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Old 10-27-2006, 08:11 AM   #1
"Lucy"
IP Hash: 43fec652
Anonymous User
Blush! Crush on a Yudansha!

It's so embarassing, but I'm really attracted to this Yudansha. I would never act on it, for fear that it would ruin the great dynamics we enjoy in our dojo. But It's hard for me to look at this person w/out blushing, and frequently I feel uncomfortable in techniques. Will time help me get over it? I think I would rather leave the school than talk to anyone about it, but it's such a good school!

Any advice?
 
Old 10-27-2006, 09:33 AM   #2
Eric Webber
Dojo: Aikido West Reading
Location: Reading, Pa
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Dojo relationships can be a very grey area. Talk to your sensei about it, see what he/she thinks of dojo relationships, cohai/sempai intimacy, etc. If you don't think you can talk to your sensei about it, it probably is not a good thing (on several levels). Sometimes just waiting it out and getting to know the person better off the mat can help you decide what to do, as well. Good luck.
 
Old 10-27-2006, 09:57 AM   #3
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Focus on training, that is what you are at the dojo for. If something else nice should happen, fine, but don't push.

Pretty much the same advice no matter where you are, in'it?

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
 
Old 10-27-2006, 10:08 AM   #4
James Davis
 
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Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

When class is OVER, bait the hook. If he doesn't like what he sees, you go home with no fish.

If he refuses, then you can leave your tackle box at home and still enjoy the swimming.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
 
Old 10-27-2006, 01:11 PM   #5
RoyK
Dojo: Nishin Kan
Location: Herzliya
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Israel
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Quote:
Eric Webber wrote:
If you don't think you can talk to your sensei about it, it probably is not a good thing (on several levels).

Offtopic : Why is it not a good thing? Do you find that having that kind of communication is beneficial to the study?

For the topic: I've read in Ellis Amdur's book something about relationships across ranks, and the dangers involved. I don't know what your rank is compared to him, but I know that I've been in a relationship where I looked up to the person and haven't got the same attitude back, and the other way around. Both relationships weren't very pleasent, so be careful.
 
Old 10-27-2006, 01:52 PM   #6
Eric Webber
Dojo: Aikido West Reading
Location: Reading, Pa
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Hi Roy,

I think that it is important to be able to trust your sensei, in the realm of technical aikido as well as other areas of your life, for the fullest experience of being together in this journey. I think it is more difficult to study with a teacher you do not trust and/or respect on a personal level and still try to trust him/her with your physical safety on the mat. If aikido was merely a physical practice I would have a different opinion, but I do not consider it as such, and therefore expect a certain amount of trustworthiness out of my teachers.
 
Old 10-27-2006, 02:42 PM   #7
Amelia Smith
 
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

I certainly don't think you need to talk to your sensei about it. Just because you don't want to confess all to your sensei doesn't mean that you don't trust him/her.

I've had my share of crushes in the dojo, and then some. As you get to know the object of your crush, you'll probably let him or her know how you feel, eventually. Just don't expect your feelings to be reciprocated. My on-the-mat crushes have mellowed over time, and I don't think they've been detrimental to my practice (maybe to my social life, but that's another matter!). On the contrary, having a crush on someone at the dojo kept me showing up through many of the frustrating times when I felt like I wasn't progressing, or my technique was falling apart, etc.

In the long run, in my experience, it's no big deal, and all part of the journey.
 
Old 10-27-2006, 09:40 PM   #8
Lorien Lowe
Dojo: Northcoast Aikido
Location: California
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 289
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Wait. More than anything else, this needs time. If you are new to aikido, getting used to the close, personal one-on-one contact can be a little overwhelming - especially when a good-looking sempai is clearly happy to see you and train with you. Non-sexual, physical friendships are possible in the dojo, but for the average westerner it's a new experience. In addition, it's easy for falling in love with aikido to be confused with falling in love with the sempai with that incredible ukemi who looks soooo ....good in a hakama.
Wait until you've become familiar with the dojo, with aikido, and with the sempai in question.

-LK
 
Old 10-28-2006, 01:39 AM   #9
xuzen
 
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

I thought this thread was about some awesome noobs crushing a yudansha with some awesome PINS or IMMOBILIZATIONS... oh well never mind.

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
 
Old 10-28-2006, 08:54 AM   #10
ian
 
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Yeh, I thought it had some physical crushing pain involved. Unfortunately this could be a worse affliction. I would certainly agree with Ron, that the dojo is for training. Also, women have a tendency to be attracted to powerful men, so it may just be his role that you are attracted to. I think, as said before, you 'bait the hook'. If the bait is taken, meet them in a completely different social situation where you can see other aspects of their character.

I did have a dojo relationship many many years ago and I have no regrets about it - it never interferred with our training, and indeed I look back quite whistfully on that time even now

(PS the roll eyes is suppossed to be whistful, not sarchastic, but thats the closest thing I can do. I hope it the two aren't confused when I make those facial expressions myself)

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
 
Old 10-28-2006, 09:57 PM   #11
"Been there"
IP Hash: 99376813
Anonymous User
Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

A few things to consider:
1. is he married or does he have a girlfriend? This may not be immediately apparent. I trained with one guy for 3 years (not someone I found interesting "that way") before I found out he was married. He just never, ever talked about his wife, and she never came to dojo social events.

2. How long have you been training at this school? Weeks, months, years? If only a short time, you may find your feelings change in a couple months or even less time.

3. Dan-ranked people that flirt with the newer students are not necessarily good candidates, especially if there is a pattern of this.

4. This is more or less the same situation as being attracted to someone in your office that is of higher status than you.

5. what kind of person are they OUTSIDE the dojo?
 
Old 10-28-2006, 11:14 PM   #12
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Why would there be anything more embarrasing with a crush on a yudansha than on other men?

Ask him out - off mat. If he does not accept, then train as usual. Maybe the two of you will avoid each other for a time, that is OK.
 
Old 10-29-2006, 09:19 AM   #13
RoyK
Dojo: Nishin Kan
Location: Herzliya
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 171
Israel
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Quote:
Eric Webber wrote:
Hi Roy,

I think that it is important to be able to trust your sensei, in the realm of technical aikido as well as other areas of your life, for the fullest experience of being together in this journey. I think it is more difficult to study with a teacher you do not trust and/or respect on a personal level and still try to trust him/her with your physical safety on the mat. If aikido was merely a physical practice I would have a different opinion, but I do not consider it as such, and therefore expect a certain amount of trustworthiness out of my teachers.
Thanks for the answer. I was asking because I feel I have a communications problem with my Sensei, in that we don't really relate off the mat, and I was wondering if it should be a reason enough to seek out a different instructor. But that's for a whole different topic... Thanks.
 
Old 10-29-2006, 09:27 AM   #14
daniel loughlin
Dojo: Oldham
Location: Manchester
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

thought that the in stood for love??
just a thought

Danny Loughlin
 
Old 10-29-2006, 10:11 AM   #15
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Quote:
Daniel Loughlin wrote:
thought that the in stood for love??
Nah, thats just a load of tree-hugging hippy crap.
 
Old 10-29-2006, 10:23 AM   #16
Qatana
 
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Quote:
Ian Dodkins wrote:
. Also, women have a tendency to be attracted to powerful men, )
What a crock. PEOPLE are attracted to Presence. Generally a "higher -ranked" person has more personal Presence and that makes them attractive. My mom had it. She wasnt a martial artist or a man and People treated her like some kind of Star.
In my experience there is that attractiveness in most people who work at developing themselves,and is not necessarily sexual or romantic but sometimes we have trouble identifying what we found attractive about that person. This is why religious figures get themselves into trouble..
Having said that, I do have a strong physical attraction to one of the yudansha at my dojo. And he is married and there is absolutely Nothing that can be done about it but to be aware that this is my training partner and this is my training.Eventually the "crush" part of it does go away.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
 
Old 10-30-2006, 09:39 PM   #17
Adam Huss
 
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

To Mr. Sean Orchard...as far as I've been taught, Ai most closely means "to fit together" and the kanji represents a lid fitting on a jar.
To "Lucy" Good luck with your situation! It can be tough, this dojo crush type of thing. In my experience, if a dojo relationship does not work out, one of the two people will no longer be a member of that dojo. I really can't give you any good advice, but good luck and I hope everything works out for you!
Cheers!
~Huss

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
 
Old 10-31-2006, 02:48 AM   #18
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Quote:
Adam Huss wrote:
To Mr. Sean Orchard...as far as I've been taught, Ai most closely means "to fit together" and the kanji represents a lid fitting on a jar.
To "Lucy" Good luck with your situation! It can be tough, this dojo crush type of thing. In my experience, if a dojo relationship does not work out, one of the two people will no longer be a member of that dojo. I really can't give you any good advice, but good luck and I hope everything works out for you!
Cheers!
~Huss
Fit them together with the mat!
 
Old 10-31-2006, 03:08 AM   #19
Yann Golanski
 
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Quote:
Sean Orchard wrote:
Nah, thats just a load of tree-hugging hippy crap.
Wow, I am still amazed at how many folks over here do not get sacasm. Ah well, does it make it more fun that way?

At least we are not Spartans... Talk about relationships in the dojo there! For those who do not know: Read Persian Fire by Tom Holland or The Spartans by Paul Cartledge or 300 by Frank Miller.

/cannot wait for 300, the movie, to come out.

The people who understand, understand prefectly.
yann@york-aikido.org York Shodokan Aikido
 
Old 10-31-2006, 03:27 AM   #20
"uhoh!"
IP Hash: 3f3924dc
Anonymous User
Blush! Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Along similar lines, I find my sensi's (adult) daughter attractive.

"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER, WILL ROBINSON"
 
Old 10-31-2006, 06:11 AM   #21
Bridge
Dojo: Slough Aikikai
Join Date: Jun 2004
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United Kingdom
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Quote:
Yann Golanski wrote:
Wow, I am still amazed at how many folks over here do not get sacasm. Ah well, does it make it more fun that way?
Any excuse to knock hippies, I'm totally in favour of.
 
Old 10-31-2006, 07:17 AM   #22
"Anonymous"
IP Hash: 970faeec
Anonymous User
Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

I'd say be careful, but not too careful!

I met my wife on the mat...
 
Old 10-31-2006, 04:40 PM   #23
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Quote:
thought this thread was about some awesome noobs crushing a yudansha with some awesome PINS or IMMOBILIZATIONS...
Quote:
Along similar lines, I find my sensi's (adult) daughter attractive.

"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER, WILL ROBINSON"
Thanks guys, you made me laugh

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
 
Old 11-01-2006, 12:01 AM   #24
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
What a crock. PEOPLE are attracted to Presence.
There are many things to attraction. Both women and men are more often attracted to people who, if in a relation, would mean the man is the one with higher formal or informal status - it is a general pattern in our society. You find more male yudansha dating female beginners than the other way around, and quite a few male doctors marrying their nurses or secretaries while the female doctors prefer to marry others doctors etc etc.

Becoming the girlfriend of, for instance, one of the instructors in the dojo unevitably changes a woman's informal status in said dojo. That is not entirely good, not at all. When the relationship is over, one falls down again - and that can be very hard to take, maybe especially the discovery that you for all this time have not been treated as yourself but as X's girlfriend. A man does not "borrow" some of his girlfriends or wifes status in the same way. Mrs Steward will rise to the status of Mr Steward, but not the other way around. These things comlicate things sometimes and relationships in the dojo have made many people stop their training. However, all these things are general to our society and not more lethal in aikido context than others.

Last edited by Hanna B : 11-01-2006 at 12:08 AM.
 
Old 11-01-2006, 07:40 AM   #25
Ecosamurai
 
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Re: Crush on a Yudansha!

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote:
Becoming the girlfriend of, for instance, one of the instructors in the dojo unevitably changes a woman's informal status in said dojo. That is not entirely good, not at all. When the relationship is over, one falls down again.
Met my girlfriend in the dojo (my last three actually for that matter, should probably get off the mat and get out more hehe), she will in the near future become my wife. I am her aikido instructor which is how we met. Our relationship on the mat is of teacher and student, off the mat it is not.

As to her status in the dojo, it is elevated above my other students but only because of these two things:

1) She's the one who trains the most with us on the mat and rarely misses an opportunity to practice.
2) Because of her dedication to practice she has the most experience and has advanced in rank quicker than all my other students.

For both of these reasons alone she would be my senior student regardless of being my girlfriend. I would go so far as to say that she's not my senior student because she's my girlfriend but rather she's my girlfriend because she's my senior student, no one else could possibly comprehend why I spend so much time and effort practicing aikido except someone who does the same thing

As to the original post of this thread I'd simply say this: Ask yourself if you're coming to aikido for the practice of aikido or to see the object of your crush. I've seen over the years a few people who didn't really want to go to the dojo to learn aikido but rather to find a girlfriend/boyfriend, and they tend not to continue training. Which is fine, there's nothing wrong with that but it may become important once your crush resolves itself (one way or another).

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
 

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