of it.

Go ahead, be blind to the fact that humans have the ability to expand their potential in many, many subtle ways. Kokyu is just the tip of the ice berg. It is your loss, not mine...so what do I really care? I Don't to be honest.
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Old 12-26-2006, 01:21 PM   #281
DH
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Do symbol Re: How to teach and train relaxation

W'ere far into discussing these topics. So it bears repeating yet again.
No one..... is stating that what they are doing is singular and unknown. In fact if one reviews: it is stated over and over that this knowledge of internal skills is out there. Just rarely seen.

But again upon review the evolving history on Aikido Journal and here has been more or less:
1. They don't exist.
2. They were never the basis for anything in Aikido
3. Ueshiba go it from China and the Chinese arts- or from Shinto rituals..and not from Daito ryu
4. That they were not in Daito ryu
5. Mike's skill was Bogus
6. Ark's skill was Bogus
7. My skill was Bogus

Over the course of two years we have -in general- discussed the undeniable abilities of Takeda, Sagawa, and Kodo to exhibit the same skills if not better skills than Ueshiba and explore the very real possibility that since we all .....SAY.... these skill are everywhere- that Ueshiba could have just as easily as not- gotten ALL of his skills from Takeda. As he himself proclaimed "Takeda opened my eyes to the truth of Budo." Then cited sources in all manner of books and interviews of men in arts from training with Takeda, folks who trained with Ueshiba in Aikido, in Fighting spirit of Japan with referrence to Judo and a (Surprise) Aikijujutsu guy, that these skils were trained in Judo too. Then Karate and to the older CMA.
All, for some strange reason pointing to pushing and pulling and solo training as a source for power and understanding.

So to be very explicit -folks were/are stating these skills are everywhere in one form or another in Asian arts, just not openly shown.

Back on point.
Then as time passed a series of folks felt the three guys who yak about it the most Mike, Rob, and me. They reported back they are real and they are "diifferent" than what these Aikido men have felt from their teachers on one level or another.

At the very least we seem to have moved forward from "they don't exist" to the possibilty that they do indeed and now are discussing their relevance in Aikido or any Asian art-with no real consensus. The pendulum arc or polars being; some say they are the very root of it-others say nonsense.

Some are hanging on to skeptisism even in the face of their very own people testifying to the reality of these very real skills. But that's to be expected. The better educated in the CMA who are very familiar with internal skills are using their best Jewish accents and simple saying
"So this is news?"

In the mean time it appears dozens more from Aikido are going to get out this year and train in these skills. Thus they will have stepped- many for the first time-into the heart of all Asian martial arts. Hopefully they will bring it back and re-educate their western teachers about the basics they turned their backs on or never knew.

Ikeda was bold enough to look outside of Aikido; at Systema and in Ushiro's skills and to make a bold statement that change is needed in Aikido.
Its good to see others following a true leader.

In any event it seems almost unbelievable to still be reading folks denials and skeptisism. But we have all seen the skill levels of the unimaginative by-the-numbers guys .Good, rote, "do what they were told" workers who got firmly ensconced in the arts for decades. Time-in has never been a reliable indicator or promise of either skill or enlightenment. With any luck over the next decade the lowest common denominator will have basic bodyskills (hopefully not learned elsewhere) that will challenge the teachers still left walking through these technique based body arts while asleep-at-the-wheel. Just as computers made dinosaurs of Executives who could not do their own typing...so it will be for instructors of anything called "Asian" who are not conversant in these skills.
Should be a fun decade.

Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 12-26-2006 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 12-26-2006, 01:44 PM   #282
statisticool
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

It seems O'Sensei didn't talk about vectors, Kiss. Ueshiba didn't talk about vectors, and Moriteru Ueshiba doesn't talk about vectors.

I wonder if any technique where one leaves the ground can exist in an internal martial art if by definition one needs the strength of the ground to make it internal.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 12-26-2006, 01:53 PM   #283
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
Are you reading my post, or just selectively picking out the parts you want to hear or read?
I'm responding to the parts I personally considered important.

Quote:
I said there was no separating internal or external IMO. Again, you can call it what you want, I don't care. Efficient use of energy or what not, it does not matter.
OK, then what are you debating exactly? I'm addressing those who consider what they call 'internal' different from what they call 'external'.

Quote:
How do you account for paralyzed people being able to walk again when it is physically impossible.
It obviously wasn't physically impossible, then.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 12-26-2006, 02:09 PM   #284
Mike Sigman
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote:
It seems O'Sensei didn't talk about vectors, Kiss. Ueshiba didn't talk about vectors, and Moriteru Ueshiba doesn't talk about vectors.

I wonder if any technique where one leaves the ground can exist in an internal martial art if by definition one needs the strength of the ground to make it internal.
Gee.... I had a couple of native Chinese point out to me that "energy" was not a good definition for "jin" at all, despite the usage by Smith and others of "energy". They said a better term would be "force vector". Turns out that's very true. Maybe instead of always looking to play "gotcha", you should start doing some research, if you're really interested. But you're not really interested, are you? You've got some imaginary vendetta you're playing out in which you play the role of "Smarter Than Other People". In your mind.

Mike Sigman
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Old 12-26-2006, 02:10 PM   #285
Mike Sigman
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote:
who consider what they call 'internal' different from what they call 'external'.
Why don't you find out what "nei jin" means, as opposed to "wai jin" and report back to us? Or would you rather keep contending? I think we all know the answer, having seen a number of your posts.

Mike Sigman
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Old 12-26-2006, 03:08 PM   #286
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Dan,

I for one, have no way of knowing if your (or any one elses) skills are bogus or not. At this point, I only have hope that maybe one day I will have the opportunity to meet with one of you and learn from what you have apparently harnessed and codified in some way

I am not much about discussing the technicalities on all this vector this, vector that...simply would like to learn how to do these things and be able to employ them in daily life and in martial situations that are more than simple exercises that are very controlled in nature.
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:11 PM   #287
DH
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Hi Kevin
As I said before...and am hesitent since many here seem to keep talking past each other....over and over and over.
I'm not talking about testing and fixed exercises either.
If I talk about anything else I tend to get into trouble. My goals and aims are clear. MMA. I only care where it works.... there.
Testing is testing for other reasons. And its a neutral way to talk with others. If you bring up fighting- what does that do? Draws their minds back into technique.
Talk about a static test?
They think you're talking about tricks and shortcuts.
Many are so firmly ingrained and embedded into their way they canle even begin to cope with thinking any other way. Its sets up a conlfict within themselves so they don't truly even hear what you are actually saying to them.
Oh well.

From this side it seems to make sense to me.
Solo training, testing, playing and then practical use.
I don't know any simpler way to say it.

Those who say they can do these things VS those who can do these things.....shows.
Those who get it ....well.....get it. It all makes sense. To them


And...I still prefer to be cordial and nice about the whole thing and make folks laugh and have fun. Anyone who loves the arts will love this stuff.

Happy holidays
Dan

Last edited by DH : 12-26-2006 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 12-26-2006, 04:28 PM   #288
DH
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Hey Kevin
I Think of it like this.
At its very core it isn't about who is better. Its about WHAT is a better way to train.
We're all trying to just get better Right?
So Its as if we-together- are looking out ...lets say...at "it"
as our better.
Not who.
Make more sense?
Whats great is this stuff isn't style specific. You can do it and leave a martial prejudice at home.
And Ueshiba said?
"Takeda opened my eyes to true Budo." (internal skills)

Ueshiba opened our eyes
"That you don't have to cause harm with it."
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 12-26-2006 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 12-26-2006, 07:26 PM   #289
Ellis Amdur
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Whats great is this stuff isn't style specific. You can do it and leave a martial prejudice at home.
And Ueshiba said?
"Takeda opened my eyes to true Budo." (internal skills)

Ueshiba opened our eyes
"That you don't have to cause harm with it."
I don't have anything to add. I just wanted to quote it to read it again. Left me smiling. Never been more succinctly and elegantly.

Best

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Old 12-26-2006, 08:30 PM   #290
statisticool
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Gee.... I had a couple of native Chinese point out to me that "energy" was not a good definition for "jin" at all, despite the usage by Smith and others of "energy". They said a better term would be "force vector".
So? Who are these un-named people and what are their backgrounds? Just as many, actually probably tons more, native speakers, including dictionaries, say otherwise. (remember, Chinese like CMC, Ben Lo, and many others consulted Smith with his work)

But that is not the issue. I'm asking where did O'Sensei or any of his family (you know, the actual founders of the martial art under discussion) say specifically 'vector'. Not your interpretation of what the word is, but their actual words.

Last edited by statisticool : 12-26-2006 at 08:35 PM.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 12-26-2006, 08:32 PM   #291
statisticool
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Why don't you find out what "nei jin" means, as opposed to "wai jin" and report back to us?
Why don't you work on answering some questions.

Do you believe that any technique where one leaves the ground can exist in an internal martial art if by definition one needs the strength of the ground to make it internal? Yes or no?

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 12-26-2006, 08:40 PM   #292
Mike Sigman
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote:
So? Who are these un-named people and what are their backgrounds? Just as many, actually probably tons more, native speakers, including dictionaries, say otherwise.

But that is not the issue. I'm asking where did O'Sensei or any of his family (you know, the actual founders of the martial art under discussion) say specifically 'vector'. Not your interpretation of what the word is, but their actual words.
You really simply don't know much about the subject, do you? Get at least a basis of knowledge before you start demanding people accede to your whims. Jin is jin. There is only one. Ki is Qi. Oh, BTW.... "jin" has a number of possible definitions; what happened was that the translators simply didn't understand it was a skill, not an "energy".
http://www.taiji-qigong.de/info/arti...ljin_en-2.html

But like I said, you're not really trying to debate the issue.... you simply want to cavil at every point because you don't know enough to debate the facts. You have worship pages for Cheng Man Ching, yet you assiduously avoid answering a simple question about his discussion of forces in "Thirteen Treatises". You're here only to make noise and show what a typical Cheng Man Ching follower is like. Most people, including most of the CMA world, got the idea long ago about the typical CMC followers.

Mike Sigman
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Old 12-26-2006, 08:50 PM   #293
Mike Sigman
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Justin Smith wrote:
Why don't you work on answering some questions.
Why? You never answer any. Where's the answer about CMC's force descriptions from Thirteen Chapters? You're not here for anything but to contend incessantly, looking somehow to prove me wrong about something you have no knowledge of. Get off my case.
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Old 12-26-2006, 09:21 PM   #294
Erick Mead
 
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Whats great is this stuff isn't style specific. You can do it and leave a martial prejudice at home.
And Ueshiba said?
"Takeda opened my eyes to true Budo." (internal skills)
-I don't have anything to add. I just wanted to quote it to read it again. Left me smiling. Never been more succinctly and elegantly.
That statement can be taken a number of different ways and it can't be shown that he meant it as you take it. More to the point -- "Budo = internal skills" is a vastly underinclusive categorization of Budo, what it means and may be applied to accomplish. Most of you do not practice in real conflict situations. I do -- everyday. Aikido plays a role in that -- everyday. Physical skills of any kind, much less internal "skills," largely, do not.
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Ueshiba opened our eyes
"That you don't have to cause harm with it."
The latter statement is undoubtedly true, but it applies to both the narrowly physical view of aikido, (and the even narrower view of internal work) as well as to the broader view of Budo - and of Aikido's place as a strategic art (heiho) as well as a do.

The writ of Aikido is far larger. I find lessons and application nearly everyday, in one form or another. Businessmen I know live in a world of different sorts of conflict than I do (though some cross over), but hard conflict nonetheless. Between them, these are the sorts of things that people usually kill over, so I suppose it is "real" enough as conflict goes. Other areas of life have their own native conflicts, but I write my criticism from what I know, and many of those spill over into my world, too.

Aikido taught me to relax into real conflicts as they develop, to take the center, and to be moved (in every sense). Good litigators do not make themselves vulnerable by being coldly passive and unemotional. We have to first sense something if we are to be able to exploit it to end the conflict on acceptable non-violent terms. And that, after all, is our function, and one that we share with Aikido. Law is budo. Go read what form of trial preceded "wager of law," if you doubt it.

My perspective is on these actual everyday conflicts, where the result ultimately is for men come with guns to take people's stuff or their freedom. Really, the only actual power I, or any lawyer, can excercise (without persuading a court to issue an order) is force people to sit there and answer my questions. And with that narrow blade a great deal of Aikido occurs.

Argument and persuasion, "logic" when it serves, but other means if it doesn't. We may not act in ways that might be expected from our feelings. Also a trait in common with the principles of Aikido. That does not mean we do not feel, or that we can afford not to.

If we are to persuade on grounds of moral or emotive arguments, we must understand the ways these sublter and more explosive tools work. To be effective they cannot be forced -- or they will be immediately be seen as false. They must be handled with ease, familiarity and genuine comfort-- in other words relaxed in in the situation at all times. Sort of like blasting with nitro. Tense and you stumble; stumble and you die. Kuzushi -- simple really. And people wonder why lawyers prefer cold logic -- sharper, but far safer.

Most of this is not remotely physical, although the subtext of my work is always about violence and the sanctioned uses of force. That's why people don't like lawyers. Our hands are usually ready on the hilts of the weapons that matter - most days.

The worst conflicts don't involve weapons, not even empty handed ones. Truly, it would be immensely more satisfying if they could be that simple. The worst weapons are not even physical. The hearts of men cut deeper than the finest sword. Where do internal skills aid in the practice of Aikido in that setting?

Training for relaxation in this sort of setting is the most likely use of the art of Aikido that anyone is likely to use in this age. And trust me, in this arena, and many others like it, YOU WILL BE MOVED -- the narrow focus of your "skills" has no useful place. Tell it to the men with the warrant and the shotguns.

Indeed, in this context, the oppositional contradictory tensions and counterpoises you all advocate hardly seems relaxed at all. In that setting, the undue focus on internal work almost seems to make aikido irrelevant in real world settings. Since I know that it is highly relevant and exceedingly useful, I conclude that the approach is fundamentally flawed, mainly by overemphasis. The problem is not in what is asserted, but what is denied.

I expound to some extent because the narrowing of Aikido's principles to this "be all and end all" of solipsistic internal work is so deeply troubling to me. It has no obvious referents to the strategic response of relaxation in the face of real conflict that I interpret in the context of this thread as being a central part of Aikido and the chief reason to practice an archaic and arcane budo in this modern age.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-26-2006, 09:25 PM   #295
Cady Goldfield
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Ah, crap. Ellis wrapped that topic up so nicely, short and sweet, and then Erick comes back from Christmas break...

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Old 12-26-2006, 09:47 PM   #296
Mike Sigman
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
....The latter statement is undoubtedly true, but it applies to both the narrowly physical view of aikido, (and the even narrower view of internal work)....
Aikido is physical, or people wouldn't have to dress up and go to the dojo and get a partner to work out with. Let's be realistic. If we get into these semantic glorious sunsets about Aikido, we can do the same thing about how ditch-digging is actually a broad, mentally-satisfying insight into the cosmos, as well.

But the main point I'd make is about the comment regarding "the even narrower view of internal work". We need to get this straight. The basic skills and subsets of what people are so blithely calling "internal" work is actually extremely broad. There are aspects of it in the secret lore of Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Chinese martial arts, calligraphy, dancing, tea ceremonies..... the same with Indian, Japanese, Indonesian, Thai, Malay, etc., etc., arts.

This is a huge and very ancient set of skills and usages. It is Aikido that is a narrow vestige of these skills, not the other way around, as surprising as that sounds. These skills, to some degree or another, are found referenced in stuff they pull from tombs that are B.C.E. The real question is not whether these things exist, how to do them, etc., but which came first ... the Yin-Yang cosmology or these skills.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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Old 12-26-2006, 10:04 PM   #297
statisticool
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Oh, BTW.... "jin" has a number of possible definitions; what happened was that the translators simply didn't understand it was a skill, not an "energy".
Native speakers, many of them martial artists, didn't understand what the term meant?

Quote:
You have worship pages for Cheng Man Ching, yet you assiduously avoid answering a simple question about his discussion of forces in "Thirteen Treatises".
You sure do have a funny definition of 'worship'.

Quote:
Most people, including most of the CMA world, got the idea long ago about the typical CMC followers.
More appeal to anonymous unverifiable people?

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 12-26-2006, 10:05 PM   #298
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Where's the answer about CMC's force descriptions from Thirteen Chapters?
As mentioned, I am asking you about your theories, your interpretation, not CMCs.

Quote:
Get off my case.
You're welcome to not respond, as you always were.

So, again, do you believe that any technique where one leaves the ground can exist in an internal martial art if by definition one needs the strength of the ground to make it internal? Yes or no?

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 12-26-2006, 10:06 PM   #299
Robert Rumpf
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
My goals and aims are clear. MMA. I only care where it works.... there.
To borrow a response from Ellis:

"I don't have anything to add. I just wanted to quote it to read it again. Left me smiling. Never been more succinctly and elegantly."

Unfortunately, I am not currently interested in MMA. I am interested in Aikido.

Quote:
O'Sensei wrote:
Since Aikido is not a Bu (martial method) of violence but rather a martial art of love, you do not behave violently. You convert the violent opponent in a gentle way. They cannot behave like hoodlums any longer.
To the extent that external/internal or any skills teach this idea, I am interested - and am willing to learn as I am able and can be taught by instructors and students I respect and whose technique, talents, or personality I envy or find insightful.. This is a reason why I have mentioned my limited Ki Society experience as being a positive example of examining such internal skills in an Aikido context. I'm currently not able to actualize this idea of Aikido as love, but I keep trying.

I've considered trying Ki Society again, but I like what I am learning now, and I have a life outside of Aikido. When I run out of learning here, or my situation changes, I may look for other things.

However.. the skills I have learned in Aikido that I've found most applicable outside the dojo to this point in my life are those that I get to practice when the technique fails, needs to be coaxed out of uke, or involves me being in danger.

If examining those things with a portion of my effort, and not focusing 100% of my efforts on internal skills within an MMA context is taking me "full speed... in the wrong direction" (as seems to be the theme) than so be it. I can come back around again later and get the stuff I missed. In the meantime, I am still learning.

Rob
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Old 12-26-2006, 11:09 PM   #300
Upyu
Dojo: Aunkai, Tokyo
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: How to teach and train relaxation

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Most of you do not practice in real conflict situations. I do -- everyday.
<sniffs Erick's Ego>

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
The latter statement is undoubtedly true, but it applies to both the narrowly physical view of aikido, (and the even narrower view of internal work) as well as to the broader view of Budo - and of Aikido's place as a strategic art (heiho) as well as a do.
"Narrower view" of Internal Work??
All the components you discussed, relaxation, heiho etc etc, all are inevitably trained and ingrained through internal work
If anything, digging deeper into Internal Work only opens more questions, both physical and mental.

The only reason the physical side of internal work is even being discussed is because so few have a basic idea of what's going on.
When it comes to this stuff I'll be the first to admit I've only got my foot in the door. But unless the base is raised, no meaningful conversation can be made about "Aiki", physical or otherwise.

We could go on and on about the mental aspects of Aun, induced by the physical training.
The concept of Imashime. How not giving 100% raises performance and strangely seems to give better results.
How that also feeds back into the idea of "Ukeire" (recieving), "Jin ni modosu", which all ties into everyone's favorite keywords of musubi, "ai", love etc etc etc.
Or examining the concepts of A-Un, Go-Ju from a mental perspective.

But the reality is, until you have the physical skills, you can't really discuss it.

I remember spending an extensive amount of time myself with a particular member of Sam Chin's Iliquchan group. The person in question definitely has "the skills" in spades, and back then he used to fill my ear on all the mental aspects, the theoretical perspectives to which I nodded and thought I understood.

Looking back now, I had an "idea" of what he meant, but I really didn't get it. Now that I have my foot in the door of this stuff, it's easy to see I really didn't have an idea of what was meant. And that perspective is only going to change even more if I dig deeper into these skills.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
It has no obvious referents to the strategic response of relaxation in the face of real conflict age[/b].
Dude. You don't have to. You can't pull off these skills if you're tense mentally or physically. That's just a given.
"Handling" your opponent with 30-40% of what you have is the realm of "Bujutsu."
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