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Old 12-08-2006, 10:20 AM   #26
Michael McCaslin
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Hi Michael,

I enjoyed your considered response to the well put questions at the head of the thread. There are a couple of points, maybe you could clarify for me?


Quote:
3. I believe that the vast majority of people who practice these arts do not understand how to use internal strength.
4. I believe that the majority of people who practice these arts do not have access to teachers who can and will show them.


Now I neither agree or disagree with the rightness of these 'beliefs'. I personally have no idea if they are true. They do however seem amazingly all encompassing. It's a big world with martial arts being practiced in virtually every country. What leads you to be so confident that your beliefs are as they are? I'm quite sure you have evidence based on your own experience, but is it correct to extrapolate this out to be so 'wide' an observation?

This forum if nothing else gets many of us thinking

regards,

Mark
Good question, Mark. If you want a one word answer, that would be YouTube! ( )

But seriously, you hit the nail on the head. My opinions are subjective, and based solely on my limited experience with a small sample population. I realize I'm guilty of painting with a pretty broad brush.

So why did I say it? Well, I'm not just trying to be provocative, although it's OK if it makes people pause for a moment to consider where they are with their training and where they would like to be. I really feel like there is something lacking. I'll try to elaborate on my experience a bit, and maybe that will help people see where I am coming from with this.

I've been involved with martial arts for a long time, in different Japanese, Korean, and Chinese arts. I'm sure that's true of lots of people. Since I grew up in a small town, and moved to a small city, what I train has largely been dictated by who is available to teach. I've been a part of both large and small organizations, and all up I guess I'm close to 20 years of formal training time. Here are some of my observations:

1. Teachers are forced to decide between training to the highest standard or to the lowest common denominator. Economics will drive the system toward the LCD. I had a hapkido teacher with five students called back to Korea "for training." His replacement has 80 students and is still there today. I won't comment on the change in quality with the increase in quantity. I think it's just a truism that martial arts isn't for everyone, but teachers also need to make a living. This dynamic causes some interesting evolutions. Unfortunately, we no longer live in a time where there are lots of people training as if their life depended on it.
2. Training in "aiki" arts is almost always predicated on some aggreements between tori and uke which allow tori to experience some success with the techniques. These agreements, while vital in the beginning, are also limiting. Yet even in high level randori, these agreements seem to persist. Most randori I've seen amounts to doing kata from unannounced starting points really fast.

I got my first glimmer of understanding of internal strength from a tai chi teacher here in New Orleans. He was a tiny fellow, but one day in class he put his hands on me and I felt like I was being run over by a truck. At the time, I concluded tai chi was the answer to all my problems, and has what all the other arts lack.

Unfortunately, I failed to learn what he had to teach before he passed away. None of us in his class "got it" in time. Still, he gave me a gift-- while I can't do internal strength, I now know it when I see it.

And that's the problem-- following the death of my tai chi teacher, I started looking for somewhere to train. I know what I'm looking for, but it's just not around. There are many more people teaching tai chi who don't have internal strength than there are who do. Much later, I've realized that many arts are complete with internal strength, and somewhat meaningless in its absence. It's not the art, it's the person. That gets said so much it's meaning no longer comes across. It means something different to me now than it did the first time I heard it. Another one: Before I started training, all that martial arts stuff looked the same to me. Then I started training, and my eyes opened to all the wonderful differences. Now, much later, they all look the same again. To me, these statements both mean the same thing-- without the "engine" that makes these arts work, you are practicing self deception. That's fine, because in today's world there's really no penalty for that, but I want to be true to the ideal, as much work as that takes.

I started training with my current aikijujutsu teacher because he can do techniques against people who are not trained, don't know any ukemi, and are actively resisting. I can't stop him from doing technique to me, and he can stop me from doing technique to him. I believe he has some internal strength, but does not teach it. When I ask him specific questions, I get redirected. My teacher is primarily interested in self defense, and I don't think he believes internal training is necessary to adequately defend yourself. I think he's right, but I want to learn internal strength for reasons that go beyond merely defending myself. At least the folks I train with aren't going to do me the disservice of taking a dive while I wave my arms around. They don't respond to my incoming energy-- I have to take control of them and move them. Our only agreements are that I will do my best not to hurt them and they will do their best not to let me accomplish my objectives. I give them the same as uke. While I think this is a great way to train, you can do it for a long time and not spontaneously develop internal strength. So I'm out here doing my homework and searching. I expect to learn how to use internal strength to make whatever art I'm doing work, and one day I'd like to teach others.

I realize this hasn't really addressed the "It's a big world out there, what makes you think you've seen enough to comment?" aspect of your question. Perhaps the infamous "jo trick" thread is part of my answer. I really hoped some people would come forward and say "Yeah, it's no big deal. Here's how we practice it in my dojo." It never happened. Then I see guys like Akuzawa, blowing people's minds (and filming it) and then saying "It's the basics." I believe him. But I don't see many people doing "the basics." They might be all over the place and I just don't know about it. But for me, that's the same as if they never existed. Oh, and YouTube. No, I'm serious this time. YouTube has allowed me to see people doing what I know should be possible. I'm not chasing a myth-- there are people who can really do these things. I want to learn. It's also allowed me to see lots of people doing some things I don't really want to learn.

I think some people would rather believe there's nothing else out there to relieve themselves from the obligation to find it. That's OK, I'm just making a different choice. I hope this helps clarify where I'm coming from-- thanks for asking.


Michael
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:59 AM   #27
Dennis Hooker
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Well Dan I am most certainly not mad at you. Over the years we have had civil if not friendly commutations on a number of topics. One thing I do disagree about is the way you and others sometimes paint all Aikido with a broad brush. I know it is expedient to not have to qualify your statements and most people should be able to read between the lines but it is not really always so apparent. You know over all the years I have been teaching (and I do take teaching seriously) I have had a good many Daito-ryu students visit the dojo or attend seminars from Illinois, Tennessee, Las Vegas to San Juan P.R. They have always been friendly encounters and almost always they go away with a greater understanding of the differences between Daito-ryu and Aikido. They left with a new or perhaps deeper respect for Aikido. On several occasions they have said "now I understand". Note that I did not say I gave them something new. It was perhaps the same message or lesson they had seen a hundred times but from a different perspective they now understood. I did not, and do not, fault their art or their teachers for a lack of ability or understanding. I do not go onto their forums and ask why they don't get it. It is not because I fear a rebuffing or some kind of physical challenge but because as you say "my time is limited" and I chose to spend it with people on Aikido sites. That is what inspired the question in the first place.

Perhaps I am thin skinned but my friend (and I mean that) many times you come across as doing bot (faulting the art or the teachers) I have trained to yudansha level in Karate -- Judo -- Kenjutsu - Iaijutsu and of course Aikido I have also trained in boxing and have military training. I am by no means naive nor am I gullible. I am but a reflection of many Aikido teaches I know. Some people may believe us unknowing or unskilled and some people in Aikido are unknowing and unskilled but until proven so I would ask not to be painted with a broad brush. I would ask that people who offer knowledge do so without innuendo regarding an entire body of teachers. That is unless one has direct knowledge of an Aikido teachers abilities through hands on experience.

Last edited by Dennis Hooker : 12-08-2006 at 11:06 AM.

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Old 12-08-2006, 11:06 AM   #28
gregstec
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
I am also in a grey area as far as my involvement in aikido goes. My active training days in aikido, a total of five years, ended in 1978.
Ellis,

I don't think you are in that much of a grey area. I have had the opportunity to be on the mat with many diverse groups of Aikidoka over the years starting with Koretoshi Maruyama from the Ki Society back in the late 70s, AAA shihans, Bill Witt and a group of Iwama folks, the who's-who from ASU during the two Aikido cruises, as well as you from last weekend at the Itten dojo. All have different perspectives on Aikido, but all are really doing the same thing, just in different ways.

The best way to find 'your own' Aikido is to experience as much as you can from others' Aikido. I really appreciate all those that are willing to share what they know so we all can benefit from that knowledge in our own way.

Thank You
Greg Steckel
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:25 AM   #29
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

What a nice topic, Dennis, what a nice topic, thank you!

Nagababa

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Old 12-08-2006, 11:39 AM   #30
Dennis Hooker
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

You are quite welcome Szczepan. I might add for a guy like me with dyslexia I find your name a devil at times to spell right.

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Old 12-08-2006, 04:25 PM   #31
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Many ... are finding ...that they have been cheated ... dragged through the twenty year man ideal. We can get them there much faster.... The skills that we have been discussing are the source of Aiki. Very...very...few know even the pieces of them. Fewer still the mastery-if there is one-of them. And these skills are the cornerstone of your art. ... Since Ikeda made a very impassioned statement about what is missing and went outside Aikido to find it....and stated clearly that the art is in crisis and needs to have its training radically altered
I am here because proper argument, like proper atemi, should bring definitive clarity -- and not obscurity, and definitely not mere ego satisfaction. That is my calling -- proper argument. An unacknowledged opening shows an error that needs attention. This is as true in concept as it is in training.

Therefore, I tend to take on, where the openings are evident, statements such as the above. I try to do this from my own experience and learning in aikido, which even though it may be relatively feeble compared with many here and elsewhere, is enough to identify and challenge a good deal of improper argument on the topic that otherwise impedes learning.

I do this not in a spirit of conflict, but to confirm, to clarify and challenge the openings. I learn more about what I know, and advance my own knowledge by carefully defending it from challenge. Sometime, I lose arguments and I learn from that, too, and generally learn more from the failures than from the successes. Success can often be just dumb luck, but failure always has a culprit.

I hope this same effort on my part inspires greater care and caution in distinguishing what is being discussed from what is not, and in seeing that something is actually learned from the expense of all the effort that so many willingly contribute here, be they from whatever background.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:23 PM   #32
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Mr Hooker asked some serious questions, which risk being misunderstood.

I post here and write a column because I have met some of the people who practise aikido and post here and also because it is a forum: a place for the expression of opinions and exchange of ideas. I must confess that it does not really matter to me whether people practise aikido or not. It is what they write that matters.

I have my own ideas of what constitutes a good discussion (and they are similar to Erik Mead's), but this is also a website and a discussion forum and so it is difficult, even if it were desirable, to pretend that it is an academic seminar.

I cannot speak for aikido in the US, but in my experience the dissemination of knowledge in the aikido world has been governed too much on a 'need-to-know' basis: you cannot have the knowledge unless you can prove that you need to know it and that you can also handle it if it were given. In this respect (and always in my experience), aikido follows some Japanese traditions.

I think somewhere the Founder talked about training as a means of blowing away dust and cobwebs from the body/mind/self. Similarly (though I do not think the Founder talked about this), a good stream of fresh air, in the form of questions and opinions, also help to blow away the cobwebs, even if these come from people who do not practise the art. As I stated, it is the ideas that matter, not who it is who stated them. In this respect, websites can be seen as a part of another Japanese tradition: the fruitful combination of BUN and BU: training and intellectual culture.

This said, we all know that discussion, like training, requires a measure of self-discipline.

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 12-08-2006 at 07:28 PM.

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Old 12-08-2006, 08:30 PM   #33
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
I think somewhere the Founder talked about training as a means of blowing away dust and cobwebs from the body/mind/self.
I tend to agree with you, however, recently almost all this dust was redirected to only one topic -- how to develop esoteric 'internal power' that O sensei apparently 'didn't pass to his late students'. This is done by these few non-aikidoka who has nothing else to say, because they can't even do decent ikkyo. They also never practice with direct students of Founder. And those ppl lecturing and patronizing about all aspects aikido practice -- not only for beginners, but also to old timers like you or Dennis......

Thing is, ppl who had experience with shihans like Saotome, Arikawa,Tada sensei will only smile reading about all these mysterious ninja-like tricks, but fresh na´ve beginners haven't right judgment..

Topic is interesting. I always though that if one doesn't practice aikido he will come to aikido forum to learn about aikido, but non one of our own non-aikidoka have such desire. Instead they are teaching us how to do aikido!!!! I can't believe itů..

Nagababa

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Old 12-08-2006, 09:07 PM   #34
DH
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Well I'm not near as nice as Ellis.
Your low opinion of my skills....site unseen... is fine by me.
If I can play and not have to actually -do- AIkido with someone and see them do something to me that is meaningful in any way to move me. If they did, it would be the same or similar skill sets. So who would be arguing? It'd be more shop talk.
And Ikkyo? Please.

The real discussion is- if they have it and are they sharing and teaching it in a manner that takes just a few years to get. And when is that? a year in, two, ten?
If you think for a minute that that the head guys in Aikido or many Asian arts are openly teaching the real body skills, or that it takes twenty years. Your greatly mistaken. ....As your seniors in your arts are telling you...right here... that, this idea of open teaching in Aikido or most all Asian arts? Just aint true.
Thats the real battle Szcepan. Not who is better then whom. Who cares.
The point is what needs to truly be taught, and is being held back and then where it is even know at all.

Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 12-08-2006 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:13 PM   #35
jason jordan
 
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Hey you know what???? and this is very off the subject, but I can not wait for the day when I can meet face to face the ladies and gentlemen who are serious posters here, the Lynn Seisers', Erick Meads', and the Jun's etc. etc. It seems that no matter what forum I visit I see you there....This tells me that I am not the only aikidoka who eats, sleeps and breaths Aikido......"I AM AIKIDO" Lol

0h yeah and I can't forget Ron Tisdale too, and others that are regulars!

Anyway... I think that the people who don't study Aikido and post "Stupid" negative remarks (stupid because you can not judge something or comment on something you have never really experienced

I think they are valuable to us. They make sure that we don't get too relaxed. And further more, aikido keiko is not just on the mat....it's in everyday life! "including these forums"

Onegaishimasu
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:20 PM   #36
Mark Jakabcsin
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Dennis,
Interesting question and one I ask myself from time to time, as I am one of the accused.....errr, ahhh, one of the aforementioned non-practicing akidoka. It has been several years since I trained in Daito-ryu and a few more since I have actively trained in Aikido and yet I do continue to frequent this forum, Aikido Journal and E-budo. I have noticed over the years I read fewer and fewer threads and respond to even less, and yet I still 'check in' and look for that one thread that interests me.

Perhaps that is the reason I am here: I am always looking for that one thread with quality posts about specific topics of interest. Unfortunately my favorite topics are seldom discussed in a meaningful way. This is not a discouragement to me as I find the information I need elsewhere but I do enjoy a good discussion and have found many insightful tips over the years on the various forums. I'll look for that needle in a haystack. Hence I still drop by to read and occassional contribute.

Plus, I know and train (when travel permits) with a few of the contributors here and greatly enjoy reading their posts and seeing what interests them. I suppose I am also on the look out for other good potential training partners for when I am on the road.

Take care and Happy Holidays,

Mark J.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:24 PM   #37
DH
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Square Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Quote:
Jason Jordan wrote:

Anyway... I think that the people who don't study Aikido and post "Stupid" negative remarks (stupid because you can not judge something or comment on something you have never really experienced

Onegaishimasu
Here is your quote edited for you
Anyway... I think that the people who don't study internal skills and post "Stupid" negative remarks (like szcepan did above).... stupid because you can not judge something or comment on something you have never really experienced

*Please note*
Your community.....your Aikido practioners... are adding up to about a dozen or so folks from this Aikiweb site who have gone out this year and met the folks you few are complaining about.
No one
None
Have come back and said anything other then "Great stuff" and "Yes it is directly relevant to Aikido."
So just what are you...who are oultined in bold in your own quote above ...not feeling and yet discounting?

Good questions all around
I still like to think we are all on a search to improve ourselves. I'm not often dissapointed when someone feels these things. It's like- minded budo seekers falling in love with something obviously excellent. It never turns into one-upmanship. Its usually a lot of fun. Gee...just as they reported back here.
Most of us who like budo are a little whacked anyway. It makes friends -not enemies.
Happy holidays back at ya
Dan

Last edited by DH : 12-08-2006 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:42 PM   #38
jason jordan
 
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

[quote=Dan Harden]Here is your quote edited for you
Anyway... I think that the people who don't study internal skills and post "Stupid" negative remarks (like szcepan did above).... stupid because you can not judge something or comment on something you have never really experienced

Well first of all Dan...I would never stoop so low as to call anyones name, especially people who I know nothing about. So I would appreciate it if you would kindly not edit my quotes... "Thank you"

Second of all, the people I am referring too, are people who negatively post comments about what Aikido can and can not do, why it won't work, and so on and so forth. You nor myself or anyone else for that matter can not judge people or their practices based on what we or they have never experienced.

Thirdly, I don't think anyone is complaining, I think the question was posted humbly and with genuine curiosity.

Peace bruh,
And if I offended you, then my most humble apologies.

Jason
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:48 PM   #39
DH
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Fair enough, Jason. Sorry about that. Consider it a comment to the general ...reader.. since its too late to edit.
Have a happy
Dan
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:58 PM   #40
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote:
Oh, and btw - and you know, never having laid eyes on any of us, that they/we cannot do a "decent ikkyo" through what mystic ninja trick?
Ellis, please, 5 years it is something like shodan level. from that level normally you START learning. What do you want to teach me after 20 years of vacations? Your body forgot everything you learned from those great teachers. After, you learned completly different conditionning from other MA and want to believe it is revelant to aikido??? I hope you are kiding yourself...

Dan, again talking about these (in)famous "internal skills' ? Even in this topic? I was right about you guys....it can't be helped....

Nagababa

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Old 12-08-2006, 10:01 PM   #41
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Even though I am in the middle of finals, I think I should comment on why I am here:

I am here because I think there is potentially valuable information in aikido, as a guide to bodyskill training. I used to practice a related art for several years, and many of my classmates were serious aikido practiioners. I was impressed with the possibilty of aikido, much less so with how I have seen it play out in practice. I am here because until last year I had given up believing that the skills manifested by Takeda, Ueshiba, Sagawa, Shioda etc could be learned or taught.

As far as my current practice, well, let's just say that it's not aikido, but that I am certainly curious how the body skills we are discussing work in a live, freestyle format. I'm not getting any younger, and I'm hoping that the skills can help me stay in the mix longer than would otherwise be possible. With weapons or with grappling or striking or whatnot. My freestyle practice is mostly Judo and Serrada escrima, in case anyone is that interested in what an amateur like me is doing. And yes, Serrada does do more than flow sparring, in case anyone thinks otherwise.

This forum seems to have a lot of people who are curious about the body skills at the core of the fighting art shown by Takeda, Ueshiba, Shioda, Sagawa etc. I learn a lot from the discussions here, and I enjoy talking with fellow researchers. One might say, seekers on the path, but that might be a little bit too much religion for some.

In the end it's just fighting, and I'm interested in the most efficient and effective way to do that...but increasingly, I'm seeeing that it's about the most efficient and effective way to move.

Last edited by Tim Fong : 12-08-2006 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:25 PM   #42
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Hi folks,

First off, I would like to thank Dennis for bringing up this question and thread and thank all of you who have expressed their thoughts and feelings on why you're here. That such a question does not get met with only crickets quietly chirping shows that there are people who care about discussion of the kind that occurs here. That's why I established these forums in the first place -- so that people who are interested in aikido could respectfully share their thoughts and experiences on the art.

Frankly, I personally do not care how much experience, if any, people have in the art when they share their thoughts here. I think that, for the most part, people have been honest about letting us know about their experience level in aikido. If that matters to you in how you interpret their comments, please feel welcome in weighing such while reading their thoughts. As such, I'm happy that there are people who have experience with other arts share their thoughts on aikido, provided that they, too, understand that some people may not find their comments relevant to their own practice -- just as people choose the threads in which they want to participate or choose the people to whom to respond (or not respond, as the case may be).

But, please do remember that this website is aimed at being concerned with the art of aikido. I would very much appreciate it if threads/posts outside of the Open Discussions forum be directly pertinent to aikido. Frankly, since I'm pretty dense at times, I personally would appreciate it people would be willing to make such a connection explicit in the threads.

About the only ground rule, though, that I have established and wish to maintain is the first rule of AikiWeb: Treat your fellow AikiWeb Forum members with respect.. And, as I have said before, I don't care who started it -- being disrespectful to someone just because you believe you were slighted doesn't give you a license to disregard that first rule. If you wish to get into a personal argument with someone, please take it off-line from public discussion into personal e-mail or private messages. So, in this thread (as well as others, of course), I would very much appreciate it if people could please stop directing barbs at each other in a personal manner and, instead, direct your attention to the topic and subject at hand.

In any case, I'm glad that there are so many folks who are interested in sharing your thoughts, experiences, and feelings on aikido with each other here on AikiWeb. I hope everyone will help in creating and maintaining this site as a place where such sharing can occur in an open-spirited manner.

Best,

-- Jun

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Old 12-09-2006, 01:52 AM   #43
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Most of us who like budo are a little whacked anyway.
What do you mean "a little"? LOL

Grown mature adults running around in white pajamas and black pleated A-line pantaloons acting like ancient samurai, and loving it?

"A little whacked"? I want more credit than that please.

And as long as I can't take myself that serious, I have tried to separate the message from the messenger, and give the content more serious consideration than way the messenger expresses it. I hope people do the same with my insignificant sharing.

I love cross training, so I have no problems with non-Aikido being here. I hope to actually train someday with all of them. Maybe I can learn something. There appears so much i don't know.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 12-09-2006, 04:12 AM   #44
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
Grown mature adults running around in white pajamas and black pleated A-line pantaloons acting like ancient samurai, and loving it?
LOL when you put it like that Lynn, it behoves any of us to take ourselves too seriously

I'm sure that it is our passion for our practice that leads us to behave the way we do, and that our conduct on these fora is a reflection of how much we have invested.

Some like your good self, can carry yourself with restraint and deportment, others of us can get a little carried away by our own efforts

Good thread guys and thanks Jun for making it all possible.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:07 AM   #45
SeiserL
 
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Some like your good self, can carry yourself with restraint and deportment,
Yes, many people think I should restrained and deported.
You must have actually seen me train.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 12-09-2006, 07:13 AM   #46
Mike Sigman
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

I have some thoughts I'd like to pass on to you guys outside of Aikido (and to the "insiders" too), but they'll have to wait until I get back from the Aikido seminar that I, as an insider, am attending. Hmmmmm.... what are the criteria for being an "insider", BTW?

Man, you should see me in my little white ice-cream suit being deferential to and taking the opinion of "the correct way to do things" from all including a 12-year-old boy. It's great hearing all the opinions and listening to the instructor's perspective. But more on that later. I agree essentially with Rob's perspective.... all this stuff is, or should be, about martial arts. There is a commonality to good Asian martial arts, not these imagined differences and bragging points.

Best Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 12-09-2006, 07:34 AM   #47
DH
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

I'd pay to see that...you in a white suit. Did you haver your bow tie?


I will be heading out to the dojo to train with four AIkido guys this morning. After the two I trained with Tues.

Remember folks..... other folks are getting out and training from outside Aikido....in.


Dan.
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Old 12-09-2006, 08:43 AM   #48
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Jun, thank you for the metaphor of the crickets quietly chirping on the site. I guess I am such a cricket; and this site is a fine cricket ground.

In gassho,

Mark
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Old 12-09-2006, 09:08 AM   #49
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

I think that when most people post something, they have a good feeling because they are getting to express their own opinion. Then there is the followup excitement of wondering how others will respond to what you posted. Some folks have developed an addiction to that feeling. Then, in the process of posting and arguing, it is possible to drift into a mindset where we are just having fun defending our own argument. After that, we find ourselves standing on the slippery slope of gratifying our ego. Part of gratifying the ego involves finding a spot where I feel superior in my argument because it feeds my self identity and reconfirms to me that I am on the right path, so I argue harder because I really want to believe I am on the right path. Then I find myself caught in a never ending cycle which keeps repeating itself.
A possible symptom of this psychological malady is posting and posting on the same essential subject over and over again. I have felt a feeling like this myself and I believe I have felt it from others. That's why I have largely stopped reading the forum section of Aikiweb. I don't want to be caught in that cycle myself and I am tired in getting caught in reading the effects of that cycle in others. Somewhere in there are also swirling around all the other legitimate reasons non practicing people post here.

I must say though that if you look at Hooker Sensei's original question, it seems to be pointed at those with this kind of a problem who in fact are non practitioners of Aikido. In my way of thinking, some of this is OK but when so many of the threads devolve into the old hash, it's time to go somewhere else.

In short, if people are balanced, they should post in a balanced way. A non practitioner by that standard would have his say and eventually get on back to the forum discussing his own art, learning his own art and thinking about his own art. Someone who is looking to make the same argument every time and turning every tune into the same old song may have a problem that will ruin this for the people who happen to believe Aikido is sufficient for them..
I have no need to go to a BJJ or Aikijujutsu forum and get my jollies by playing the only song I know on their guitar. The bottom line is that if I am relatively ego-less in this, I will help others but if It is really all about me, then that will eventually come out as well and clearly be seen for what it is.
Best wishes,

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 12-09-2006, 12:15 PM   #50
AsimHanif
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Re: Why are you here on this forum?

Jorge...
what you said.
Very well done my friend.

Asim
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