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Old 09-06-2001, 03:31 PM   #1
drbeat17
Dojo: Karl Geis Aikido, Judo, Jodo
Location: Katy TX
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Who knows Karl Geis?



My name is Daniel and I live in Katy Texas. I've been researching Aikido for about a week now and I decided a couple of days ago I wanted to become an Aikido student. I looked on the net under Houston Aikido and the first school that poped up was Karl Geis's. I looked at his web site and found him to be a 10th dan in Aikido, 8th in Jodo, and 8th in Judo. I just was wondering if anyone knew anything on a personal level about Mr. Geis. I haven't met him yet but the people I have met at the school say he is one of the greatest Aikido masters around.

please give me your comments...
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Old 09-06-2001, 05:27 PM   #2
Kami
Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
Location: Brazil
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Cool Re: Who knows Karl Geis?

Quote:
Originally posted by drbeat17
I just was wondering if anyone knew anything on a personal level about Mr. Geis. please give me your comments...
KAMI : Karl Geis Sensei is a Judo, Aikido and Jodo master. He began his Aikido and Judo training at the Kodokan and Waseda University, in Japan and was the first westerner to receive his 6th Dan from Tomiki Kenji Sensei, a direct student of Ueshiba Morihei O. He trained under Tsuneko Miyake and Kenji Tomiki. In 1982, he founded the FUGAKUKAI with Takeshi Inoue Sensei and Tsuneko Miyake Sensei. This style adopted the training methods of Kenji Tomiki and a Randori system developed by Geis Sensei, abandoning the practice of competition of Tomiki Aikido. After 25 years, Geis Sensei was promoted by his organization, from 6th to 10th Dan. Some people criticize him for that. I have previously posted in this board his answer to that.
I guess you found a very good master.But time will tell.
Best regards and a good decision

Last edited by Kami : 09-06-2001 at 05:30 PM.

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

Ubaldo Alcantara
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Old 09-07-2001, 11:43 AM   #3
Steve Speicher
Dojo: Aikido of Central Ohio
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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On Karl Geis

Well, I sought out Karl Geis's response to Ubaldo on a former thread, as I was interested in seeing what his philosophy was. I must say his position seems very sound, and he seems to have based his system (the Fugakukai) off of his keen observations into the current state of things in the martial arts political world.

The main argument I have with it, is since Karl Geis is the founder of the Fugakukai, and the Fugakukai Promotion Board is the organization that promoted him to 10th dan, it is essentially his students that are promoting him. This seems to me very backwards to the usual system of being promoted, or given rank, by one's teacher or superiors. [Personally, it would seem ludicrous for me to promote my sensei.] I also think it has potential for abuse, although I'm not saying or implying any such action on the part of the Fugakukai.

Take this instance for example. Say head sensei is a 6th dan. Given that head sensei has no ego for pursuit of rank, it worries him not if he stays 6th dan or not for the rest of his life. However, his ambitious and headstrong student is somewhat manipulative. How impressive is it when he tells his friends that his great master is a 6th dan. Wouldn't it be much more aweing if his master was a 10th dan? I mean, then he'd be learning from the very best of the best. The 10th dan proves it! Especially to someone ignorant of the martial arts world.

Anyway, whether or not self-ranking, or students ranking their instructor is right or wrong really depends on one's own beliefs.

The above is just opinion on the philosophy of it, from all I've heard Karl Geis sounds like a great teacher and adept technician. Anyway, a 4th dan in judo, and a 6th dan in aikido are no small feats in and of themselves, regardless of further ranking.

-----------------------------
Steve Speicher
May I ask what is meant by the strong, moving power (hao jan chih chi)? "It
is difficult to describe," Mencius replied. -- Mencius IIA2

403-256 BCE
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Old 09-07-2001, 10:07 PM   #4
H. Trinh
Dojo: Karl Geis Aikido
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Daniel,

I currently attend his school and I must say that I am highly impressed. This month will make it 3 months in the system. In my opinion, one person does not make the school. The other students and instructors there are excellent in addition to Mr. Geis' instruction. Everyone puts their 2 cents in to help you out. On a personal level Mr. Geis is flat out nice. Listen to him speak and you will learn alot about himself, life, and aikido.

Last edited by H. Trinh : 09-07-2001 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 09-08-2001, 08:30 PM   #5
drbeat17
Dojo: Karl Geis Aikido, Judo, Jodo
Location: Katy TX
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Thank all of you

Thank you for your comments...I have decided to join Mr. Karl Geis's school and learn Aikido. Please keep the comments coming though, I'd love to keep learning about how my teacher influenced other people's lives and how people view our school. I hope this thread stays alive and fresh with questions and comments about Karl Gais and Fugakukai system of Aikido.

Thank you,

Daniel Beatty
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Old 09-09-2001, 09:24 AM   #6
kironin
 
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Cool

Quote:
Originally posted by H. Trinh
Daniel,
I currently attend his school and I must say that I am highly impressed. This month will make it 3 months in the system. In my opinion, one person does not make the school. The other students and instructors there are excellent in addition to Mr. Geis' instruction. Everyone puts their 2 cents in to help you out. On a personal level Mr. Geis is flat out nice. Listen to him speak and you will learn alot about himself, life, and aikido.

Glad to hear it !

Guess I will have to visit some time.

I met one of his black belts at a party in Houston and was a bit put off by the attitude he gave that at the school Judo was considered superior to Aikido and that Aikido ranks were just given for time served while Judo ranks had to be earned.
There has also been an impression that people who go looking for Aikido there get steered into Judo.

hoping these impressions are wrong,
Craig
Houston Ki Aikido
Sugar Land, TX
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Old 09-09-2001, 10:56 PM   #7
C. de Boisblanc
Dojo: Aikibudokan Dojo
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Shihan Geis

Dr. Hocker do remember the name of the BB you met at a party in Houston?

Daniel,

Geis Sensei is an excellent teacher and technician. I left his dojo for personal reasons in 1998. Geis Sensei has produced many excellent MA over his 40 years.

I currently train under Wilkinson Sensei who spent over 20 years
with Sensei Geis. Wilkinson Sensei is in the training tapes of the Koryu katas and is an excellent teacher and martial artist.

Geis Sensei has an excellent dojo and I highly recommend it.
Geis Sensei never tried to steer me into judo. If you wished to at some point in your training he would allow you to train in all 3 arts that he teaches.

It is true that some judoka I have met beleive that aikido is inferior to judo. I have found this to be the case at many schools that offer aikido and judo. I am not sure why but possible it is because the competitive nature judo has. As far as I know experience judoka had never told an experinced aikidoka at Geis Sensei's dojo that their judo was superior to aikido and vice versu. There was always mutual repect.

I will say that if an aikidoka and judoka engage that the aikidoka at maii has the advantage and that once the maii is compromised the judoka has the advantage. Some aikido schools offer training with grapping. As does Geis Sensei's dojo.

With regards to promotion being given by time served in aikido at Geis Sensei's dojo there is a template for class hours and technical requirements for promotion. I can only speak for myself that Geis Sensei required me to demostrate for shodan and nidan.

Geis Sensei is well known through the MA community and is well respected.

Best regards,
Chris de Boisblanc
Aikibudokan Dojo
Houston, TX
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Old 09-10-2001, 08:50 AM   #8
Steve Speicher
Dojo: Aikido of Central Ohio
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I have a small quibble with some information presented on the Fugakukai's website.

The pages of interest are:
http://www.karlgeis.com/ai_tech.htm
http://www.karlgeis.com/ai_promo.htm

On the first page, it says that a Yondan is a PhD. level rank. Is the Fugakukai accreditted by the state of Texas to give out PhD's? A PhD is an academic degree to be awarded by an academic institution. I do note however, that they didn't say a PhD, they said a PhD 'level'. Still, I think this should be changed. Also, the term Professor is used quite a lot. Since the terms 'sensei' and 'shihan' are used appropriately, I don't see the need for the extraneous titles.

Please don't view this as an attack. Just some concerns, and a request for more information.

-----------------------------
Steve Speicher
May I ask what is meant by the strong, moving power (hao jan chih chi)? "It
is difficult to describe," Mencius replied. -- Mencius IIA2

403-256 BCE
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Old 09-10-2001, 08:59 AM   #9
H. Trinh
Dojo: Karl Geis Aikido
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Steve,

I really doubt that it is actually a real doctorate you are obtaining. I believe in his system, once you hit black belt, your main goal is to teach others and also learn at the same time. So the "PhD" is just to say that you should be able to teach at a higher level and be held to higher standards just like real professors at colleges and universities with PhDs.
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Old 09-10-2001, 11:29 AM   #10
lt-rentaroo
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Hello,

Personally, I find the minimum times to receive rank a little short. If I were training at this dojo, I would be a Yondan after approximately 6 years. I can only assume this has to do with the way the organization is structured. Of course, comparing ranks from organization to organization is nearly impossible.

As for saying that Yondan is "PhD level", that is absurd. It should be changed. Very misleading and I believe it to be a slap in the face of those who attend a real university and earn a real PhD.

I'm not attacking, as I understand Mr. Geis is very well respected in the MA community and is a well accomplished martial artist. At the same time though, some of the information on the website is misleading.

LOUIS A. SHARPE, JR.
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Old 09-10-2001, 11:43 AM   #11
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by H. Trinh
I believe in his system, once you hit black belt, your main goal is to teach others and also learn at the same time.
Wow - I don't think Mr. Geis has that intention especially considering the published time requirements. Most probable he sees Shodan for exactly what it is - beginning level. Your main goal at that level should be learning Aikido.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-10-2001, 05:55 PM   #12
H. Trinh
Dojo: Karl Geis Aikido
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Don't get me wrong, the shodans and higher (other than white belts) don't teach the class, they help out lower ranks with their skills up to their skill level. Every class something new is learned so it's not all spent instructing. There is usually one black belt per lower rank otherwise it's experienced assisting inexperienced as one instructor would put it. The lessons almost seem "private" one-on-one.
Regardless of rank, level, who teaches who, promotion requirements, etc.., we all leave there with something new and exciting. Having fun and learning how to preserve your life is what it boils down to.
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Old 09-10-2001, 06:49 PM   #13
lt-rentaroo
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Quote:
Originally posted by H. Trinh
we all leave there with something new and exciting. Having fun and learning how to preserve your life is what it boils down to.

I agree completely. Happy Training!

LOUIS A. SHARPE, JR.
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Old 09-20-2001, 05:24 AM   #14
Kami
Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
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TO STEVE SPEICHER AND IT-RENTAROO

Dear Friends,

In answer to your questions, Karl Geis Sensei has asked me to forward his following commentary :

"First, I don't think any state authorizes or acredits a phd. A PHD is a
doctorate awarded by some university and can be achieved in 6 years and simply
indicates a level of academic achievement given one can do the required work.
Yondan, as I have had it explained to me by my teachers, indicates the
practitioner has acquired
the necessary knowledge in the field needed to do creative and teaching work in
the art.
This description is simply an attempt to give a knowledge comparison. For
example in Japan
Sandan is known as the master rank and references to sandan master of Judo
were common in my day.
I have not had experiences with american universities and I suspect that a
person with a bachelors
degree in anything and a yondan from a first class system would need to be
classified as more
than a bachelor of what ever so I guess that in that case yondan would be a
graduate degree, whether it be called masters or phd is fairly unimportant
In japan a college graduate with a bachelors degree equivalent and who is a
renshu yondan (teaching yondan)
can teach all levels in that art.
Lastly I believe that any teaching institution such as ours can define our
levels of achievement
any way we want to as can any university or teaching institution.
6th dan is full professor therefore 5th dan must be assistant professor,
therefore before that in education comes the phd 4th dan. Of course we can
only approximate in any case. However, it is necessary in any orginizational
structure and especially an educational structure to make titles and
explanations that are relative to the society that we live in. To quibble
about these ambiguous and small points is for all
practical purposes not even a worthwhile mental exercise, because they are
only relevant to our own organization
and therefore the opinion of others, who do not share our paradigmatic view,
is based on information
that others have derived from some other paradigm and therefore of little or no
value when trying to make a scientific delineation. Anybody can give an
opinion, that is a simple matter. Backing up that opinion with logical and
physical presentations is difficult and people trying to do it usually become
twisted in their own logic and must return to opinion to bail themselves
out. Further I have rarely had one of these opinion people visit my dojo and
when they have they never get on the mat. Real people usually can back up the
process they are using with logical explanation and action. These are men of
respect. The opinion people unknowingly still have fundamental lessons to be
learned.
Karl E. Geis"
Best regards

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

Ubaldo Alcantara
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Old 09-20-2001, 09:08 AM   #15
Steve Speicher
Dojo: Aikido of Central Ohio
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Thank Mr. Karl Geis for his direct response! That was great to hear from him. Mr. Geis is correct when he says that we may just have to agree to disagree on certain points. I also realize now that from his information he based a lot of organizational things off of the Japanese university way of doing things which I hadn't realized as clearly before.

Quote:

"First, I don't think any state authorizes or acredits a phd. A PHD is a
doctorate awarded by some university and can be achieved in 6 years and simply
indicates a level of academic achievement given one can do the required work.
I believe that the state accredits the actual university that gives out such degrees, not the individual degrees that are given out. In the U.S. to achieve a PhD. commonly takes quite a while yes. At least 4 years to receive a bachelor's (undergrad) degree. A Master's is usually 2 years of graduate school. From there it is even more time to achieve a PhD., although that all depends on the decisions made between the university and the student. I've heard times from about another 4 to 10 years to get a PhD.

I have no knowledge of how these things are done in Japan, so I must defer to your explanations of the Japanese system. Thank you for the information!

Quote:

However, it is necessary in any orginizational
structure and especially an educational structure to make titles and
explanations that are relative to the society that we live in.
Here is our point of disagreement I believe. I don't think this statement is true. It may be the common way, but I don't believe titles are necessary. I believe a dojo (this is my personal opinion, not necessarily that of my dojo) can operate on a purely yudansha/mudansha level, with 'sensei's presiding. It's cool if we disagree here, I am not trying to force my view on you, or say it is the ultimate truth.

Quote:

To quibble
about these ambiguous and small points is for all
practical purposes not even a worthwhile mental exercise, because they are
only relevant to our own organization
and therefore the opinion of others, who do not share our paradigmatic view,
is based on information
that others have derived from some other paradigm and therefore of little or no
value when trying to make a scientific delineation.
This is a very long sentence! You said that anyone outside of your organization is not able to criticize it basically. Okay, what is being criticized is information presented on a web-site, I don't believe there've been attacks (verbal) at the Fugokukai directly. I apologize if it was perceived this way. I am concerned about how information is presented to the general (uninformed) public.

Quote:
Anybody can give an
opinion, that is a simple matter. Backing up that opinion with logical and
physical presentations is difficult and people trying to do it usually become
twisted in their own logic and must return to opinion to bail themselves
out.
This is why we might just have to agree to disagree. I cannot become twisted in my logic personally, because I use 'logic' as taught to me by the educational system, not my own version. I've already stated my opinions, and I must add they have as much value as ANYONE else's opinions. Because that is what opinions are.

Quote:

Further I have rarely had one of these opinion people visit my dojo and
when they have they never get on the mat.
Well, these electronic messages are delivered practically instantaneously. A cross-country trip (or for some, international) is totally out of the question. I don't have the resources to undertake such a venture, even if I had the desire. However, if I was in the Houston area, with your permission of course, I would be interested in attending some classes, as a normal student.

Quote:

Real people usually can back up the
process they are using with logical explanation and action. These are men of
respect. The opinion people unknowingly still have fundamental lessons to be
learned.
I've been found out! I am truly a cabbage disguised as a person. Seriously though, I meant no disrespect. I apologize once again, if I have offended you sir, or your organization.

And finally I believe we all have lessons to be learned, myself included of course.

-----------------------------
Steve Speicher
May I ask what is meant by the strong, moving power (hao jan chih chi)? "It
is difficult to describe," Mencius replied. -- Mencius IIA2

403-256 BCE
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Old 09-20-2001, 09:22 AM   #16
JCK
Dojo: Aikido School of Central Ohio
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Hey Steve,

Interesting response.

Jeremy
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Old 09-20-2001, 10:16 AM   #17
Kami
Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
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Wink GENTLEMEN DO NOT FIGHT...

Congratulations to everybody for a cool, educated, interchange of opinions.
Best

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

Ubaldo Alcantara
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Old 09-22-2001, 11:42 AM   #18
Mike Collins
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I read Mr. Geis's response to an attacking thread on another bbs, and basically he just responded with: "I am what I am, and I make no claims at being anything else. I didn't give myself a 10th dan, it was given to me by the system I've built and the people who now run it. I don't really much care whether I'm a 10th dan or a 6th dan (as long as the 6th dan was given by Tomiki sensei), it just made more sense organizationally"

He is a very straightforward kind of guy, who doesn't apologize for much, cause it seems to me at least, he has very little to apologize for.

I sent him an email telling him I liked his straightforward, noncombative response to this other thread, which was peopled by some who had some real problems with him.

The guy responded to my email with a nice little cordial response. I suggest that if you want to know about him, you ask him. He seems to be a very straightforward guy.
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Old 09-23-2001, 03:16 AM   #19
Kami
Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
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WRITING TO KARL GEIS SENSEI

Quote:
Originally posted by Mikey
I suggest that if you want to know about him, you ask him. He seems to be a very straightforward guy.
KAMI : Hello, Mikey!

I agree with you. Every question I had, I asked him and I always got an educated, straightforward and nice answer. And his book "TWELVE WINDS" is very good and full of his ideas. I really believe everyone interested should read it.
Best

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

Ubaldo Alcantara
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Old 09-23-2001, 04:50 PM   #20
kironin
 
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Re: Shihan Geis

Quote:
Originally posted by C. de Boisblanc
Dr. Hocker do remember the name of the BB you met at a party in Houston?
It was over a year ago and I can't recall.
But he was young (college age?) so that may account for the attitude. He was at least a judo shodan under K. Geis and I was quite surprised at his assessment.

Quote:

>I currently train under Wilkinson Sensei who spent over 20 years
with Sensei Geis. Wilkinson Sensei is in the training tapes of the Koryu katas and is an excellent teacher and martial artist.
Please say hi to Wilkinson Sensei for me, we met each other at a few iaido seminars, but your guys schedule matches our schedule so I haven't been able to take him up on his invitation to visit.


Quote:

I will say that if an aikidoka and judoka engage that the aikidoka at maii has the advantage and that once the maii is compromised the judoka has the advantage. Some aikido schools offer training with grapping. As does Geis Sensei's dojo.
Well, I think this really depends on the goal of the encounter. The judoka has the advantage if the aikidoka tries to play his game on the ground. If the aikidoka is smart enough to stick to principles then it can be quite another matter.

Of course the aikidoka will unlikely to be able score competition points but that shouldn't be his goal anyway.


Quote:

Best regards,
Chris de Boisblanc
Aikibudokan Dojo
Houston, TX

best regards,
Craig
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Old 10-19-2004, 11:46 AM   #21
KPatton
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Re: Who knows Karl Geis?

I study under Shihan Karl Geis. I have reached the level of Shodan. I know the preceeding posts are dated but thought I'd put in my two cents. The Houston dojo is one of many in the Fugakukai Association. We are taught Karl Geis Ryu an offshoot of Tomiki Aikido. The central concepts are Kihara, or constant movement, and Kusushi or the off-balancing of our opponent. Everything in the basic system is geared to practical application. Meaning if it wouldn't help in a fight it is not stressed. The original 17 techniques of the Randori no Kata have been expanded to 23 to incorporate variations of several of the original techniques. The higher kata techniques
are the same, only we perform them incorporating kuzushi and kihara. The concept of kihara prevents any of the techniques from being performed from a positon of strength, rather we keep uke unbalanced by movement making it un-necessary to use strength in any given technique. As a result of this approach, it is easy to release off of anyone using strength. As can be ascertained, absense of force also means an absense of pain. Pain only makes one struggle harder to releive it. We stress body rise and fall as a means to perfect our timing of execution. The avoidance of the use of strength and concentration on the use of uke's balance against him along with movement to blend with uke
allows a practicioner of any size or strength to prevail in any situation.

Classes are high with low, meaning the highest rank present in a given class works with the lowest rank.

There is no effort to steer aikido students in to judo. At the Houston dojo the same flat fee includes study in both if a student desires.
Shihan Geis is well loved by his students past and present and is a father figure to us all.

I find there is a lot of chauvinism regarding the various styles rightly or wrongly. I do know that Shihan Geis has developed a system unlike any other and one only has to study under Shihan Geis to recognize the genius of his system.
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Old 10-19-2004, 02:10 PM   #22
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Who knows Karl Geis?

Quote:
Keith Patton wrote:
I do know that Shihan Geis has developed a system unlike any other and one only has to study under Shihan Geis to recognize the genius of his system.
Hey Keith,

Please forgive the ignorance, but what exactly is the genius of his system ? The concepts you outline above - constant movement and kuzushi predominate most if not all of Aikido.

Just a question I had after reading the thread.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 10-20-2004, 08:39 AM   #23
JasonB
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Re: Who knows Karl Geis?

Quote:
Keith Patton wrote:
...Shihan Geis is well loved by his students past and present and is a father figure to us all...Shihan Geis has developed a system unlike any other and one only has to study under Shihan Geis to recognize the genius of his system.

Jeez...just don't drink the Kool-Aid.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:38 AM   #24
KPatton
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Re: Who knows Karl Geis?

I received word that Karl Geis died recently. I believe on 4/11/2014. I am trying to verify this, but have not seen an obituary or notice from the Fugakukai Association.
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Old 04-12-2014, 10:28 PM   #25
crbateman
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Re: Who knows Karl Geis?

Quote:
Keith Patton wrote: View Post
I received word that Karl Geis died recently. I believe on 4/11/2014. I am trying to verify this, but have not seen an obituary or notice from the Fugakukai Association.
The USJA website is reporting that Geis Sensei passed away on 4/8/14 from cancer complications.
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