Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-10-2006, 01:17 PM   #1
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Ukemi training for the elderly?

Researchers have measured the decrease in impact force on the hip achieved by ukemi training. They are recommending ukemi training for the elderly to prevent hip injuries from falling.

"J Biomech. 2006 Feb 8;

Martial arts fall techniques decrease the impact forces at the hip during sideways falling.

Groen BE, Weerdesteyn V, Duysens J.

Sint Maartenskliniek Research, Development & Education, P.O. Box 9011, 6500 GM, Nijmegen, The Netherlands; Institute for Fundamental and Clinical Human Movement Sciences, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

ABSTRACT:

Falls to the side and those with impact on the hip are risky for hip fractures in the elderly. A previous study has indicated that martial arts (MA) fall techniques can reduce hip impact force, but the underlying mechanism is unknown. Furthermore, the high impact forces at the hand used to break the fall have raised concerns because of the risk for wrist fractures. The purpose of the study was to get insight into the role of hand impact, impact velocity, and trunk orientation in the reduction of hip impact force in MA techniques. Six experienced judokas performed sideways falls from kneeling height using three fall techniques: block with arm technique (control), MA technique with use of the arm to break the fall (MA-a), and MA technique without use of the arm (MA-na). The results showed that the MA-a and MA-na technique reduced the impact force by 27.5% and 30%, respectively. Impact velocity was significantly reduced in the MA falls. Trunk orientation was significantly less vertical in the MA-a falls. No significant differences were found between the MA techniques. It was concluded that the reduction in hip impact force was associated with a lower impact velocity and less vertical trunk orientation. Rolling after impact, which is characteristic for MA falls, is likely to contribute to the reduction of impact forces, as well. Using the arm to break the fall was not essential for the MA technique to reduce hip impact force. These findings provided support for the incorporation of MA fall techniques in fall prevention programs for elderly."

Last edited by CitoMaramba : 10-10-2006 at 01:18 PM. Reason: added "abstract"
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006, 02:47 PM   #2
miratim
Dojo: Albuquerque Aikido Kokikai
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 39
United_States
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

I thought people generally fell because they broke their hip, not the other way around. Maybe that's just an urban legend..
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006, 03:04 PM   #3
Basia Halliop
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 711
Canada
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Never heard that one before...

Slipping from poor footing or ice are very common kinds of falls for elderly people, who are at a higher risk of being less agile and able to deal with uneven footing, and our bones generally get more fragile and easy to break as we age, so a fall that would leave a younger person with just a few bruises or scrapes can easily mean broken bones for many elderly people.

Maybe this is a more widely known problem in icy climates?

Last edited by Basia Halliop : 10-10-2006 at 03:06 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006, 03:05 PM   #4
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

This is from the Introduction of the article I posted above:
"Hip fracture is a serious consequence of falls in elderly people. About 90% of hip fractures are caused by falls (Cumming and Klineberg, 1994). In particular falls to the side and those with impact on the hip have an increased risk for hip fractures. Interventions that reduce the fall severity of these more dangerous falls are expected to decrease the risk of fractures (Greenspan et al., 1994; Nevitt and Cummings, 1993)."

The full article is available from the Elsevier ScienceDirect website, in the Journal of Biomechanics.

Also since the hip bone is heavily vascularized, there is a danger of serious, possibly fatal, hematoma and blood loss, when the hip bone (pelvis) is fractured.

Last edited by CitoMaramba : 10-10-2006 at 03:09 PM. Reason: some additions
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006, 06:25 PM   #5
DaveS
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 91
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Ninety percent of falls end on the ground...
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006, 06:31 PM   #6
DaveS
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 91
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

And on a serious note, how advisable actually are ukemi off the mat? I've experienced a real world situation that reinforced for me why we do breakfalls the way we do on the mat - coming down a mountain in icy conditions, slipped, stuck my arms out to break the fall, sprained my wrist - but in that situation, I'm not sure that I'd have been happy to do a proper backwards breakfall and fallen in a relaxed way without using my arms. I might not have sprained my wrist, but an inconveniently protruding rock could have caught me in the back of the head while I was still falling at speed, causing a sudden and premature end to my day's walking...
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006, 10:24 PM   #7
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Quote:
David Sim wrote:
Ninety percent of falls end on the ground...
LOL!

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006, 11:03 PM   #8
Jeanne Shepard
 
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

It seems to me, as an occupational therapist who works with the elderly, that there are two problems here:
Firstly, the elderly fall because their balance is poor
and secondly, when they do fall, they tend to break bones due to ostoporosis.

It might be too late to help someone with ukemi training if they are at risk for breaking bones due to osteoporosis. I'm not sure I'd want to take that on as an instructor.

Jeanne

But, on the other hand, I'd like to see studies on people who've been doing Aikido to see if their bones are stronger from the years of physical impact.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2006, 01:02 AM   #9
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Quote:
David Sim wrote:
And on a serious note, how advisable actually are ukemi off the mat? I've experienced a real world situation that reinforced for me why we do breakfalls the way we do on the mat - coming down a mountain in icy conditions, slipped, stuck my arms out to break the fall, sprained my wrist - but in that situation, I'm not sure that I'd have been happy to do a proper backwards breakfall and fallen in a relaxed way without using my arms. I might not have sprained my wrist, but an inconveniently protruding rock could have caught me in the back of the head while I was still falling at speed, causing a sudden and premature end to my day's walking...
You've actually given a good argument in favor of the Waite-style back falls instead of the traditional backward fall. In the standard side-backward fall, you can control where you are going, your head tends to stay further from the ground, and most of the landing involves lowering yourself onto the side of your butt and hand, after which the rest of the fall is soft enough that hitting an object isn't going to be that big of a deal. If both legs slip out, and you do the side-backward breakfall, you can hold your head and torso up to some extent with your arms and also look where you are headed almost immediately. The more I get into these falls the less I like traditional backward rolls or backward slap falls.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2006, 07:23 AM   #10
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
United_States
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

A lot of people forget front break falls too. I perfer a front break fall to a back break fall. I've been lucky enough to never need to breakfall on 'the street'. One time though I tripped on my cat and fell down the stairs and did a perfect roll out. I've always looked at breakfalls as not a way to fall when you trip or slip, but a way to land so that when another man lands on your chest you can still continue to defend yourself.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2006, 09:18 AM   #11
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,339
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Last yr I was walking down the street and my foot slipped on a wet metal plate and shot up in front of me. w/o thinking I did the soft, nonslapping fall that is "in my body"--sort of a hybrid back breakfall/soft sidefall--onto the sidewalk, got up and kept walking. No pain.
The SINGLE most important thing physical thing for prevention of frailty and maintenance of selfcare skills in the elderly, based on research I recall reading in the 80s and 90s, is strength training for quads--it was remarkable in its effects. I would consider maintaining leg and core function number 1 key, the thing I'd least surrender!
In terms of the ukemi: we are taught NOT to thud down flat on our sacrums or on our hips. This in-between position, using large muscles of the bodies to land on AND moving as we fall instead of going down like a sack o taters, has to be an improvement at least over numbers of people if not in any one case.
We are also taught not to reach down w/ our hands to catch ourselves--the resulting colles fracture of the wrist is one of the most commoninjuries caused by a fall. And also, in the pre-bone density testing era, the way many older women found out they had osteoporosis--on xray when the fracture was diagnosed.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2006, 10:33 AM   #12
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 927
United_States
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Quote:
David Sim wrote:
Ninety percent of falls end on the ground...

80% of statistics are made up.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2006, 11:18 AM   #13
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

"There are three kinds of lies, sir.. Lies, damn lies, and statistics"
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2006, 03:47 PM   #14
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,267
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Quote:
Jeanne Shepard wrote:
It seems to me, as an occupational therapist who works with the elderly, that there are two problems here:
Firstly, the elderly fall because their balance is poor
and secondly, when they do fall, they tend to break bones due to ostoporosis.
Thanks for this post. I'd wondered about this, actually.

I always appreciate a point of view from OUTSIDE aikido per se when dealing with issues extending beyond aikido, per se.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2006, 12:24 PM   #15
John Brockington
Dojo: Retsushinkan/Birmingham, AL
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 65
United_States
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

I have been thinking about this recently, particularly in the context of what is "useful" about Aikido, or really any martial art. It is unlikely that the majority of martial artists will ever use their training in a "real world" fight, unless it is something they actively seek, for whatever reason. But every single one of us is going to fall at some time in our life. And if we have the good luck and genes and habits to live beyond age 70, a fall at that point in our lives could be catastrophic. This happens all the time, with an older person falling and breaking a hip or suffering a spinal compression fracture, leading to prolonged hospitalization, physical and mental deterioration, and death. If you talk to older people, they are terribly afraid of falling, and for good reason. So it is reasonable to surmise that one of the only aspects of martial arts training we will ever likely use for true self-preservation is the ability to fall well. Of course, most of us don't like to think about what our lives will be like when we are in our 70's or 80's or even 90's, but most of us will be there one day. Too many of us are preoccupied with the improbabilities of today, rather than the inevitable of tomorrow.

John
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2006, 12:42 PM   #16
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Quote:
John Brockington wrote:
So it is reasonable to surmise that one of the only aspects of martial arts training we will ever likely use for true self-preservation is the ability to fall well.
I have said something similar many times. My falling skills have already saved me from injury several times in the past 10 years, and timing and tenkan has saved from being hit by a bicycle as a pedestrian, but I haven't even come close to getting in a fist fight.

The part I take issue with is "only"; unless you are talking about self-preservation in terms of dealing with something that would be fatal in a short time. I have found getting back to Aikido has helped me with depression in fairly immediate terms. I also think I have gained a lot in terms of attitude, ideas, social and mental health over the long term - the lack of this influence would certainly have made my quality of life worse and thus depression problems worse as well. It may not exactly be death, but I consider the preservation of my "self" from depression vital.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2006, 03:42 PM   #17
John Brockington
Dojo: Retsushinkan/Birmingham, AL
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 65
United_States
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Kevin-
I totally agree with you, and really was talking about the most base form of self-preservation. As I re-read my original statement, however, it struck me that the term "the ability to fall well" could be applied to many things beyond just body impact on a hard surface.

John
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2006, 09:44 PM   #18
Jeanne Shepard
 
Jeanne Shepard's Avatar
Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Agreed. The ability to fall well can translate into an emotional resilence that can help us cope with emotional ups and downs too.

Jeanne
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2006, 01:13 AM   #19
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

If anyone is interested the full text of the scientific article is available on this web page
If your institution is a subscriber, you can access the article right away. Otherwise, it is available for purchase.

Last edited by CitoMaramba : 10-14-2006 at 01:13 AM. Reason: formatting
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2006, 06:03 AM   #20
markwalsh
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
Location: On the road - UK
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 515
United Nations
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

I've just started teaching an elderly man aikido - any advice on how to teach him ukemi? Ive started with half back rolls as seems most natural.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2006, 07:44 AM   #21
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Mark, (Walsh) I can suggest that you begin with tenkan ho and irimi ho exercises. You can also graduate into irimi ho and tenkan ho exercises against bokken, jo, and tanto. Each student is someone to study and each student can show you (through your own observation) what techniques will help them gain a strong center. I hope this bit of information helps. In gassho, Mark
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2006, 07:49 AM   #22
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

IMHO, start slowly with koho tento undo (sitting on the mat, rounding the back and rocking gently back and forth). After a few repetitions ask if he feels any discomfort. This can give a clue whether he has any conditions to watch out against (vestibular problems, joint problems, osteoporosis, etc). Then gradually increase the difficulty of the exercises.
Please congratulate your student (and accept my congratulations to you for teaching) for taking up this exciting adventure. Gambatte kudasai!

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2006, 09:01 AM   #23
markwalsh
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
Location: On the road - UK
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 515
United Nations
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Thanks guys
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2006, 05:03 PM   #24
Aviv
Dojo: Aikido in Fredericksburg
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 103
United_States
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Since January 2006, we have been teaching an Aikido for Seniors class. Students are from 55 to 82 in age. It is "no fall". The seniors have increased their flexibility, stability, coordination, strength, and awareness. This should serve them well in warding off falls.

Peace, Aviv Goldsmith
Aikido in Fredericksburg
www.aikidoinfredericksburg.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2006, 05:34 PM   #25
markwalsh
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
Location: On the road - UK
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 515
United Nations
Offline
Re: Ukemi training for the elderly?

Cool Aviv - I wonder why there are not more off these classes?
Seems like a good opportunity for all.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Article: On the Interdependent Nature of Tactics and Strategies by "The Grindstone" AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 50 04-19-2007 12:59 PM
Am i missing something?? aikigirl10 General 119 04-20-2006 12:07 PM
Article: Clarity and Self-Delusion in One's Training by George S. Ledyard AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 65 12-24-2005 07:34 AM
Does Budo require a sense of shame? senshincenter General 72 09-12-2005 02:06 PM
When Can an Instructor Stop Training? Magma General 42 10-20-2004 01:51 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:52 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate