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Old 12-10-2006, 05:53 PM   #1
BDuncan
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What's the most dangerous fighting style

What do you consider is the most dangerous (whatever your definition of that is) fighting style (either within or outside of aikido) compared to others and please say why.
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Old 12-10-2006, 06:38 PM   #2
Cady Goldfield
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

The one that gets its practioner killed! Oh, wait, do you mean dangerous to the OTHER guy?

Sorry.

It makes no sense to compare arts, because their uses are designed for different situations and environments. Their effectiveness will also vary with practioners' individual temperaments and talents. Unschooled streetfighting and warrior clan koryu both can be "deadly," but how can you "rate" their deadliness against each other?

Would you ask what kind of gun kills better than another? Whether a Luger is deadlier than a Glock? Both fire bullets, and if you get hit with one in the right spot, you're dead. All makes of gun fire projectiles at a velocity that is lethal. Their individual details may include variations in repeat-action, laser aim, or other bells and whistles, and some kill "messier" while others kill "neat" because of the kinds of bullets they take, but essentially all guns are deadly. You as the individual just choose the one that best suits your needs and interests. If you want to kill a lot of people within split seconds of each other, then you choose an automatic repeating weapon. If you just need to kill one or a few people on any given occasion, then a .38 revolver is fine. For point-blank to dispatch a bad date without him/her catching on until it's too late, a deringer is nice.

Deadliness aside, modern martial arts are exercises in theory, since we don't practice them to kill people (at least, I hope not). Ostesibly, we can use them to defend ourselves against attacks. But don't mistake the stuff folks do in the dojo with straight killing methods used strictly for dispatching -- for mercenary, espionage, or other professional reasons -- human beings to expedite a political or business objective. That's where the "deadly" resides. Even so, physical skills are rarely used for that line of work. Radioactive polonium slipped into a drink at a hotel bar was a much more intriguing killing method to remove an unwanted Russian spy (allegedly at the behest of Vladimir Putin) than would have been snapping his spine.

My $.02 anyway.

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 12-10-2006 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 12-10-2006, 07:17 PM   #3
SeiserL
 
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

IMHO, it is not the style that is dangerous, but the person.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 12-10-2006, 07:33 PM   #4
Roman Kremianski
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

I'd take a wild guess and say these things are the most dangerous fighting style:



The US happens to be 8th dan in this particular art!
Don't mess!

Last edited by Roman Kremianski : 12-10-2006 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:21 PM   #5
sullivanw
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Aha! The formless form! The style that is not a style!

This thread reminds me of something I read some time ago. It was to the effect of the most dangerous swordsman to face, aside from a master, was one who had never held a sword before. The rank novice could be incredibly reckless and unpredictable, and while being very dangerous to themselves, could also be a hazard to a trained swordsman.

As far as actual styles go I'm not sure that there is a most dangerous one. Really it is the individual, their level of and commitment to training, innate factors, and their level of disregard for their opponent.

-Will
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:28 PM   #6
Ketsan
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
IMHO, it is not the style that is dangerous, but the person.

IMO a style is basically someones knowlege (tactics, strategy, body mechanics etc) whether learned by fighting or passed on through teaching. For example Aikido is basically everything O-Sensei found useful from his own experience, so when you learn Aikido you're basically taking O-Sensei's and our instructors (and their instructors and so on) knowlege, experience and ways of thinking and then incorporating them into yourself. You can often watch someone on a grading and tell who their instructor is for instance.

So in a way the style and the person are one and the same, although of course we're not O-Sensei or our instructors and so there are individual variations. In that case the style you learn (whether learned in the dojo, from practical experience or both) influences the person you are and thus how dangerous you are.

Last edited by Ketsan : 12-10-2006 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:47 PM   #7
Haole
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Bill Duncan wrote:
What do you consider is the most dangerous (whatever your definition of that is) fighting style (either within or outside of aikido) compared to others and please say why.
What's the saying? There are no stupid questions? Well, this one is close.
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Old 12-10-2006, 10:18 PM   #8
Cady Goldfield
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Will, for some odd reason, the classic "dingy ride to Han's Island" scene from Enter the Dragon flashed through my mind yesterday while I was working on other stuff. Thanks for providing the re-run today... "Wot's YER style?!" "The style of no-style." Heh. One of my favorite lines in the movie.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:16 PM   #9
Kevin Wilbanks
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
. For point-blank to dispatch a bad date without him/her catching on until it's too late, a deringer is nice.
I'm getting the idea that dating is a good deal more interesting in Uzbekistan than it is here. I would like to hear some stories.

As far as the deadliest art goes, I'm going to go with guile.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:44 PM   #10
Aristeia
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Bill Duncan wrote:
What do you consider is the most dangerous (whatever your definition of that is) fighting style (either within or outside of aikido) compared to others and please say why.
Grenoch. No question.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:44 PM   #11
hapkidoike
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Would you ask what kind of gun kills better than another? Whether a Luger is deadlier than a Glock? Both fire bullets, and if you get hit with one in the right spot, you're dead. All makes of gun fire projectiles at a velocity that is lethal. Their individual details may include variations in repeat-action, laser aim, or other bells and whistles, and some kill "messier" while others kill "neat" because of the kinds of bullets they take, but essentially all guns are deadly. You as the individual just choose the one that best suits your needs and interests. If you want to kill a lot of people within split seconds of each other, then you choose an automatic repeating weapon. If you just need to kill one or a few people on any given occasion, then a .38 revolver is fine. For point-blank to dispatch a bad date without him/her catching on until it's too late, a deringer is nice.
Maybe, but ammunition does have different characteristics right? That is to say that a .357 is more "effective" (maybe I am defining effectiveness incorrectly but give me a break) because that specific round usually (and I cannot produce the evidence, I learned this while taking a conceal/carry class) only requieres one round to stop a human body. I think that it was somehere around the 92% of all incidents involving a .357 were "one shot stops". If one is willing to grant my definition of "effective" then there will be little argument what weapon is superior when we ask, should I carry a .22 or a .357 mag? But if you do not grant my definition of "effective" we will run into problems.

This question aobut what art is the "dangerous" has the same pitfall. First who gets to define deadly? Who is our 'authority'/where is our evidence? And, how can we possibly test what we decide on? If you really want to engage this then sort out what it is you are really trying to ask.
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:21 AM   #12
Kevin Wilbanks
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Isaac Bettis wrote:
If one is willing to grant my definition of "effective" then there will be little argument what weapon is superior when we ask, should I carry a .22 or a .357 mag? But if you do not grant my definition of "effective" we will run into problems.
Actually, my understanding is that for point blank range asassination, smaller calibers, including .22 cal pistols designed for target shooting, are considered the most effective by today's discriminating assassin. Less noise. Less mess.

For sheer killing power in a weapon, I say you can't beat the infected blanket. It probably wiped out the majority of the approximately 100 million people who used to live on the continent where I live now before my ancestors arrived. Trading diseased products probably killed 10 to 20 times as many people as the Nazis, maybe twice as many the black plague, with it's previous deadly weapon champ: the flea. So my list of most dangerous fighting weapons: 1) the blanket, 2) the flea, 3)the Nazi.
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:36 AM   #13
RampantWolf
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Mark Griffin wrote:
What's the saying? There are no stupid questions? Well, this one is close.
I think the one you are looking for is "There are no stupid questions... but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."

Not pointing fingers, just tossing off a one-liner.

If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid.
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:19 AM   #14
Mark Freeman
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
So my list of most dangerous fighting weapons: 1) the blanket, 2) the flea, 3)the Nazi.
add to that the mosquito, and you have a formidable arsenal

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:40 AM   #15
Jory Boling
 
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Cady Goldfield wrote:
Will, for some odd reason, the classic "dingy ride to Han's Island" scene from Enter the Dragon flashed through my mind yesterday while I was working on other stuff. Thanks for providing the re-run today... "Wot's YER style?!" "The style of no-style." Heh. One of my favorite lines in the movie.
Is that the same movie as "Who's the Master!?" "Sho Nuff!" ?
Sifu Sho Nuff had some deadly body skills.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:21 AM   #16
John Matsushima
 
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Johnny Yu: Remember how you're always telling us to master "the art of fighting without fighting"?
Leroy Green: Yeah.
Johnny Yu: Well I did you one better. I mastered "the art of fighting... without knowing how to fight".

Now, when I say, "Who's da mastah?" you say, "Sho'nuff!"

-John Matsushima

My blog on Japanese culture
http://onecorneroftheplanetinjapan.blogspot.jp/
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:57 AM   #17
Erick Mead
 
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote:
I'd take a wild guess and say these things are the most dangerous fighting style:



The US happens to be 8th dan in this particular art!
Don't mess!
But No! Your kung-fu is not strong!

On Planet Earth the martial art universally regarded as the most deadly is Tian Quan - Heaven's Fist.

Also known as asteroid ballistics. There have been but few masters of this art. Bouts occur only every 100 million years or so, and, well, let's just say -- tickets are hard to come by.

A match routinely results in the near-sterilization of the planet, --- and so one has ever been able to report the winner. The identity of the current master therefore remains perpetually hidden.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:04 AM   #18
Mark Freeman
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
But No! Your kung-fu is not strong!

On Planet Earth the martial art universally regarded as the most deadly is Tian Quan - Heaven's Fist.

Also known as asteroid ballistics. There have been but few masters of this art. Bouts occur only every 100 million years or so, and, well, let's just say -- tickets are hard to come by.

A match routinely results in the near-sterilization of the planet, --- and so one has ever been able to report the winner. The identity of the current master therefore remains perpetually hidden.
If you could locate a dinosaur, you could ask one of them, they saw this particular 'artist' but only briefly

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:09 AM   #19
Jorge Garcia
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
On Planet Earth the martial art universally regarded as the most deadly is Tian Quan - Heaven's Fist.

Also known as asteroid ballistics.
If we're going that route, we shouldn't forget Grand Celestial Do!

http://cosmicfighting.atspace.com/origins.html

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:42 AM   #20
Erick Mead
 
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Jorge Garcia wrote:
If we're going that route, we shouldn't forget Grand Celestial Do!
http://cosmicfighting.atspace.com/origins.html
NO, no, no,.... You want the comprehensive manual if you want to fight in THAT weight class:

"Top Ten Ways to Destroy Earth"

http://www.livescience.com/technolog...troyearth.html

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:19 AM   #21
Cady Goldfield
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Isaac Bettis wrote:
Maybe, but ammunition does have different characteristics right? That is to say that a .357 is more "effective" (maybe I am defining effectiveness incorrectly but give me a break) because that specific round usually (and I cannot produce the evidence, I learned this while taking a conceal/carry class) only requieres one round to stop a human body. I think that it was somehere around the 92% of all incidents involving a .357 were "one shot stops".
Isaac, you're splitting hairs. All guns are capable of delivering a lethal payload into a human being. That's the point. (Or hollow point...).

But remember, "guns don't kill people..." Like Lynn Seiser said, it's the person, not the vehicle he uses, whether gun or empty hand.
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:20 AM   #22
Cady Goldfield
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
I'm getting the idea that dating is a good deal more interesting in Uzbekistan than it is here. I would like to hear some stories.

As far as the deadliest art goes, I'm going to go with guile.
It's even more interesting here in Massachusetts (I like the colors of the Uzbekistani flag better than our primary red/white/blue...)

Jory,
You're thinking of "The Last Dragon" (which featured one of my favorite character actors, Julius Cary III), a cute send-up of Bruce Lee's "Enter the Dragon."

Sho' nuff!

Last edited by Cady Goldfield : 12-11-2006 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:01 AM   #23
Luc X Saroufim
 
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
IMHO, it is not the style that is dangerous, but the person.
+1

Any art can be the "art of peace" if practiced within that realm, and the polar opposite is true.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:13 AM   #24
statisticool
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

gun fu

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 12-11-2006, 04:23 PM   #25
James Davis
 
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Re: What's the most dangerous fighting style

Quote:
Bill Duncan wrote:
What do you consider is the most dangerous (whatever your definition of that is) fighting style (either within or outside of aikido) compared to others and please say why.
Thermonuclear warfare.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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