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Old 10-24-2006, 11:31 AM   #1
Stephen Pate
 
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Location: Western Kansas
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Organizational rivalry?

The groups I'm referring to are the USAF and AAA.

I have trained in 2 dojos which were at one time related and under the same national organization. In the previous dojo I tested once and became a member of the organization.

My current dojo recently became independent and is now in the process of affiliating with the second organization.

I have been advised that should I test with and become a member of this second organization, I may not be welcome at the first.

While I can imagine that it does happen, it does not seem like an Aikidoish policy.

My job has the potential of moving me every few years and I never know to where. I am fortunate to be in a town with even one dojo let alone a selection. I'd hate to not to train because of dojo prejudice.

Is there enough of a rivalry that I might consider not testing?

You must obey the Dance Commander.
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Old 10-24-2006, 12:10 PM   #2
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Organizational rivalry?

Test anyway. When you move, go by the ranking standards of the dojo in question. It may take a little longer, but eventually you'll probably be yudansha in both organizations!

Best,
Ron (That'll fix 'em)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 10-24-2006, 12:46 PM   #3
Hogan
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Re: Organizational rivalry?

Quote:
Stephen Pate wrote:
The groups I'm referring to are the USAF and AAA.

I have trained in 2 dojos which were at one time related and under the same national organization. In the previous dojo I tested once and became a member of the organization.

My current dojo recently became independent and is now in the process of affiliating with the second organization.

I have been advised that should I test with and become a member of this second organization, I may not be welcome at the first.

While I can imagine that it does happen, it does not seem like an Aikidoish policy.

My job has the potential of moving me every few years and I never know to where. I am fortunate to be in a town with even one dojo let alone a selection. I'd hate to not to train because of dojo prejudice.

Is there enough of a rivalry that I might consider not testing?

Stephen - you might want to take a gander at this old-closed post:
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...hlight=schisms

It deals with the apparent actions of AAA towards members who decided to leave & study elsewhere. That thread has been closed, for good reason, & I am providing the link for your info so you have background as to the feelings your AAA dojo might have - I don't want to intend to have it go into the gutter again by anyone....

By the way, as Ron suggested, test anyway & forget any feelings that one dojo may have - it's your training, not theirs.
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:02 PM   #4
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
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Re: Organizational rivalry?

Not testing probably won't hurt much besides your ego.

If there is value in testing, it is surely in the experience of studying for and taking the test itself, not the resulting rank. Testing separately at whatever dojos and organizations you train with probably won't be much different than taking them all in one place - except that it will take a little longer, cost a little more, and you'll take more tests.

I'd say either option is preferable to getting mixed up in political squabbles between dojos and organizations. So long as you aren't dealing with teachers that try to force prejudices on you or control your behavior outside their dojo, your best bet is to ignore this kind of thing or look upon it as merely a curiosity. It seems mind-bogglingly not "Aikidoish" to me as well, but it seems to be common.
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Old 10-24-2006, 06:33 PM   #5
crbateman
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Re: Organizational rivalry?

I think that most would recommend that you should maintain a testing program with whichever dojo you plan to train in the most. Hopefully, those in the other dojo will understand the logic in this. You could opt not to test in either, but you may feel that you will have need of your rank in the future, and it is possible that neither dojo will take the same offense to simply training part time in the other dojo as they would to seeking rank there. One other matter of good manners is to RESIST the impulse to state "Here's how they do it up the street..." unless you are specifically asked out of genuine curiosity to do so.
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Old 10-25-2006, 12:15 AM   #6
Jess McDonald
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Re: Organizational rivalry?

Isn't there always going to rivalry between styles and such; oh, my technique is better than so and so's. That's just part of the human ego. I would stray away from any person or organization that would treat me negatively because of my previous training. Do what feels right. If the dojo your at says test and you feel semi-confident, do it. Otherwise with your travel you'll never reach Shodan!!
Jess
(By the way, my style is better than yours)
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Old 10-25-2006, 06:41 AM   #7
ian
 
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Re: Organizational rivalry?

A student of mine also does karate and his karate instructor asked him 'do you know the tale about the hunter that tried to catch 2 rabbits?'

(inferring that if he did both he would be good at neither)

I would loved to have replied that aikido is not a rabbit; but what I did say, and I say this to all martial arts students, is be completely selfish about your training -

If you are training to become the best martial artist you can become, you owe it to yourself to train where you want and with who you want in a way which will best improve your ability.

Disuputes between instructors and affiliations should not influence the students. That is a sign of a poor instructor who is more bothered about his own ego, or the organisation, than he is about the progression of you as a student. I would not disagree, as some instructors say, that sometimes you need to be dedicated to a sensei to fully understand what he is trying to teach. However that shouldn't be dictated by the instructor - at the start the student is exploring and he is responsible for his own choices. Later on the student may be advanced such that he wants to apply what he has learnt in other clubs and test himself.

In short - no great martial artist stuck to one instructor (or even one martial art). Go where you feel you can learn the most. If you want to train with both, just don't tell them you are training or testing with another organisation (if they feel that way, they don't deserve your honesty - unless they can justify their reasoning!). Thus, in your case, just train wherever you are and screw the politics.

If the heads of these organisations have a serious technical disupute with another organisation I suggest that they issue a physical challenge and put their money where their mouth is - otherwise they should keep their necks in and realise its the students that put the bread on their table.

Last edited by ian : 10-25-2006 at 06:54 AM.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 10-25-2006, 07:43 AM   #8
SeiserL
 
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Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
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Re: Organizational rivalry?

IMHO, rivalry is based on insecurity and a belief in scarcity.

In my experience, any school welcomes some one who sincerely trains and is respectful of their way.

Test at home (where ever that is), and train with honest and genuine intent and intensity (where ever you are).

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 10-25-2006, 10:10 AM   #9
Stephen Pate
 
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Re: Organizational rivalry?

Thank you all for the advice.

I've decided to go ahead and test. I wasn't especially worried but it seemed worthy to investigate.

The only reason rank would concern me is if it determines the intensity of my training. I've accepted the potential of starting over every time I move.

You must obey the Dance Commander.
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Old 10-25-2006, 10:34 PM   #10
Tambreet
Dojo: Tenshinkan Dojo, Chicago
Location: Chicago, IL
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Re: Organizational rivalry?

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
Stephen - you might want to take a gander at this old-closed post:
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...hlight=schisms

It deals with the apparent actions of AAA towards members who decided to leave & study elsewhere.
The above-linked thread is from before my time, but I have been training regularly with the AAA in Chicago for over a year and a half now and not once have I been told that I couldn't train elsewhere, nor have I witnessed anyone else being told that. I've also never seen anyone visiting who wanted to train with us turned away.

I haven't actually been to any other aikido dojos, so I can't speak to how AAA students are welcomed at other organizations.
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