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Old 11-29-2001, 09:15 PM   #126
Mike Collins
Location: San Jose
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Hey, If you try to Krotty them and you try to judo them and you try to kungfu them and all of that fails, all that's left is to aikido them.

Unless you know how to ninja them
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Old 12-20-2001, 10:25 AM   #127
Steve
Dojo: Salina Aikido Club
Location: Salina, Kansas, USA
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Quote:
Originally posted by mariko nakamura

SNIP
It was also said that we generally defend ourselves against poor attacks. I'd also like to say that most of the Aikidoka I know have all studied Karate,Judo and Kendo in school. So the attacks are very professional and very real.
SNIP
During practice, if one of your dojo mates connected with a punch, would it be hard enough to break your cheek bone? Knock you unconcious? Has anyone in your dojo tried to kick you in the groin with full force? Would you be seriously injured during kotegaeshi if you didn't move to protect your arm? If you did not respond in time to a yokomen strike, would you suffer a head or neck injury that would require medical attention? Are any of us truly defending against real attacks in the dojo?

Steve Hoffman
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That's going to leave a mark.
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Old 12-20-2001, 10:51 AM   #128
shihonage
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve

reality
Q: So practice, then, is a series of progressive approximations of reality and sometimes they reach reality?

A:Well, to be perfectly brutal, I don't really like the way you are wording that. Only in the sense that ... I mean it's true, but it's going to give people the wrong idea. That is to say, here again, it is real. All the way when you're really practicing Aikido on the mats with me, it's real no matter who I'm with any time.The difference is when you're able to practice it at a high enough level, you can't get into something that is more, you know, no holds barred. In other words, you don't have to restrain yourself from going into the things that are more dangerous. It's real in the sense that no matter how much a beginner you are on the mats, if you do the wrong thing, you're going to get hurt.

If a beginning person comes up to me and he says, "I bet I can hit you in the face" and he hits me in the face, there is a chance that that person might end up on their head and they might not know how to fall. There's another chance that they'll end up softly down on their back without getting hurt.

Q: So they are not approximations of reality, but rather;they are reality based on the student's own ability?


A: They are real .. different levels of reality, exactly, see the difference? The key phrase is, "It is all your level of ability." O'Sensei was known to always have said, "Ai te no chikara awasu and what this means, loosely translated, is that you have to practice at the ability of your partner, and it always has to be the stronger and more adept person that has to adjust to the less adept, for obvious reasons. If I try to go as hard as I can with you, Joe, you're probably going to die, you know what I mean.?


Q: Yes!

A:And I don't think that anybody should ever think that just because I am practicing with a 14-year-old kid out there that I'm not doing real Aikido or that this kid is not doing real Aikido. Because, it is real Aikido! They're doing the very best that they can.When we talk about levels of adept-ness, that's a different story, but the same thing does hold true. When somebody's trying as hard as they can to punch you, and trying as hard as they can to do the technique right, I'm trying as hard as I can too, to do Aikido with them, no matter what level it is. The ugly reality is, and it is just as beautiful as it is ugly, is this ... in Japan, as you now well know, for the first two years that I had my dojo, forgetting about problems that I had with the Mafia, yakuza, or anything else, because I was the only Caucasian that had taught in Japan, I had people every day, trying to, what Westerners would call getting a cheap shot or hit me from behind, whatever, trick me, get one in on me. Quite frankly, even if I wasn't white, there is a tradition among serious Martial Artists, that is to say, if you don't demand a real situation, a real atmosphere in your dojo, where people are able to go hard, and they do go hard, then your practice becomes, in my opinion ineffective. Like, for instance when somebody in an Aikido dojo says OK ... and they stop here (pointing to the end of his nose). They go to punch you and they'll stop before they hit you.When you attack me you better come to really grab me, you better come to really punch me, you better come to really kick me, or I'll get really upset, because then, you are ruining Aikido, you are ruining the practice, and then yes; there is no reality, and there is then a different approximation of reality because you are playing games. Am I making sense?


Q: Yes.

A:The only other thing that I can say here is that traditionally in other dojos, you'll find a lot of different teachers trying a lot of different things a lot of different ways. It takes time for the beginner, in order not to get hurt, to be able to go fullbore at Aikido.

It does not mean that before he can go full-bore that he is not serious and that he's not trying as hard as he can, or that what he is doing is invalid in any way.In other words, somebody might be able to punch me and kick me as "fast as'anybody, but he can't take the fall afterwards. So, because of that we have to alter the practice. What it is, is that we have to adjust to the strength and the level and the different aspects of levels of ability of the student. It is back to "Ai te no chikara awasu."

Now maybe he's a great Karate Shodan and a great fighter, but maybe he just can't take the falls. So I'm not going to be able to throw him, or I'm going to hurt him. This doesn't mean to say that he's not going to be able to attack me seriously either. The only thing that a student like that shouldn't do is; they shouldn't try to sneak up on somebody and give them the best the have from behind or whatever, because then you don't necessarily know who it is behind you and you go to throw him or her, you know what I mean I mean there are situations where they have to be careful.

..snip...

When I go from dojo to dojo, sometimes for example; I see people attacking each other and then I see the Uke falling before he's even been thrown, falling before he's even touched. How could this possibly have anything to do with Aikido? O'Sensei always said "Aikido wa budo de aru." And what I felt he really meant was, "This is a martial art and if it doesn't work, take up aerobics, take up dance, or take up a gun. But don't call it the Martial Arts." Aikido is a Martial Art. OK? I think that there are Aikido dojos in America that have damaged the name of Aikido and many of my different friends that I respect and are Karate Masters, and Kung Fu Masters, say Gee ... Even a lot of my students became my students by accident because they had seen Aikido and thought it was a joke. They saw people randomly taking falls for each other.I think that the two of you here can testify that you've really tried to hit me, and you've really ended up on the mat and you know that it's the real thing because it hurts, and it works.Basically, what I feel is that you have people practicing like this in many places because they never learned it before in the first place.

O'Sensei said that the basics should never change. So when you don't know your basics, and then you try to make it up as you go along, it starts to resemble something that ... doesn't even resemble Aikido.O'Sensei always talked about shinken shobu, or fighting to the death, or at least with that feeling. So that if somebody lives, fine, and if somebody dies, that's too bad, either way. It's that seriousness of life or death that's lacking with many people and they end up making it a play.. Aikido is not a play.You know, I used to hear stories of O'Sensei. People were trying to kill him constantly. Many times he was faced with death. Many times people tried to kill him. They didn't try to punch him, they didn't try to throw dirt in his face, they tried to kill him. You know there's a difference. And that's why O'Sensei's Aikido worked.


(from an interview with Steven Seagal Sensei).
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Old 12-20-2001, 04:36 PM   #129
Steve
Dojo: Salina Aikido Club
Location: Salina, Kansas, USA
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Quote:
Originally posted by shihonage


BIG SNIP

(from an interview with Steven Seagal Sensei).
I wondered why that message was so incoherent until I saw the last line.

Steve Hoffman
+++++++++++
That's going to leave a mark.
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Old 12-21-2001, 09:10 AM   #130
Arianah
Dojo: Aikido of Norwalk
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Quote:
Originally posted by Keith R Lee
If there aren't any injuries occuring in your dojo, it might not be a bad idea to ask yourself how realistically you are practicing.
I don't think that injury should be the standard for which we base the "reality" of our practice. If you have enough control of your technique, there shouldn't be an exorbitant amount of injuries in a dojo. Just last night, I nearly threw my uke head-first into a wall, but I was able to pull my throw back to keep him from doing so. Yes, I could have just kept going and smashed his head into the wall, but I don't see how this would have made my Aikido more realistic; just more reckless and brutal. I see what you're getting at, but I don't think that if in someone's dojo people aren't getting seriously hurt, that they should feel inadequate and like fakes, and certainly no one wants to encourage (even subconciously) inflicting injury because it makes the practice more "real." Injuries do occurr, but they should be seen as an unfortunate side-effect of practice, and not something to "strive" for. I know you don't mean that we should be purposely hurting each other because otherwise we're faking it (at least I hope you're not ) but comments like that, interpreted the wrong way could have a negative impact. It is a tricky subject, because we want to train honestly, but at the same time, don't want to put everyone in the dojo in the hospital.

Arianah

Last edited by Arianah : 12-21-2001 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 12-21-2001, 12:34 PM   #131
Abasan
Dojo: Aiki Shoshinkan, Aiki Kenkyukai
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Quote:
Yes, I could have just kept going and smashed his head into the wall, but I don't see how this would have made my Aikido more realistic; just more reckless and brutal.
if you did that, you won't be much of a nage. Plus, every nage will have to be uke at one time or rather, and what goes around comes around.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 11-27-2002, 11:56 AM   #132
JasonDelucia
Dojo: Kensho ryu
Location: Bellingham
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Re: NHB Fighting and Aikido

regarding scott 's question of aiki in NHB

my name is jason delucia ,and i was in the

first and second ufc's.i have also fought

more than fifty professional fights in japan.

i have studied aikido intensely

for many years and now consider my self to be

proficient enough to execute it in any forum

but the truth of professional fighting is

a corupt phenomena.

for example the barring of certain

moves and attitudes to insure the success

of the event 's primadona.most of such

practice is done behind closed doors just

prior to the event.and it is effective

enough to curtail the effectiveness

of something as beautiful as aikido.

further more it denigrades the abilities

of the true martial artist who spent in

excess of twenty years to forge a system.

because they can create A TITO ORTIZ

in one year by simply shaping the rules to suit his limited style ,lie about his weight

and steroid use.

and when i say barring of certain holds i mean it . for example i fought in

UFC J against JOE SLICK .The contract

we agreed to ''just''before the fight

said that ''SMALL JOINT MANIPULATION OF

THE WRIST AND NECK WOULD NOT BE LEGAL''

this single rule virtualy wiped out the

ability to perform aiki in this event!

this is nhb?no ,it is insurance.

when will the rules of such an event support the use of aiki?

either when there are enough people who can do it ,so that one fighter cannot demand high prices for performances,or when the powers that be have secured the owner ship

of such a talent.

i consider that i have only recently been able to apply aiki in nhb , because as any one knows who does it ,it takes a million years to be proficient,as it truly is a synthesys of all arts .

every system has as it's guts every other system.but as long as steroids ,sex ,and egotistical ignorance are cheap and marketable these pornographers will not legitimize the true arts.

keep the faith

jason delucia





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Old 11-27-2002, 01:11 PM   #133
Roy Dean
 
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Wow.

Jason,

I know exactly who you are, and have much respect for your fighting abilities. Not only were you willing to go to the best to test yourself, but you've trained under the best and pushed yourself even further by fighting professionally. I'd still have to say your kicks were the fastest to ever be executed in Pancrase. Beautiful and lightning quick.

I'm disappointed in reading your accounts of corruption in NHB competitions. The steroids are a given, and I've heard many accounts of last minute contract additions/ modifications, especially in Japan.

I still think it's possible to use aiki in NHB competitions, though. Not necessarily the techniques of Aikido, but the circular movements and blending (which, IMHO, is what Aikido is really all about).

While I don't "admire" the technical aspect of Tito's game in NHB, it's hard to argue with his effectiveness. Even if gained through "supplementation", his attribute development is amazing,

By the way, I picked you to win over Joe Slick in UFC J. Your injury was a fluke accident, and I had difficulty watching it.

I'm interested in hearing more about your experiences, in particular your training with the Lion's Den.

Great to have you on the forum. I look forward to future posts.

Sincerely,

Roy Dean

Discover Who You Are

www.roydeanacademy.com
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Old 11-27-2002, 02:15 PM   #134
paw
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Jason,

Welcome to the forum.

I saw your fights in the UFC but never followed your exploits in Japan (Pancrase events, right?). While I appreciate your comments and admire your willingness to test yourself in the ring and in the cage, I confess to being concerned about some of the statements you make in your post.

In particular, I was under the impression the UFC did drug checks (wasn't Barnett stripped and suspended of his belt for failing a drug test?) and I was under the impression that cutting weight was commonplace (in the same way it is for wrestling, judo, weightlifting and so on...). Clearly you have more experience in this than any of us here on the forum, so if you contend that I've bought a hollow marketing package from the promoters, I would defer to your judgement.

Roy and Jason,

No one can deny that Ortiz is a formidable athelete physically. However, reading your posts, I gather that you feel Ortiz is lacking technical skill.

Could you both elaborate on that further? I'd be very interested in your perspectives.

Regards,

Paul

PS

Roy --- saw you sparring with Boa on the new BJJ dvd. You looked good, bro! How long have you been a purple belt?
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Old 11-27-2002, 06:06 PM   #135
Roy Dean
 
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Paul,

Perhaps I should have been more specific when I was referring to Tito's game. Do I think he's lacking in technical skill? No. All ranges of his standup are superb (punches, kicks, Thai style clinch), plus his Greco takedowns are very tight and virtually unstoppable.

It's Tito's ground game that I'm not partial to. Tito knows BJJ (cross trained at Joe Moreira's, plus with his Team Punishment fighters Ricco Rodriguez and Fabiano Iha), and knows how to avoid submissions. His awareness level is very high, and he's trained himself to deliver punishing blows from within the guard for long periods of exertion (he said he can pound a guy for 20 minutes straight against the fence and I believe him).

Even his guard passing is good (did you see that slick pass over the leg of Shamrock?). That said, he never goes for submissions... which is what I admire most in MMA competitions. I must admit I'm partial to guys that go for the tap. Guys with a submission based game like Carlos Newton and Minotauro and Bustamonte are the ones that I admire. It's a personal preference, but I feel that's where the beauty of the game is most exemplified.

Tito knows submissions, but almost never goes for them (going by memory here, so I might be mistaken. I also saw his Abu Dhabi performance, and even there it appeared that he wasn't a "submission" fighter at heart [esp. when contrasted to somebody like JJ Machado]). Of course, if you're dominating the match and don't need to risk a positional transition to enter into a submission, then it's smart to not take the risk. So I understand why Tito plays his game. Why mess with a winning formula?

I feel similarly with Matt Hughes. Both are amazing atheletes, with technical savvy to boot, but given a similar size ratio to Minotauro vs. Sapp, could Matt Hughes or Tito Ortiz pull off a victory? I don't know, but I'd certainly like to witness an answer!

I do not question their effectiveness or technical ability. However, I prefer an aggressive submission based game over a submission negation based game.

Thanks for the props on the DVD. I got my purple this summer and am still trying to grow into it.

Paul, I always enjoy reading your posts and perspectives. If you're ever in the San Diego area, be sure to drop by the Harris Academy. You have an open invitation.

Sincerely,

Roy Dean

Discover Who You Are

www.roydeanacademy.com
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Old 11-29-2002, 01:46 PM   #136
Bruce Baker
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I don't know what we need to do with those of you interested in showing prowess and fighting ability .... except to let you get some fighting experience to get it out of your system?

I thought most of you have realized by now that Aikido is not the whole puzzle of martial arts, but a piece of it ... even if it is a key piece.

No one martial art will protect you.

(for the one thousandth time ...)

Remember this and much more will become clear.

You take what works for you in martial arts training so that you can protect yourself, protect your life.

I am getting a little tired of the "My martial art can beat your martial art attitude."

Why should we even develope martial arts if weapons make the bigger stronger man? There is an irony in trying to correct the misconceptions of those who haven't had to fight for their lives in one kind of situation or another ... or being in a situation where you are overcome by superior fighting skills and must use tact or dirty tricks to extricate yourself.

After reading six pages of mostly non-sense,( with a few words of wisdom from those who have "been there, done that"), I am wrung out at the stupidity of narrowmindedness that dominates this thread.

Aikido is not specific to what is taught in our Aikido classes. It is an additional addendum of learning that adds to our knowledge from training in other martial arts. So long as you can add to your arsenal of defense or offense, who cares what style it comes from?

It is not very Aiki to pigeonhole pay per view events with everyday life. If your pay per view is that important in validating Aikido then go train to fight in those events and stop theorizing about what could be or couldn't be.

As for the mention of finding someone to train with when you are 6'6" tall and 280 pounds .... I am only six feet tall and that weight, but I will practice with you. Besides, I am getting tired of being gentle with these little guys under 220 pounds.

The only problem with tall guys is that they forget to bend their knees deeply enough to get the feeling that smaller people get to make their smaller size effective.

As far as BJJ? Yeah, it is the artist and not the art that makes the difference. Pity they don't allow a bit more Aikido, but then there would be so many more serious injurys, wouldn't there.
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Old 11-29-2002, 05:55 PM   #137
paw
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Roy,

If I understand, you're not a big fan of ground and pound, which is Tito's and Matt's forte. Gotcha. I totally understand. Submission is much more elegant and final to me than ground and pound as well.

(Thinking aloud, there's a number of fighters that are leaning towards ground and pound these days... Lawler, Liddel, Hughes, Ortiz, Trigg, Militech... It seems like the only people that work for submission have a strong bjj background) It would be very interesting to see Ortiz or Hughes facing a big weight/strength difference. I'd also think it would be interesting to see either of them on their backs! Although it seems like all of Tito's opponents are fantastic match ups on paper, Tito's been extremely dominating .... but I've digressed.

Thanks very much for the invitation to San Diego. When fate allows, I'll definately take you up on that!

Warm Regards,

Paul
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Old 12-02-2002, 11:12 AM   #138
JasonDelucia
Dojo: Kensho ryu
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paw and roy and everyone

Quote:
paul watt (paw) wrote:
Jason,

Welcome to the forum.

I saw your fights in the UFC but never followed your exploits in Japan (Pancrase events, right?). While I appreciate your comments and admire your willingness to test yourself in the ring and in the cage, I confess to being concerned about some of the statements you make in your post.

In particular, I was under the impression the UFC did drug checks (wasn't Barnett stripped and suspended of his belt for failing a drug test?) and I was under the impression that cutting weight was commonplace (in the same way it is for wrestling, judo, weightlifting and so on...). Clearly you have more experience in this than any of us here on the forum, so if you contend that I've bought a hollow marketing package from the promoters, I would defer to your judgement.

Roy and Jason,

No one can deny that Ortiz is a formidable athelete physically. However, reading your posts, I gather that you feel Ortiz is lacking technical skill.

Could you both elaborate on that further? I'd be very interested in your perspectives.

Regards,

Paul

PS

Roy --- saw you sparring with Boa on the new BJJ dvd. You looked good, bro! How long have you been a purple belt?
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Old 12-02-2002, 12:17 PM   #139
JasonDelucia
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paw and roy and everyone

jason here ,

with regard to tito ,it is true

as he goes he grows,technically and physically

with regard to drug testing,sure they test

one guy to say they are doing it ,but it's

all show .first of all there are so many ways to block steroid tests with other drugs,

not to mention the big time users are all doing growth hormone which ,because it occurs

naturally in the body there is no way to test for it.

as for titos stand up game ,

anyone can kick pads and look the part,

like any one can ''twirl a sword''

it's use in reality is different

i hear the kid say '' i know thai boxing ,and i know ju jitsu ,like he went

out and mastered it over the summer.

show casing himself this way is smart business, but whats the reality.i'ld say

let's see him stand up with chuck lydel,

or jason delucia...thats right!

and as for his ground game.,lets see him

do his version of '' jujitsu''

(drug enhansed wrestling)

against a real jujitsu practitioner

(jason delucia)

let s not forget frank shamrock's wrestling

teacher was ken shamrock but his jujitsu

teacher was ''jason delucia''thats right!

in fact he brags about going through the lions den but forgets to mention frank

shamrock whos ju jitsu is marginal at best,

but frank won didn't he.

that was an aspect of his technical

lacking that gets hidden by his strategy.

that he does stand up with a wrestler

and wrestles the stand up fighter.

and what i mean when i say jujitsu,

i'm refering to aiki jujitsu .

in keeping with the forum

some one says that he doesn't believe

suwari waza would be effective in nhb

''eee thank you for playing''

that it takes a very long time to learn

makes it seem that way ,but it is just

the system that would make guys like tito

look like beginners.

if you doubt it, ask tito if he wants

to fight about it.winner take all ,then youll

see a real fight .

i ve sacrificed many things to learn

a true system ,and aikido is it .

some fighters like to say ''they'' are the greatest ect.but i tell you it will be a

system not a man that will be superior.

back of a true system is a spirit,

not an ego ,a spirit!

if the good people at zuffa

want to keep the spirit of martial arts

in the event ,an original ufc martial artist

(jason delucia) will be glad to show tito

all he aint .so ''tito''do all the drugs

you want i have kokyu

and long after your body succumbs to

steroid related illness

kokyu power will be keeping us real martial artists alive

to bruce baker ,always remember ,

they say that when he used a ''ken'' it became

an ''aiki ken'' and when he used a ''jo'' it became an ''aiki-jo''

aiki is like uranium,theres a little of it every where ,even tito uses some aiki

to the degree that you distill the power out of your waza you aproach the traditional

forms the more power used the more deviant

the form.

sore ga kakutoka no seishin ryoku de aru jason delucia
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Old 12-02-2002, 02:47 PM   #140
Talon
 
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Jason!

I just did a little research on your fight history and found a mention that you challanged Steven Segal at his Dojo back in 1992. Is that true? and if so how did that match go?

here is the quote i found " In 1992 in response to his direct challenge.  Jason went to Los Angeles to challenge Steven Segeal to a fight in his Dojo. (Harua Matsuoka)"

Pardon my simplistic approach to this but I just had to ask. Also, your back ground is primarily Kung Fu right? How long have you been training Aikido and are you still involved in proffessional fighting...

Thanks,

Paul
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Old 12-03-2002, 05:57 PM   #141
JasonDelucia
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hi paul,

yes i did go and challenge steve segal

in his dojo ,standing in for segal was matsuoka harua a very nice man,who put up

with my visiting his dojo morning and night

studying while i awaited segal's answer.

you see it was segal who said in black belt magazine ,''anyone who wants to fight me , come to my dojo'' so i did.

he never responded but i persisted

for months.interestingly enough it was rorion gracie who told me, i could have been hurt .

shows what real fighters think of aiki

but i have been studying aikido right along

and through my fighting career i have been transforming my self to aiki only style .

as that is the only way to do aiki efffectively.

i still fight ,in fact since the birth

of my son i have not fought in well over a year .and much for the better ,for the time

away from fighting i was able to transmute

and make the final leap.while before my fighting suffered due to the conversion

now it will be something un worldly

no one has as yet done traditional aikido

in an nhb environment, i will be the first

and maybe the onlyin my life.

it's true i started with other styles

but to me it's like automobiles .

they may not have started in japan

but as of right now the best models are

from there.
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Old 12-03-2002, 06:12 PM   #142
akiy
 
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Hi Jason,

Welcome to the AikiWeb Forums! I appreciate your sharing with us your experiences in the "No Holds Barred" competitions and such; it's quite interesting, and I hope you'll continue to share with us your thoughts and experiences.

Just a quick technical pointer, though. When typing up a message, you don't need to hit the "return" key when your cursor nears the right-side of the text box. Just keep typing! That way, the text won't be broken up into separate lines like your posts are but, rather, will be more compact and readable.

Thanks,

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Old 12-04-2002, 10:46 AM   #143
JasonDelucia
Dojo: Kensho ryu
Location: Bellingham
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first to darin hyde .i know why it is many people feel that the ''seasoned'' aikidoka would not do well in ufc,but it is slightly misleading.first because to be ''seasoned''

you must be a martialist as well as artist.

99%of practicing aikidoka are not truely

seasoned but artisticly seasoned(i don'tspell very well)it would not take a great deal for them to make the leap,but i'm sure per their station in life they see no need.similarly there are many bjj people who currently teach the art but would be destroyed against a ''seasoned'' ufc practitioner.well,as a seasoned ufc practitioner I will be using aikido in my next nhb fight ,and in validation of this truely great thing that mr.ueshiba gave to everyone,it must happen this way.

let me say to those who say that ''this genre of martial arts will pass away''let's remember history.jigoro kano who was a teacher of ueshiba formed judo from the same situation a hundred years prior.but in order for this to happen he devised a tournament between the existing ufc types and his own group of true elites like SHIRO SAIGO ect.the team lead by kano dominated devastatingly so.from that, the elite martial artists taught the lower case jujitsu techniques ie.sport judo ,bjj,sumo....while hiding the superior techniques ie.suwari waza daito ryu, kito ryu,shinkage,hosoin,yagyu,taksan ga aru............anyway it's a hundred years later and i have been doing what needs to be done .i wish (and i'm hoping through this forum)there are enough real aikido practitioners out there with enough faith to step up and repeat history.i would add that i beleive history will repeat it self except at the moment there is not enough faith and support ,but if you really want it to happen, besides writing in this forum you must patition ufc to subsidize a true test between the tradional aikido team (my self and any one who is able,let's do this)and this group of ''antiaikidoka''(drug enhanced wreastlers,and some very talented martial artists as well)but as a professional fighter i asert aikido is the highest form,and as much as o sensei was apposed to competition he never refused a challenge,especially where it would serve a greater good.the greater good in this case would be to retore humility

and respectable behavior first off,and to show

something inspirational instead of it's antonym.who do they consider to be the best in this forum ?bring them on !and whos with me ?let me know before i leave let me thank those whose writings videos and following i have made use of to bring this about (i'm sorry if i misspelled their names ,but i 've been hit in the head a bit)OMITTING THE OBVIOUS:MATSUOKA HARUA, STEVEN SEAGAL, KENSHO

FURUYA,YOSHIMITSU YAMADA,KENJI TOMIKI'KOICHI TOHEI,O SENSEI TAKANO AZABU AIKIKAI,RINJIRO SHIRATA,GAKU HOMA,BRUCE KLICKSTEIN,JOHN STEVENS,MORIHIRO SAITO,SHIODA GOZO,JAMES MITOSEI, HI IL CHO,SOKAKU TAKEDA,JIGORO KANO,KYUZO MIFUNE,HIROSHI IKEDA ,MAS OYAMA,KANAI ,EGAMI,MIYAGI,WALLY JAY,AND ON AND ON but they warned me about using to much space so in gasho PS. this is a time to do more than just talk ORGANIZE!

KEEP FAITH JASON DELUCIA
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Old 12-04-2002, 11:25 AM   #144
Talon
 
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Jason!

Thanks for the enlightfull posts on here. I am really glad to see someone of your caliber on these forums. You mention that you feel comfortable in using Aiki now. How long have you been training Aikido?

I'm just wondering because I'm still a beginner and would like to see when should I expect to feel proficient in using Aikido in a real life confrontational situation.

Paul
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Old 12-04-2002, 04:16 PM   #145
Roy Dean
 
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Jason,

That's what I respect most about you, your willingness to lay it on the line and experience for yourself what others only speculate about.

Aikido is an amazing martial art. It's changed my life and I've witnessed it transform the lives of others. For development of specific attributes (namely sensitivity and timing), Aikido is second to none. The techniques are martial and genuinely effective, but in my humble opinion, highly situational, and I simply do not see these situations happening in an NHB environment. This is my opinion on a topic I've thought long and hard about.

Shiro Saigo defended the honor of the Kodokan using yama-arashi (going by memory here), a Daito-Ryu technique that Obata Sensei demonstrates clearly in his book "Samurai Aiki-jutsu". A good technique, a devastating technique, but it's a technique that:

1. Is dependent on a gi.

and

2. Exposes your back to your opponent.

Even Mochizuki, who cross-trained when few others did, was unable to emerge victorious in challenge matches in France when limiting himself to only using Aikido. So, he would switch it up and use Judo or Karate according to the situation. Ueshiba was unconcerned with Mochizuki's lack of success, because, in my humble opinion, he had a different aim.

I believe the techniques of Aikido are physical metaphors for Ueshiba's philosphy of non-violence. The principles of Aikido can be applied in all arts, including MMA competitions. However, the techniques themselves have limited application in that environment.

Perhaps you can go to Sankyo if someone is trying to choke you from behind, but by and large the techniques practiced in a "typical" (and I know there's a lot of variety in that word) Aikido class are too dissimilar from an NHB match. What Aikido techniques will prepare you to escape from a heelhook, or flat on your back and smashed up against the fence? The principles apply, but not the techniques.

If you do enter another NHB match representing Aikido, then know that I'll be cheering you on. I think you're a very skilled individual, and well rounded martial artist. I'm glad that you've found Aikido, and are injecting new life and martial vitality into this elegant, timeless art.

Good training to you,

Roy Dean

Discover Who You Are

www.roydeanacademy.com
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Old 12-04-2002, 09:07 PM   #146
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Quote:
Roy Dean wrote:
Even Mochizuki, who cross-trained when few others did, was unable to emerge victorious in challenge matches in France when limiting himself to only using Aikido.

.
I'm interested in getting more information on Mochizuki (esp. in regards to above challange matches). Can anyone clue me in / post an URL?
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Old 12-04-2002, 10:41 PM   #147
chadsieger
Dojo: Minh Sensei
Location: Allentown, PA
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Jason,

Thank you for your interesting and quite unique input. I don't follow NHB fighting, so I'm sorry to say that I had not heard of you before today. I do look forward to hearing of your future success in the ring should you decide to return. Fatherhood is a challenge in itself!

Being from the Northeast, if you ever come near Eastern Pennsylvania (Allentown) I would like to invite you to our dojo. Although we don't promote "NHB" fighting (unless attacked of course), I'm sure that we (our dojo and you) would both benefit from your visit.

Anyway, in Aiki, the door is always open.

Sieger

Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is exactly the place to train-
M. Ueshiba
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Old 12-05-2002, 11:53 AM   #148
JasonDelucia
Dojo: Kensho ryu
Location: Bellingham
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roy,it is true to an extent about yama arashi,

but some will say that ''mountain storm''apllied to the frantic vigor with which saigo combined gi choke with sweeping

hip throw'' blitz kreeg'' might have been as

apt a name ,but in truth if you 've ever seen this throw done with out a gi you'ld see that you neither expose your back or need a gi to perform it .for acurate translation of this throw it would be best to go to an eagle claw kung fu style,because it exists only as kuden

in aiki circles,

with regard to your belief that aikido is metephor only,no.because they practice without the benefit of the extra curricular training that gave the true power

to the technique,ie logging ,farming,sumo

the practitioners effectively preserve and

pass on the knowledge without necesarily being completely effective.it is true you need to know enough of the ground work in case ,but there comes a time that you never decend to the lower realm.this is natural,

basically you don't need to go lower than seiza.but the chances increase that you might

when dealing with sport ,because for example if you've ever sat in some ones guard in seiza

and the reff admonishes you to ''not be defensive''you understand.or simply stand up

and wait for your opponent to stand instead of going into the lower realm s ,and if your in the lower realm it is the principle of kokyu that takes you back to the higher realm,then stay there.bridge and roll is a kokyu waza.we tend to think that mr.ueshiba did not do ground work ,untill you see photos of his kata gatame.also remember when you refer to someone resorting to karate when his aiki failed?karate is a pillar of aiki and i quote.atemi is 99% or 66% of aikido. but theres one way for sure to see if i know what i'm talking about,who do you think? the best fight for me to show it on would be ''chuck liddel''a real martial artist
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Old 12-05-2002, 11:59 AM   #149
JasonDelucia
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chad sieger ,i'm sometimes near allen town

thanx for the invite, perhaps in the future
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Old 12-05-2002, 02:53 PM   #150
Talon
 
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Jason!

How long have you been training Aikido?

Paul
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