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Old 11-07-2006, 09:41 AM   #1
Tony Wagstaffe
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Jon Bluming Interview

Please read this very interesting interview and the reference Jon Bluming makes to aikido! http://www.kyokushinbudokai.dk/inter...jon_blumin.htm
Something that all aikidoka should give a great deal of thought to!
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Old 11-07-2006, 11:32 AM   #2
ian
 
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Yep - very interesting. Its a shame he didn't go into more detail on his impression of aikido/ueshiba. Seemed a bit dismissive when he couldn't fight with them (though I suppose that is his measuring stick).

Seems to me a straight talking bloke and I find it hard to disagree with much of what he says.

I presume you got this link from a Karate person Tony?

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:23 PM   #3
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Ian,
Funnily enough, came across it from a judo site actually
Tony
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Old 11-07-2006, 05:28 PM   #4
Dan Rubin
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

<"So I told them that I could take dancing lessons in Holland.">

The way I heard it, upon seeing aikido for the first time, Bluming said: "If I wanted to see men in dresses dancing, I'd go to a gay bar." I suppose my version is a myth, but it has long been my favorite quote about aikido.

Dan
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:50 PM   #5
David Orange
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quote:
Dan Rubin wrote:
<"So I told them that I could take dancing lessons in Holland.">
From what I hear, Bluming is not one to mince words, but he does say that he has some respect for aiki-jujutsu and I know of at least one aikido man with whom he has a good relationship. That is Edgar Kruyning, 5th dan in yoseikan budo, who seems to be a man after Bluming's own heart.

I have two photos of Bluming and Edgar together--one in Edgar's yoseikan budo academy in Holland and one where Edgar is serving as the attacker for Bluming at a seminar. Edgar was awarded 5th dan in yoseikan budo by both Minoru Mochizuki and Hiroo Mochizuki, so he reflects both approaches to yoseikan technique. He's also 6th dan in judo and highly ranked in several other arts, including having a fighting background in Muay Thai--he trains with Otake Risuke in Katori Shinto Ryu and used to train with Sugino Yoshio. He's 36 years old, now and author of a number of books.

I met him in Shizuoka about 12 years ago and he was already a ball of fire. If anyone could give Bluming a good impresssion of aikido, it's Edgar Kruyning. Here's one of his books in English:

http://www.budovideos.com/shop/custo...cat=282&page=1

That one comes with a DVD showing alot of training in Japan as well as freestyle grappling and katori shinto ryu sword work.

Here's another book in Dutch. It's a two-volume set. I'm helping him with the English version:

http://www.beslist.nl/boeken/d000001...an_spirit.html

Edgar benefitted much from the martial traditions that Jon Bluming helped establish in the Netherlands and he will take the real thing far into the future.

Best wishes.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:01 AM   #6
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote:
Please read this very interesting interview and the reference Jon Bluming makes to aikido! http://www.kyokushinbudokai.dk/inter...jon_blumin.htm
Something that all aikidoka should give a great deal of thought to!
Why should we give this article a great deal of thought?
I skimmed it and thought how grateful I am to have my dojo.
Mary
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:12 AM   #7
Dazzler
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote:
Why should we give this article a great deal of thought?
I skimmed it and thought how grateful I am to have my dojo.
Mary
Well said Mary.
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:55 AM   #8
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Well, if you face someone like Bluming on or off the mat, you'll figure it out quickly But that only matters if your aikido needs to "work" in the physical sense in that kind of environment. I know aikidoka who have been on the mat with Buming...sounds like a trip! May not be everyone's cup of tea...but it never hurts to have that exposure. At 45, I couldn't hang like that on a regular basis, but it sure is nice once in a while.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 11-08-2006, 09:03 AM   #9
Dazzler
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Well, if you face someone like Bluming on or off the mat, you'll figure it out quickly But that only matters if your aikido needs to "work" in the physical sense in that kind of environment. I know aikidoka who have been on the mat with Buming...sounds like a trip! May not be everyone's cup of tea...but it never hurts to have that exposure. At 45, I couldn't hang like that on a regular basis, but it sure is nice once in a while.

Best,
Ron
Sorry Ron - don't really accept that I have anything to figure out here.

I know perfectly well that not everyone plays nicely like we do in the dojo.

To me the small Aikido reference in this article shows just another person that doesn't understand Aikido saying it doesn't work.

Have heard this soooo many times I really don't need to give it any more thought than I already have.

Regards

D
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Old 11-08-2006, 09:14 AM   #10
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Well... maybe its just what he is implying that there is so much b------t in aikido and for that matter other M.A. to!
I would have to agree that he is right! I personally feel that too many hide behind the conveniant philosophy and martial art dance that is so prevalant these days....sad but true!
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:28 AM   #11
David Orange
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote:
To me the small Aikido reference in this article shows just another person that doesn't understand Aikido saying it doesn't work.
Well, as I said, he's good friends with Edgar Kryuyning, who is a real aikido man. But then, Edgar came up in that Dutch environment, which has hundreds of years of association with Japan and a terribly vital budo world. The thing about Bluming is that he has a deep respect for budo and so much of modern aikido has lost all budo associations that many aikido people have no idea what that even means.

Best wishes,

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:42 AM   #12
acot
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

What's the most amazing thing to me was how easily Ueshiba was able to defeat him. When you get to the point of ridicule... You've lost. How much easier would it have been to just to give in to ego? O Sensei was truly a great force.
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:43 AM   #13
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quote:
David Orange wrote:
Well, as I said, he's good friends with Edgar Kryuyning, who is a real aikido man. But then, Edgar came up in that Dutch environment, which has hundreds of years of association with Japan and a terribly vital budo world. The thing about Bluming is that he has a deep respect for budo and so much of modern aikido has lost all budo associations that many aikido people have no idea what that even means.
Well pointed out!
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:05 AM   #14
Basia Halliop
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

I actually didn't see anything offensive about his comments. So he didn't see anything there that interested or impressed him, and for whatever reason was unable to see anything for himself to change his mind (ie, try it with someone). He just gave his honest observations of what he saw and what he thought of what he saw.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:38 AM   #15
Mike Grant
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Never mind Bluming, his grandmother sounds pretty ferocious with that umbrella. God forbid she ever gets a bokken in her hands
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:19 PM   #16
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quote:
Ryan Bertram wrote:
What's the most amazing thing to me was how easily Ueshiba was able to defeat him. When you get to the point of ridicule... You've lost. How much easier would it have been to just to give in to ego? O Sensei was truly a great force.
?????

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:52 PM   #17
wayneth
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

What I think Ryan means by Ueshiba Sensei being able to defeat him by saying no to what Jon Blumming asked for...which was to fight him or another one of Ueshiba Senseis students.
Wayne
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Old 11-08-2006, 01:03 PM   #18
Tim Fong
 
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

David,
Kruyning sounds like one hell of a guy. Holland seems to produce some formidable fighters. I've noticed a lot of Dutchmen in k-1 for example.

Tim
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Old 11-08-2006, 01:30 PM   #19
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quote:
Wayne Price wrote:
What I think Ryan means by Ueshiba Sensei being able to defeat him by saying no to what Jon Blumming asked for...which was to fight him or another one of Ueshiba Senseis students.
Wayne
Sorry, but it just sounds like so much O Sensei worship to me. But hey, to each his own...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 11-08-2006, 06:20 PM   #20
acot
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Cool Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Which do you think creates the greater victory, going to war and winning in battle, or not going to war at all? I do not worship O sensei because of his techniques, but for his nonviolent approach. For that I do keep a deep level of respect, and it's exactly why I practice the Art of Aikido.

Ryan

Last edited by acot : 11-08-2006 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 11-08-2006, 06:42 PM   #21
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quote:
Ryan Bertram wrote:
Which do you think creates the greater victory, going to war and winning in battle, or not going to war at all? I do not worship O sensei because of his techniques, but for his nonviolent approach. For that I do keep a deep level of respect, and it's exactly why I practice the Art of Aikido.

Ryan

So you worship A Human Being? Ueshiba Sensei was a human being you know... albeit a supposedly enlightened one. If you read the interview Jon bluming only wanted a match to test the efficacy of aikido and its students. I do not think he intended to kill anyone per sey!
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Old 11-08-2006, 07:00 PM   #22
acot
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Jesus was a human, Buddha was a human, Ueshiba was a human... We don't worship people, we respect what they were about. Mr Bluming was clearly taunting him, and Ueshiba was able to see though it.

Peace
Ryan
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Old 11-08-2006, 07:46 PM   #23
raul rodrigo
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Actually, Morihei's senior students at that time were known to take challenge matches to demonstrate the effectiveness of the art. Tohei did. Yamaguchi beat the young Saotome, then a judoka, which convinced him to take up the art. Later Saotome would be sent to take on challengers from other arts. So its not true that the Aikikai at the time refused challenges as a matter of principle. So the refusal of Mr. Bluming's request must have been due to another reason.
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Old 11-08-2006, 07:52 PM   #24
Gernot Hassenpflug
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quite likely. Probably nowadays the issue is far less important.
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Old 11-08-2006, 07:57 PM   #25
chris w
 
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Re: Jon Bluming Interview

Quote:
Mike Grant wrote:
Never mind Bluming, his grandmother sounds pretty ferocious with that umbrella. God forbid she ever gets a bokken in her hands
awesome! why couldnt i have come up with that one
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