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Old 11-08-2006, 09:22 AM   #1
markwalsh
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Nonviolent Communication

Non-violent communication is a system for listening, expressing and thinking in a peaceful way. Some aikidoka refer to it as "verbal aikido" as there are many similarities.

http://www.cnvc.org/index.htm

I have found it very useful in my own life with family, girlfriends, colleagues, etc. It is particularly good at diffusing anger and makes a very practical addition to physical waza.

I am interested in hearing from any aikidoka who practice NVC or are interested in at, as I am currently working on a crossover project. Jerry Green, Ike Lasater and David Weinstock all in the W Sates I am already appreciative of.

Many thanks,
Mark Walsh
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Old 11-08-2006, 05:28 PM   #2
SeiserL
 
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Compliments on your work.
Too bad we didn't connect sooner.
I lived in Irvine, CA until 3 months ago.

Nothing beats good manners, humble humor, and working towards a win/win solution.

Check out the good people at Aiki Extensions too.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:28 AM   #3
markwalsh
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

I Lynn - Good to hear from you.

I pretty much work for Aiki Extensions now full time - here in São Paulo with Jose Bueno an AE council member who you may know (and having a great time)?

Met Marshall Rosenberg yesterday (NVC founder) - he knows and clearly appreciates aikido having done some joint ventures in the past. His talk was funny, touching, informative and free to boot - again recommended.

Surprised at a lack of response to this thread.
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Old 11-09-2006, 05:21 AM   #4
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Quote:
Mark Walsh wrote:
Surprised at a lack of response to this thread.
Don't be surprise, most of us have enough difficulty with the content of Aikido on the mat, let alone apply the principles and process to life.

Anything I can do to be of some small assistance, please feel free to ask.

PS. Give Don my best when you see him. I have a lot of respect for what the man offers.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 11-09-2006, 09:56 AM   #5
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

I have studied his work some, and my sensei has been to several of his workshops. I haven't been to a workshop yet, but did like what I read, and do try to practice it. I have found it hard to practice, but then so is Aikido.

Guy
:-)
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:17 PM   #6
markwalsh
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Hi Guy,

If you know of any other folks that way - and I suspect there are a few - could you please put them in touch with me or this thread.

I also find it very challenging, but worthwhile.
Thank,
Mark
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:57 PM   #7
bleepbeep
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

We had a subject on it in the masteral course and I liked it a lot. It is relatively new here in the Philippines and it was called Conflict Communication. But we did use that book (Nonviolent Communication) as a reference.
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Old 11-10-2006, 05:30 AM   #8
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Read the book on verbal judo. Also read some of the articles on the site. I'm definately interested. The approach seems really straight-forward, direct and not 'hippyfied'. Doing some scenario stuff later this year relating to conflict resolution (i.e. trying to stop a fight before it starts and seeing combat in its real (human) context). Really like the humanistic approach. We get so carried away with our rights, beliefs and sense of order or hierarchy that we forget that everyone is simply a human.

Ian

Last edited by ian : 11-10-2006 at 05:37 AM.

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Old 11-10-2006, 05:46 AM   #9
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

P.S. Mark, I read some of the reviews of the non-violent communication book on amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nonviolent-C...e=UTF8&s=books

A few people basically said the author was really irritating! Do you think sometimes the interaction and loss of temper etc are necessary to communicate effectively? Is being nice all the time socially dishonest? Another thing I have discovered, is that we cannot even be sure we are being honest to ourselves, let alone others! In normal situations, when there is less to loose, we can be quite honest, but in tense situations we can find all sorts of justifications for our actions which convince ourselves that we did the correct thing, but are in fact self-deception. Maybe that is the purpose of other people! To point out our own self-deception?!

Last edited by ian : 11-10-2006 at 05:49 AM.

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Old 11-10-2006, 07:32 AM   #10
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Quote:
Mark Walsh wrote:
Surprised at a lack of response to this thread.
Hello Mark,

Well, perhaps some of us do not know what the issues are.

I teach negotiation theory in Hiroshima University and one major issue is whether one can subvert the usual norms accepted in communication (e.g., by lying and cheating) in order to achieve the aims of the negotiation. However, negotiation is a more specialized type of communication and it is generally accepted that one can bend the rules to some extent, much as one would do when playing poker, but not subvert them completely. (I can give you the evidence if you wish.)

If you look at the writngs of G Grice, you will see that a certain basic morality is presupposed in all forms of communication. When you go to your local store, you assume that the transaction with the check-out lady will be (a) truthful and (b) peaceful. So I think that the general assumption that communication will be truthful and peaceful underlies all forms of communication.

So why do you especially stress the peacefulness of communication? Is this really a major issue? For example, I am currently using in one of my classes. One is Pearl Harbor. In this movie and also in the earlier Tora Tora Tora, the main issues of the movies, and also of the US involvement in WWII, dealt with communication issues, which were not resolved satisfactorily. So, I ask you: how would 'Peaceful Communication' have dealt with the issues confronted by both sides in 1941 more satisfactorily than other types of communication?

I have a motive for asking this question. I could apply your concept of 'peaceful communication' to the problems currently faced by A-Bomb victims and Korean residents here in Hiroshima. I have long experience of 'communication' with Hiroshima city officials and Korean residents regarding a host of issues remaining since WWII. Everything so far has been peaceful, but unproductive.

Best wishes,

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 11-10-2006 at 07:35 AM.

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Old 11-10-2006, 12:53 PM   #11
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

IMHO, all communication is evaluated/translated through belief of underlying intent. If I step on your toe and you think it was an accident, it is evaluated one way. If its evaluated that I did it on purpose, well it sure is a different evaluation/meaning.

The meaning of a message, to that person (the receiver), is seen in the response elicited. It may not always match the intent of the sender. Senders need to be flexible in their communications and take into account the receiver's context, culture, and (as pointed out) history.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 11-10-2006, 04:11 PM   #12
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Ian - Firstly I'm glad you spent time investigating NVC, it feel satisfying when you recommend something and people take the time to look into it. NVC way of thanking

"The approach seems really straight-forward, direct and not 'hippyfied'"

I've found it very simple but very difficult to apply/remember to apply (like aikido). I first thought it was hippyfied but then I realized how practical it is. You can get angry people to calm down with it, make businesses more productive with it, save time with it, educate easier with it, have better sex with it, and almost anything else that involves two or more people can be improved by it.
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Old 11-10-2006, 04:30 PM   #13
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Quote:
A few people basically said the author was really irritating!
Over the last few days I've spent a bit of time with him and he's really funny! Also wise and generous. These are all judgements in NVC terms so I'd say I appreciated his sense of humour and that he took time to talk with me about aikido (which he knows of and appreciates) and met my need for mental stimulation.
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Old 11-10-2006, 04:31 PM   #14
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

BTW - If someone out there is more qualified (I have two years so maybe NVC 4th kyu) please step up as a bit worried I'm not representing the system well (self judgement)
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Old 11-10-2006, 04:37 PM   #15
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Quote:
Do you think sometimes the interaction and loss of temper etc are necessary to communicate effectively? Is being nice all the time socially dishonest?
This is not my view, though communicating anger (or boredom or grief) in a certain way is very much a part of NVC (eg, when we talk about "does ki exist" I feel really bored and pissed off because I have a need for novelty, so can we have other kinds of threads?). In fact NVC is very radical suggesting that when we are nice we are at the mercy of powerful elite and end up buying things we don't need, dying in unjust wars and generally being trodden on.

I found your points on other people as a mirror interesting btw - would like to think more about this.
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Old 11-10-2006, 04:54 PM   #16
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Hi Peter,

I've spent some time considering your post and have been thinking that I would like to reply in a standard "violent" Internet flame way (and this will not be kind to you), and then an honest NVC way so you can contrast, followed by a third post explaining the difference. Would this be useful and respectful? If this is cool with you I would be happy as I think this is an effective way to demonstrate NVC in a real communication.

I'm experimenting in this whole thread with my own communication, and am a little worried I sound weird, will get flamed etc, but think that's its worth it none the less.

Mark

Note - This thread was moved from the language to open discussion which frees the conversation up a little I guess. Request - Jun, would you mind stating a reason when you do this? I'm a little confused but am guessing that's it's because the thread has drifted from "aikido language" - I would like to understand.
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Old 11-10-2006, 05:25 PM   #17
Brad Pruitt
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

I know a little of this and have been trying to apply this in my life. I usually call it Aikido off the mat. I am not very good at it but continue trying. It's hardest at home. I try to stay present and self-reflective. It's a long road.

Brad
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Old 11-11-2006, 05:17 AM   #18
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

I will have to read more. Okay I haven't read any of the NVC material yet. Apparently you (Mark) are representing well. Thank you for that.

IMHO, the most important part for communication is listening with an open heart and mind. Gather your information about the receiver's heart and mind before attempting to enter and blend with them.

A metaphor I use is the difference between how one approaches a dog and how one approaches a cat.

Nice discussion. Compliments and appreciation.

Perhaps this has been moved to an open discussion because it also applies very well to out interaction inside and outside the dojo, and on and off the mat.

Lynn Seiser PhD
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We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 11-11-2006, 07:59 AM   #19
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

When I frist started training I read the "Magic of Conflict"....since then I have reread it a few times.
I love the idea od conflict being natural and not bad. I also love and practice the idea od extending to people when they are being unlovely. Aikido in the library is much harder than aikido on the mat but it is just as interesting.
mary
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Old 11-11-2006, 10:47 AM   #20
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Quote:
IMHO, the most important part for communication is listening with an open heart and mind.
NVC would agree with this totally. The listening training in NVC (50% of course) has been VERY useful to me. I also see aikido as the listening martial art as we blend to a particular direction of movement, and to do this we need to feel/see it. Shem we don't teach listening in schools eh, we just tell kids to listen?

Quote:
A metaphor I use is the difference between how one approaches a dog and how one approaches a cat.
Sounds fun, please say more., am curious. I use a dog/cat metaphor for attachment styles - ie some people have stronger needs for connection than autonomy and vice versa. Key to many divorces IME (in my experience - new one :-)
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Old 11-11-2006, 10:53 AM   #21
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Jun request this thread be moved to the "off-mat" forum (see Mr Seisers comments) so appears publicly on AW home page. I think this is a discussion of aiki principles after all and not say...carrots, and would like to make it more readily seen by other aikidoka as trying to connect people interested in both areas.

I know there are some fine lines here and your managing of the needs of hundreds of people appreciated, as surely not easy!
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Old 11-11-2006, 11:15 AM   #22
Mark Uttech
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

My usual first line of defense in verbal communication is to ask whomever to repeat what they said. Then I may ask for a definition. I usually repeat back what the person said, only I add a questionmark. I think this kind of defuses the initial energy. When I play chess, I may make an odd move; not to surprise my opponent, but to surprise myself as well.

In gassho,
Mark
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Old 11-11-2006, 07:05 PM   #23
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Hello Mark,

I have sent you a PM.

Posts in this forum do not appear on the AW top page, so I was not aware that the discussion was continuing.

I have read through the material on the NVC website and also the reviews at Amazon.com. The general impression I have is that this is a more ambitious development of what Terry Dobson was trying to do in Aikido in Everyday Life: Giving in to Get Your Way. I have spent some time discussing the issues here in Japanese in Stan Pranin's Dou magazine, since I think they are heavily culture-based and also that the cultural assumptions that Dobson makes are less applicable in Japan.

For me the issues here involve terms used. Non-violent is like peace and freedom: the meaning is dependent on prior assumptions, not necessarily shared.

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 11-11-2006 at 07:14 PM.

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Old 11-12-2006, 04:04 PM   #24
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

This might be a useful link to people - some clear NVC principles (also the NVC bookstore site, but I don't get commission so don't buy anything :-) Joke.

http://www.nonviolentcommunication.c...c/keyfacts.htm
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Old 11-13-2006, 06:04 AM   #25
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Re: Nonviolent Communication

Why are NVC and aikido related:

Both:
Have commitment to non violence
Blend with "attacker"
Transform enemy images
Involve the body, mind, heart and spirit.
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