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Old 12-20-2010, 11:46 AM   #501
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Simon Kirk Sørensen wrote: View Post
I would like to know, what you think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI93GFmfiOw
Oh dear

I was more impressed with the cure for `hiccups` seemed to work very well.

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:51 AM   #502
lbb
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Apropos of nothing, every time this thread pops up as having a new entry, I'm reminded of the calculated, disingenuous rhetorical question, "Why do you hate freedom?"
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:52 AM   #503
Aikirk
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
You are just as delusional as the people in the video .... see if they can actually do it you before producing such crap!!!!
I had this tried on me and nothing happened .... something about me not being receptive or some such bullshit
Thank you. I like being called that. I choose to stop our conversation know.

To anyone interested:

In the world of Kyusho, this is understood as energy-projection. Energy is being projected into different pressure points, and causes activation of these. It's a high-high level mastery, and it's similar to activating pressure points, just without touching them.

It's only for demonstration as these things can be countered, if the uke used is determined not to make it work.

Yes I have tried something similar. Not a knockout, but me jumping 8 feet back from having energy projecting into my shoulder. And no, I do not respond if not something is happening. My sensei tried one spot first, which had limited to no effect, while the second one had me reacting as if a pressurepoint was actually struck.
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:58 AM   #504
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Simon Kirk Sørensen wrote: View Post
... There was no stance, just standing relaxed is if you where waiting for a bus and the other person holding you from behind around the stomach trying to lift you from the ground. So there was no structure like pictured in the link.
Well, this different approach to the 'unraisable body' can be studied also under a scientific perspective.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:04 PM   #505
Aikirk
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Well, this different approach to the 'unraisable body' can be studied also under a scientific perspective.
I will look forward to viewing the result. I will share a little secret about this test. We didn't lower our center of gravity or altered our tension. We just thought of light or heavy things. Very odd, but the effect was clear as had the uke gained 50 pounds.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:05 PM   #506
chillzATL
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I said forget the word "Ki".... And as you are so familiar with it?

Posture or kamae to you, high, medium, low..... done whether you turn, pivot or otherwise, standing up, kneeling, seiza, shikko, whatever Japanese terminology you wish to use which I don't, other than names of waza we use in the basic 17 we use in T/S aikido, whether walking on the knees, whether holding a weapon or not.... Posture is fundamental to all fighting arts, whether Asian, Western or otherwise and is a natural stance which we tidy up a bit with aikido by keeping ones centre of gravity low whichever stance one takes, this is achieved by bending the knees and keeping relaxed..... body weight distributed 2/3 front leg and 1/3 back leg or in the case of mushin mugamae (no posture) ,,,,, shizentai, both legs have the weight evenly distributed again with knees bent and the body relaxed.....
Care for any more?

Now you explain to me what "ki" is......
Tony, come now. What you described here is nothing more than basic posture and weight distribution. Posture is posture, not ki. You said you could describe "ki" as body mechanics, so please, do so.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:15 PM   #507
dps
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Hi Charles,

Quote:
Charles David Henderson wrote: View Post
Hi David,

There are researchers studying the neurological effects of meditation whose basic headline is -- "if it fires together, it wires together." (that is, a chemical reaction resulting in electric discharge within the nervous system, for the unpoetic.)
http://belleruthnaparstek.com/hot-re...ilitation.html

"Brain scans show that motor imagery leads to the activation of the same brain areas as actual movement. In addition, it suggests that it is possible that even observation of a movement performed by another can play a similar role in learning."

http://books.google.com/books?id=w-F... skill&f=false

dps
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:17 PM   #508
dps
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

I think that the title of this thread should be changed from,

"Why do some people hate Aikido?"

to

"Why do some people in Aikido hate Aikido?"

dps
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:19 PM   #509
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Some of the best people in the world have taken their best shots at him. I have personally witnessed some of it. If you think that someone like Katsumi will not face up to it, then by all means, give it a go yourself. Katsumi is one of the greatest full contact, karate tournament fighters period. Ushiro Sensei is open to anybody stepping up to the plate. A K-1 champ tried it as well, same outcome. That is why so many people have left their teachers and are now studying with him. As a psychologist, I think that I have a very good understanding of hypnotic process, psyched out...... I would venture to say that my understanding of those areas is greater than your own. That being said, I am a genuine skeptic and always step up to the plate to test things out. I have and continue to do so with Ushiro Sensei. That is why I am additionally training with him and taking the significant time and expense to travel to Japan and bring him to the US.

I think that you know by my posts that I am not an aiki-bunny. I can also acknowledge levels and skills sets that go beyond the ordinary. Ushiro Sensei's use of Ki is one such person who can deliver the goods, regardless of whether you believe in it or not. Then again, come to Lyon and test it out yourself. You and I can wash down your experiences with some nice suds (or wine) afterward. First rounds on me...

Most of the stuff that looks fake, is fake. Then again, there are some people out there whose stuff looks fake and simply is not and far beyond where we are.

Marc Abrams

ps- The guy who did the series "mind-body kickass" is from England. Contact him directly and ask him privately about Ushiro Sensei.
So you have studied psychology, so what? Even the best have been hoodwinked..... and that's a fact!!
I've studied in the university of life and there is no better experience other than experiencing life itself. I have met no one who can actually put their "ki" on or manipulate me other than physically for real...... You, like many, have taken it in your mind that he has mystical power, therefore you believe it.....No different in whether you believe in Santa Clause or some old geezer with a white beard and little cherubs flying around him /it.
If you want to send me the airfare or travel tickets + hotel /entrance fees FREE of charge then I may entertain it, otherwise I will be washing my non existent hair.....
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:22 PM   #510
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
Tony, come now. What you described here is nothing more than basic posture and weight distribution. Posture is posture, not ki. You said you could describe "ki" as body mechanics, so please, do so.
That to me is what so called ki manifests itself from.... so c'mon explain me your "ki" either that or shut up...... or are you going to me?
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:23 PM   #511
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
.... I'm talking about people who are gullible ....
No, you specifically said "They make a fortune." That's what I responded to.

"I am not a big fat panda. I am the big fat panda." --Po, Kung Fu Panda
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:25 PM   #512
RonRagusa
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
It's not that something else is happening. The same thing is happening, two people are having a difficult time lifting one person. What you have shown is the equivalence of two metaphors used to explain the same real event. The physics metaphor is mathematical while the ki metaphor is experiential.

My question is, when it comes to instructing Aikido students on how to achieve weight underside, which model makes the better teaching tool?

Best,

Ron
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:26 PM   #513
CNYMike
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I've personally found that when you repeat something 1000's of times over it's never the same each time, but the doing does kinda get better over time.... nothing mysterious about that.....
And I didn't say you wouldn't get those repitions, only that the ki model might help your brain direct your body in repeating whatever it is you're doing. If it works for you great. If it doesn't, don't do it.

"I am not a big fat panda. I am the big fat panda." --Po, Kung Fu Panda
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:27 PM   #514
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Simon Kirk Sørensen wrote: View Post
Thank you. I like being called that. I choose to stop our conversation know.

To anyone interested:

In the world of Kyusho, this is understood as energy-projection. Energy is being projected into different pressure points, and causes activation of these. It's a high-high level mastery, and it's similar to activating pressure points, just without touching them.

It's only for demonstration as these things can be countered, if the uke used is determined not to make it work.

Yes I have tried something similar. Not a knockout, but me jumping 8 feet back from having energy projecting into my shoulder. And no, I do not respond if not something is happening. My sensei tried one spot first, which had limited to no effect, while the second one had me reacting as if a pressurepoint was actually struck.
As always we go around in circles just like religious nutters always do...... so blind is your rhetoric......
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:30 PM   #515
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Apropos of nothing, every time this thread pops up as having a new entry, I'm reminded of the calculated, disingenuous rhetorical question, "Why do you hate freedom?"
nothing to do with freedom..... I feel free because I do not believe in such nonsense, as you would have me believe Mary?
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:34 PM   #516
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote: View Post
And I didn't say you wouldn't get those repitions, only that the ki model might help your brain direct your body in repeating whatever it is you're doing. If it works for you great. If it doesn't, don't do it.
Personally I only repeat that which is worth repeating and is applicable and common sense and works for me.... that applies to anyone who is rational.....
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:38 PM   #517
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote: View Post
No, you specifically said "They make a fortune." That's what I responded to.
Oh sorry, whichever way you look at it.... they make a fortune out of others misfortune and bad luck? Ie in the religious sense? The crutch people need to make sense of life and all that.....
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:40 PM   #518
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM_qg...eature=related
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:41 PM   #519
chillzATL
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
That to me is what so called ki manifests itself from.... so c'mon explain me your "ki" either that or shut up...... or are you going to me?
Well that's all fine and good Tony, all sorts of things manifest themselves from good posture, but that's hardly an explanation of ki or its usage via body mechanics. I seriously doubt that good posture was all that Kano and Tomiki saw and wanted to learn from Ueshiba. So please, continue.

Also, I wasn't the one who made the claims about ki being simple body mechanics. So the burden of explaining it is on you.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:45 PM   #520
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
It's not that something else is happening. The same thing is happening, two people are having a difficult time lifting one person. What you have shown is the equivalence of two metaphors used to explain the same real event. The physics metaphor is mathematical while the ki metaphor is experiential.

My question is, when it comes to instructing Aikido students on how to achieve weight underside, which model makes the better teaching tool?

Best,

Ron
Common sense!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:46 PM   #521
Marc Abrams
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Simon Kirk Sørensen wrote: View Post
I would like to know, what you think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI93GFmfiOw
Simon:

What do you think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0

Marc Abrams
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:53 PM   #522
Aikirk
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Just want to clarify a couple of things:

1. I'm an atheist, and will remain this for a while.

2. I'm open minded, and refuse to reject things which I have a hard time figuring out.

3. Our dojo is charging about 12 pounds each month for membership and training 3 times a week. You be the judge weather or not this price is unfair.
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:59 PM   #523
mickeygelum
 
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

While discourse yeilds a profound understanding of feces...yes, feces...bovine fecal material to be precise.

I ponder the query, " Is this rhetoric, might it reflect disingenuous intellect or the absence of a twenty-third chromosome?".

While I enjoy unbridled liberty, I do not enjoy yours, the freedom to euthanise at-will is not yet legal.

And so, the proliferation of bovine feces abounds, it's source inexhaustable.

Ad hominem, no... sarcasm, per chance...a simple observation, ab-so-frickin'-lutely!
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:00 PM   #524
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
Well that's all fine and good Tony, all sorts of things manifest themselves from good posture, but that's hardly an explanation of ki or its usage via body mechanics. I seriously doubt that good posture was all that Kano and Tomiki saw and wanted to learn from Ueshiba. So please, continue.

Also, I wasn't the one who made the claims about ki being simple body mechanics. So the burden of explaining it is on you.
Nope, as always its the same as religious people who cannot explain there belief in some imaginary god, they just have blind faith, not rational faith which I am very happy to have........ Sorry if that disappoints you, as life usually is sometimes more mundane than people want it to be...... In my experience some or most things never live up to their claims..........
I try to explain with rational thinking and reasoning not something you cannot prove from nowhere as some mystical power....
I would hazard a guess that you may be religious or have tendencies towards the mysterious and unexplained in some way?...........
Or do you believe that everything will be explained given time and science......?
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:05 PM   #525
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Why do some people hate Aikido?

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Simon:

What do you think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0

Marc Abrams
Only for the chosen ones with their tongues in the right place.

This Benny Hinn video is much better.
http://aikidoellisvideo.magnify.net/...e-Bodies-Hit-t

Benny has his tongue in cheek for this

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
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