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Old 12-12-2006, 11:37 AM   #1
billybob
 
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Seiza can be dangerous

My chinese horoscope for this week begins "Overconfidence creates a risk of accidents on Monday." -- not the thing you want to hear when it's kyu testing tonight and you'll have to uke.

I survived kote gaeshi from the ex special forces guy quite nicely. Had a nice time actually.

Sat a long time in seiza while my seniors had to bail and sit cross legged. Neener neener neener!. Sensei had us stand up and shake it off so we could continue testing safely.

My left foot had gone to sleep, and I fell off it spraining my ankle in the process. DUMBASS.

Anybody else hurt in Seiza, or am I Kaptain of the Klutzes?

dave
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:44 AM   #2
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Not me, but I have heard of people jumping up to run up and take ukemi...only to find out they broke their toes!

Best,
Ron (urban myth or really horrible day...who knows???)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-12-2006, 11:58 AM   #3
jimbaker
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

I once injured myself during the bow-in, which I think is a world record for fastest class related injury.

Jim

Jim Baker
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:31 PM   #4
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

The first time I wore hakama, I stepped on the too-long front hem and took a header with a near- face plant. Thinking...um...quickly, I bounced myself up into seiza as though I had intended all along to make such a dramatic dive into position. Yeah -- THAT'S the ticket!
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:43 PM   #5
Mark Freeman
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
The first time I wore hakama, I stepped on the too-long front hem and took a header with a near- face plant.
Not the first, and surely not the last, to perform this almost mandatory manouver

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:15 PM   #6
Hogan
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Not me, but I have heard of people jumping up to run up and take ukemi...only to find out they broke their toes!

Best,
Ron (urban myth or really horrible day...who knows???)
It was breaking the foot for me. Foot was asleep, wasn't allowed to 'wake it', starting to attack & tried to turn my direction, & snap!, foot went one way, body the other way.
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:40 PM   #7
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

One vote recorded for "really horrible day!"

B,
R (hope you've recovered well...)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-12-2006, 01:57 PM   #8
DonMagee
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

I broke my ankle a while back and never did anything about it. Now I'm going though rehab trying to get my ankle to be flexible again. I absolutely can not sit in seiza. I just can't do it. I've offended a few instructors I've visited in judo because of it.

Of course the docs tell me in a few months it should all be back to normal.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:16 PM   #9
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Heh, Don, just be a Real Man (TM), and take a 4X4 and re-break it! That'll teach that stupid foot!

Best wishes on the recovery...

Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:34 PM   #10
billybob
 
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Pardon me, the worst of all conversationalists - the talkative redneck, but

Thanks for these posts. Talk about overconfidence! I had no idea seiza could hurt me. I really appreciate learning about the broken foot.

To further expound on my narrow mind - I didn't wear sunglasses when I moved to Florida for several years. I painted roofs with reflective material for part of that time, and now I have permanently reddened and yellowed corneas - I look like a jaundice victim up close.

I guess the next question is - how does the savvy practitioner 'look good' in seiza, and keep blood flowing?

dave
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Old 12-12-2006, 02:54 PM   #11
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
David Knowlton wrote:
-snip-To further expound on my narrow mind - I didn't wear sunglasses when I moved to Florida for several years. I painted roofs with reflective material for part of that time, and now I have permanently reddened and yellowed corneas - I look like a jaundice victim up close.

I guess the next question is - how does the savvy practitioner 'look good' in seiza, and keep blood flowing?

dave
Dave, not very funny on the "humor" forum, but you'll want to have regular eye check-ups with the opthomologist watch for any development of cataracts, as you're likely at risk. The good news is that even if you do get them, the treatment is painless and effective.

My trick for sitting seiza is to do subtle shifts in weight from one side to the other every few minutes. (Not sure how good I look, but it definitely keeps me from going completely numb.)
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:16 PM   #12
Hogan
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
David Knowlton wrote:
...I guess the next question is - how does the savvy practitioner 'look good' in seiza, and keep blood flowing?
Actually, one technique is quite simple - & something I failed to do: 'zen breathing'. When you sit, either seiza & in lotus, you find that you can "wake-up" your legs, feet, etc... from a sleep just by correct breathing. I also find it useful when I am bored silly & feel like falling asleep, to get me in the 'here & now' so to speak, by giving my legs a cramp & then breathing out of it (talk about a clear mind during ths time). Believe it or not, it works - even when sitting for an hr on a hard-wood floor; while everyone else can hardly get up, you can just pop right up (& impress your instructor!).
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Old 12-12-2006, 03:27 PM   #13
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

David and Don,
Come to think of it, I maybe be able to top your "sprain and break from seiza" stories --
Years ago, I broke my leg in seiza -- the left fibula -- while goofing around after class with another student. We were practicing some stuff in seiza, and in the process I got tossed over backward. My leg was levered at a diagonal beneath me and snapped. I heard and felt the "pop" and thought, "So that's what it sounds like when you break something."

I got a piggy-back lift to my truck, drove home (manual transmission) and had to wait until after Thanksgiving weekend to get the bone set.

Ah, memories.
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:27 PM   #14
Ron401
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

When I sit in seiza at the beginning of class My feet namely the joints in my toes really hurt. But when i do seiza at the end of class I notice the pain is not as bad.
It must take me that long to loosen up.
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Old 12-12-2006, 05:19 PM   #15
aikidodragon
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

my knees screem in protest. and i think thats a bad omen as i'm only 19. bow ins are going to be painful ocasions in a few years.

:kiAikido is just origami with people.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:39 AM   #16
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
One vote recorded for "really horrible day!"

B,
R (hope you've recovered well...)
It happened at our dojo last year as well. One guy jumping up to take ukemi, promptly fell on his face. He'd either broken or badly twisted his ankle, I don't know. Took a long time to heal in any case.

Usually at our testing sessions, it's ok to stick up a hand, one of the teachers on the testing panel will give a nod and then you're allowed to sit cross legged.

kvaak
Pauliina
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:25 AM   #17
billybob
 
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

I'm told a very high ranking practitioner got up from seiza and fell flat on his face. He was such high rank that no one laughed and he proceeded to get up to his feet as though nothing happened!

How does this zen breathing work? Better question - how can I practice this - breathing out of numbness - technique?

david
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:02 AM   #18
Keith R Lee
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

I'll sit in seiza for a little bit, but then I switch to cross-legged as soon an I begin to feel uncomfortable. There isn't anything holy about getting cramps in your legs.

Keith Lee
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:16 AM   #19
jason jordan
 
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
The first time I wore hakama, I stepped on the too-long front hem and took a header with a near- face plant. Thinking...um...quickly, I bounced myself up into seiza as though I had intended all along to make such a dramatic dive into position. Yeah -- THAT'S the ticket!
Don't worry about that mate....that technique is a common one called "Hakama Nage" very very effective!!!
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:29 PM   #20
DonMagee
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

I just want to clarify I did not break my ankle while sitting in seiza. I broke it trying to throw a 220 pound man in judo. I went for a kouchi gari (Its hard to remember now, but I think that was my intent). He fell, but not like I expected, he fell into me instead of away from me (I think he was tripping before my throw attempt.). This caused me to lose my balance and I fell in another direction, the entanglement of legs lead to a large pop, lots of curse words, and a black foot.

My doctor said it was a bad sprain. So I waited. After not regaining normal flexibility after a few months, I went to a sports doctor. He told me i did ligament damage and most likely broke bones. Now I get to go to therapy to get my foot to bend again in a way that lets me sit in sezia.

That said, I'll probably milk the injury as long as I can. I hate how my knees feel when I sit in sezia.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:10 PM   #21
Princess Rose
 
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
Sara Parson wrote:
my knees screem in protest. and i think thats a bad omen as i'm only 19. bow ins are going to be painful ocasions in a few years.
I'm also 19 and feel the same way!!!! I already have knee problems.

But my stupidity was a few years ago when a friend was preparing for his shodan. We were all goofing around and another student whispered in my ear that everybody was going to run at him as fast as we could. We all got up and of course I was the only one to run at him. He rolled at my knees and I didn't react quickly and wam. Swollen knee for about a week. Luckily it wasn't that bad. Just kept me out of class for that week which was miserable.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:01 PM   #22
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
Jason Jordan wrote:
Don't worry about that mate....that technique is a common one called "Hakama Nage" very very effective!!!
It may be the only technique where one is both uke and tori.
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:17 AM   #23
Lee Mulgrew
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
David Knowlton wrote:
My chinese horoscope for this week begins "Overconfidence creates a risk of accidents on Monday." --
this simply means, drink too much beer on suday and training won't go well on monday! Voice of experience speaking here!
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Old 12-26-2006, 03:10 PM   #24
mut
 
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
Lee Mulgrew wrote:
this simply means, drink too much beer on suday and training won't go well on monday! Voice of experience speaking here!
yea but you allways drink to much beer and wear funny boxers,and you always fall over on the mat........happy satanic time mate.
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Old 12-29-2006, 02:05 AM   #25
Lee Mulgrew
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Re: Seiza can be dangerous

Quote:
Lee Southward wrote:
yea but you allways drink to much beer and wear funny boxers,and you always fall over on the mat........happy satanic time mate.
there is no such thing as too much beer! and I don't just fall over on the mat either, anywhere will do! Can't deny the funky underwear though
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