Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Testing

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-18-2006, 03:38 PM   #26
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

I can come up with other reasons...for one:

They consider their rank an issue between themselves, their teacher, and their students. Not for casual perusal and critism by outsiders. (seems a little cult-like, but not entirely unreasonble)

If they are willing to discuss these issue in person, they obviously don't have anything to hide...they may simply not want a semi-permanent record in the bit bucket.

And I would have to question the seriousness of any student who can't take the time to drop in, talk to the instructors in person, try out a class on the mat, etc. If you can't do that once, what would make me think they could train for any reasonable length of time? But I think phone or letter would be fine. Hey, I'd even go for email...it's still internet, but it's to one person.

So, if they don't have a website, but they do post, does this count as an "internet presense"?

Personally I don't teach...so I have no reason to care if someone would like to know my rank. They can go with years of experience, mudansha / yudansha, who my teacher is, etc. Now, IF I taught, I would post my rank IF I had a website. But especially for non-teachers, I see no reason what so ever for the rank issue to be a problem. And the context of the original post was (I believe) to validate what someone says online...not to select a teacher.

All that said, I can think of one instance where I definately asked the rank question online...I'm sure some of you remember our dear Mr. Bruce B. I must admit...that interaction pretty much drove me to my limits. And I'm not proud of it.

Best,
Ron

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 09-18-2006 at 03:42 PM.

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 03:47 PM   #27
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Are you, perhaps, lying?
If you don't say what your rank is, what exactly can you be lying about?

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 04:03 PM   #28
mriehle
 
mriehle's Avatar
Dojo: New School Aikido
Location: Stockton, CA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 320
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
If you don't say what your rank is, what exactly can you be lying about?
Your knowledge of the subject. Claiming authority where you have none.

Really, I think it can be summed up like this:

Not volunteering your rank should not be considered significant in any way. Not volunteering information is often (though not always) a Good Policy, IMO. Sometimes the act of volunteering information can come across as the arrogant I-have-this-rank-so-you-must-listen-to-me sort of thing. It shouldn't, really, but sometimes it can.

Refusing to answer the question for something as basic as rank and/or qualifications seems evasive and raises questions that don't really need to be raised.

That being said, there are times when the question should be asked and times when it shouldn't. Really, the only time the question is warranted is when someone is claiming some sort of authority. In that case, it's valid to ask where they derive their claimed authority from. But simply challenging someone to be argumentative is at least as bad as the person who is evasive about answering such a question.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 04:03 PM   #29
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Dave Humm wrote:
I've been a member of this forum since 2001, I'm a member of two other MA related sites and I've yet to actually ask another member what their rank is in order to quantify their opinions with any more regard.
I have asked people how long they have trained, where and with whom. I haven't considered rank to be a big deal. One of the greatest martial artists I've ever known told me he was a sandan in judo. He was about 70 years old and had been training since 1918, as I understood the stats. I never saw anyone stand up against him. He made them all fly.

On the other hand, if someone is coming over with lots of big opinions that just don't ring right, and then you find out they've gotten all their knowledge from books, that has to influence your idea of what they say.

Best wishes.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 04:04 PM   #30
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Which brings up a good point...what rank IS St. Peter???
If I should ever meet him, I doubt I will remember to ask that.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 04:12 PM   #31
David Humm
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 269
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
If you don't say what your rank is, what exactly can you be lying about?

Best,
Ron
!!!!!!! EXACTLY !!!!!!!

I worked as a Prison Officer within Cat A (Maximum Security) Prisons, yet, I've never been asked to quantify those experiences with academic qualifications, just to add credibility to the perception of my statements. Indeed it was working in this environment which lead me to study aikido in the first place.

I've served in the armed forces (Both British Army and Royal Air Force) during domestic and foreign theatre of operations, I've never disclosed or indeed been asked my rank on discharge despite discussing aspects of my experiences relating to martial arts. Why ? Because I guess the people I communicated with have no conception of what rank means in relation to this service, it means little to them, my opinions however remained the same. Its just people's own perceptions of which they then try to apply to other people.

All in all I think we place tooo much emphasis on grade and what its supposed to represent. That is of course just my opinion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 04:12 PM   #32
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Dave Humm wrote:
Hi David, I always enjoy reading you posts mate..
Thanks, Dave. Same here.

Quote:
With regards to questioning someone else's grade from a fraudulent perspective and then being asked to disclose one's own grade. I don't see how that has any bearing on the question being posed to the suspected fraud, indeed I have seen this line of smoke-screening before where the Dai-soke-wannabie-ejjit 10th dan uses the time old tradition of "who are you to question me?... you're only a shodan (or whatever)"
I think we've all seen that at some time or other. But you can then say, "Well, I did earn it. I do have that much of a foundation and I know enough about the art to know which questions to ask and what the answers mean when I hear them."

Quote:
The reality of course is that credibility stems from factual data.
Yeah. The rank can mean very, very little. And it can come off like cutting cards. "Oh? You're hachidan? Well I am NIDAN!" Doesn't get you very far. And even if you try to make it more humble, as above, the lofty master can twist it around, so it does become pointless. And to me, rank is pointless, but as long as the dankai exists it will always factor in. It is a shame. The Chinese seem to get along fine without one.

Best to you,

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 04:21 PM   #33
David Humm
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 269
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
David Orange wrote:
..as long as the dankai exists it will always factor in.
The really daft thing is Dave, the people who criticised me for not disclosing my grade were pointed to sources on the internet where my grade is listed and, given the name and email address of my Shidoin for him to verify my grade to them directly. Neither of them followed that up to my knowledge.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 04:43 PM   #34
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Dave Humm wrote:
The really daft thing is Dave, the people who criticised me for not disclosing my grade were pointed to sources on the internet where my grade is listed and, given the name and email address of my Shidoin for him to verify my grade to them directly. Neither of them followed that up to my knowledge.
I guess if someone doesn't want to respect you, they just won't, no matter what.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 07:34 PM   #35
gdandscompserv
 
gdandscompserv's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,214
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Dave Humm wrote:
As far as I'm concerned what we do here on forums such as these isn't aikido, its discussion about aikido, we don't hold grades in 'discussion aikido' and we certainly don't need a yudansha grade to hold an opinion - or indeed express it.
I am in agreement with this. "Dicussion aikido" is very different from aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2006, 09:32 PM   #36
Peter Goldsbury
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,241
Japan
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Hello Dave,

I have just read through this thread.

I agree with your remarks in your first post about too much being made of rank in aikido, but I also agree that you were wrong not to disclose your own rank when asked. I agree with Ellis that by not doing so, you made a bigger deal than perhaps you intended to.

I also have some opinions about UK 8th dan aikidouka, especially those who claim (falsely) that these ranks are Aikikai ranks.

As for posting one's rank on the dojo website, I think the issue depends partly on the information culture in which one is placed.

The Aikikai lists all the ranks of those who instruct in the Hombu Dojo, even those who are not shihan. In the last few years the Aikikai has come to see the importance of the Internet as an essential component of the information culture here in Japan.

With my own dojo in Hiroshima, my own rank (& brief training history) and those of my instructor colleagues are posted clearly in English and Japanese. I think this is important especially for prospective Japanese students who are considering training here, (though, in fact, most of these students come because they have heard about the dojo by word of mouth).

With your own dojo, the fact that your chief instructor is Keith Hayward is enough for me, since I know him and used to train with him when I was in the UK. For others, who do not know him, the link with the UKA might be important. For those who have never heard of the UKA, however, not to list your rank might be seen as a problem.

Best wishes,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Kokusai Dojo,
Hiroshima,
Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 01:27 AM   #37
David Humm
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 269
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Hello Peter, always good to chat to you.

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
Hello Dave,

I have just read through this thread.

I agree with your remarks in your first post about too much being made of rank in aikido, but I also agree that you were wrong not to disclose your own rank when asked. I agree with Ellis that by not doing so, you made a bigger deal than perhaps you intended to.
And I'm tending to agree with you and others who've suggested the same. I guess I need to compromise a little on the issue of disclosure of grade in relation to internet discussions.
Quote:
I also have some opinions about UK 8th dan aikidouka, especially those who claim (falsely) that these ranks are Aikikai ranks.
I would like to read your thoughts on this subject but perhaps this is topic for another time and place.

..//..

Quote:
With your own dojo, the fact that your chief instructor is Keith Hayward is enough for me, since I know him and used to train with him when I was in the UK. For others, who do not know him, the link with the UKA might be important. For those who have never heard of the UKA, however, not to list your rank might be seen as a problem.
Like your good self most of the students who train with us have come to know about the dojo though word of mouth (and a little advertising on local press) Mr. Hayward is our instructor and thus his rank is the one which is IMO most important, although I may teach in the dojo he is after all the senior and I'm the junior.

All that said, this thread has been very interesting and given me several things to consider with regards to my own opinions on this subject, may I take this opportunity to thank everyone for their contributions.

Kind regards to all.

Last edited by David Humm : 09-19-2006 at 01:34 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 03:21 AM   #38
Bridge
Dojo: Slough Aikikai
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 130
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Just a lowly Aikikai 4th kyu here!

Just my opinion, but you don't have to say what grade you are on these forums and I don't think it necessary. After witnessing some of my fellow karateka from the same association as me posting up on a certain popular website, I have learnt that you can tell who the experienced ones are. They are generally the ones who are less sure of themselves and are more willing to discuss an idea openly.

You can also recognise the ones who don't really know that much as they are the ones being argumentative just for the sake of argument and it doesn't matter what grade they are.

In fact it's probably better not to say what your grade and association is, especially if you have a potentially embarassing opinion that you'd like to push. I may well be embarassing my Sensei as I type!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 03:34 AM   #39
Peter Goldsbury
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,241
Japan
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Bridget Chung wrote:
Just a lowly Aikikai 4th kyu here!

Just my opinion, but you don't have to say what grade you are on these forums and I don't think it necessary. After witnessing some of my fellow karateka from the same association as me posting up on a certain popular website, I have learnt that you can tell who the experienced ones are. They are generally the ones who are less sure of themselves and are more willing to discuss an idea openly.

You can also recognise the ones who don't really know that much as they are the ones being argumentative just for the sake of argument and it doesn't matter what grade they are.

In fact it's probably better not to say what your grade and association is, especially if you have a potentially embarassing opinion that you'd like to push. I may well be embarassing my Sensei as I type!
Hello,

If your teacher does not agree with your opinion here, well, all he/she has to do is to come on here and say so, or, alternatively, contact you privately. I agree that it is not necessary to give your rank or organization. However, the Internet being what it is, if you give your real name, it is relatively easy to find both. I think that in the UK aikido world, everybody knows who Dave Humm is. Even I do and I do not live there.

Best wishes,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Kokusai Dojo,
Hiroshima,
Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 05:03 AM   #40
David Humm
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 269
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
...However, the Internet being what it is, if you give your real name, it is relatively easy to find both. I think that in the UK aikido world, everybody knows who Dave Humm is. Even I do and I do not live there.
(LOL) The main reason why I'm fairly well known, in the UK at least, is because I've been very outspoken in the past about the state of some quarters of aikido in the UK. Its never been my intention to be "well known" for any particular reason however; I don't suffer liars particularly well and through the research I've done regarding British Aikido, I've presently encountered 6 (if my memory serves me correctly) who've laid claims to aikikai certification, trained with people such as Abbe Kenshiro and or Chiba Kazuo Sensei, when they actually haven't and, the obvious embellishment of grades up to and including hachidan, which, are fairly abundant amongst those who seem to want to "keep up with the Jones's"

Of course that's a bed I've made for myself and I'm quite able to live with whatever labels people within our community may want to stick on me as a result. I've spent most of my adult life in one uniform or another and maybe I'm a little too stuck in my ways to tolerate individuals who bullshit to satisfy their ego. Sometimes my non-diplomacy in such matters has rubbed a number of people up the wrong way, C'est la Vie. I guess I'll never be asked to work with the Governing Body

Anyway that's all another story, sorry to have digressed

Kind regards
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 07:01 AM   #41
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
I can come up with other reasons...for one:

They consider their rank an issue between themselves, their teacher, and their students. Not for casual perusal and critism by outsiders. (seems a little cult-like, but not entirely unreasonble)

If they are willing to discuss these issue in person, they obviously don't have anything to hide...they may simply not want a semi-permanent record in the bit bucket.
This last reason doesn't really fly. I don't want a record where someone could find my rank? Sounds like I have something to hide about my rank.

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
And I would have to question the seriousness of any student who can't take the time to drop in, talk to the instructors in person, try out a class on the mat, etc. If you can't do that once, what would make me think they could train for any reasonable length of time? But I think phone or letter would be fine. Hey, I'd even go for email...it's still internet, but it's to one person.
Who is to say I wouldn't do that, AFTER I establish they are a qualified instructor. See, I've been burned before.

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
So, if they don't have a website, but they do post, does this count as an "internet presense"?
If you are going to make comments on a subject, you should have no problem verifiying your credentals in said subject. Rank is one of those things that helps verify it.

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Personally I don't teach...so I have no reason to care if someone would like to know my rank. They can go with years of experience, mudansha / yudansha, who my teacher is, etc. Now, IF I taught, I would post my rank IF I had a website. But especially for non-teachers, I see no reason what so ever for the rank issue to be a problem. And the context of the original post was (I believe) to validate what someone says online...not to select a teacher.

All that said, I can think of one instance where I definately asked the rank question online...I'm sure some of you remember our dear Mr. Bruce B. I must admit...that interaction pretty much drove me to my limits. And I'm not proud of it.

Best,
Ron

I guess my point is that if you put yourself out there in any reguards you shouldn't be bothered if someone questions your authority on the subject. When I talk on programing forums, if someone asks how I learned my knowedge I tell them. I dont say, well I trained with professor X at blah college, but I'm not going to tell you my major. It's just silly and arrogant. It's like saying "I am above rank". I willing tell anyone who asks about my history and qualifications to talk about computer programming. Martial arts to me are the same thing.

I'm not saying we should be forced to post rank. I simply think it is ridiculous to refuse to give it.

Can anyone give me an answer about why they care if someone knows their rank? I've seen speculation on why, but I havn't seen anyone say "I dont give out my rank because of X". Is it the fear of being judged? Is it the fear of being inadequate? Is it the fear your rank is not valid?

There are some posts about a guy never being asked about his prison work or military rank. I think I would ask about those if a person was using them to qualify a statement or certify themselves as a teacher. If a guy said "I used to be special forces and we trained this way and this is how I would teach you." I would ask for proof he was special forces, and his qualifcations to teach this special forces training. Again, I've been burned before by liars.

Rank is like any other certification you can get. It is just a paper, it doesn't tell us anything, but at the same time it can be useful in establishing a background on a subject. If I had a linux+ certification. Does this mean I know more about linux then other uncertified admins? No, but it does mean I cared enough about presenting and proving my knowedge and improving others views on my employer to go get this certification. This reveals a lot about my character and background even if it doesn't qualify skill.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 07:41 AM   #42
David Humm
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 269
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
There are some posts about a guy never being asked about his prison work or military rank. I think I would ask about those if a person was using them to qualify a statement or certify themselves as a teacher. If a guy said "I used to be special forces and we trained this way and this is how I would teach you." I would ask for proof he was special forces, and his qualifcations to teach this special forces training. Again, I've been burned before by liars.
.. that would be me.

Army Service No. 24691069 RoD Class 1 Private
2nd Btn Light Infantry Regiment
Demobbed - Winchester

RAF Service No. L2647426 RoD Cpl.
2Sqn RAF Regiment (amongst several other sqns)
Demobbed - RAF Waddington

I enlisted just after I left full time education '82 and demobbed '96 but my military service has no bearing on my martial arts experience or ability to teach them. Unless you want to do rifle bayonet drills

The point I was making when I mentioned my previous occupations was, that no one has ever asked me to quantify from a credibility point of view, the things I was stating in relation to my military service. Indeed I've spent more time in the Prison Service employing active control and restraint on individuals than I ever did patrolling the Streets of Northern Ireland, again, no one has seen fit to ask me to quantify aspects on these experiences when they've been discussed in aiki related threads yet; my grade in aikido seems to be such an important thing to some people.

I'd just rather be judged on the legitimacy of what I write and, in the dojo, what I do; rather than be superficially judged on how many dan grades I might have.

Kind regards as always
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 08:11 AM   #43
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Nice post Don. But again, your post points to seeking a teacher, and verifiying their credentials. We've already agreed on that point.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 09:41 AM   #44
David Humm
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 269
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
Rank is like any other certification you can get. It is just a paper, it doesn't tell us anything, but at the same time it can be useful in establishing a background on a subject.
Superficially yes, but the problem is that one person's perception of another person's "background" can and often will be quite different based upon one's own standards and what they are measured against.

Unfortunately there's no single authority on the subject of aikido thus; one person's perception of a black-belt may well be seen as another person's kyu, the variables on this subject are so vast and often politically charged, that I do not believe that one should consider adding credibility to what someone might express because of the grade they hold.
Quote:
...If I had a linux+ certification. Does this mean I know more about linux then other uncertified admins? No, but it does mean I cared enough about presenting and proving my knowedge and improving others views on my employer to go get this certification. This reveals a lot about my character and background even if it doesn't qualify skill.
Again... only superficially because If I tell you I hold a godan in aikido, a bit of paper does not directly quantify experience, skill or credibility. Google "soke 10th dan" for examples.

I presently work for the second largest pharmaceutical manufacturer in the world and operate in an environment with several PhD Chemists working on different projects, I dunno about you but, my experience with these people are that they are highly intelligent, often creative thinking people, however; very few of them have common sense to spare. No disrespect intended to PhD holders reading this. Whilst I can't argue with them on the subject of pharmaceutical manufacture, I sometimes wonder how they get to work each day, credibility has many layers.

Remember those numbers I posted earlier in this thread, nearly 20 years continuous training but only holding nidan. Lets compare that to say half the time training but double the grade, which is the more credible ?

Actually neither and both, because one of the many variables involved may be how often a person has trained over their respective periods of time and, with whom they trained; grade is a weak benchmark when applied to a discussion forum. IMO all that matters are the opinions of those expressing them, it matters not if they are rokkyu or rokudan - as far as I'm concerned we're all equals in this world, of course what we do in it as human beings sets us apart, but that has little to do with status.


Kind regards
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 11:21 AM   #45
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 927
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Dave Humm wrote:

Remember those numbers I posted earlier in this thread, nearly 20 years continuous training but only holding nidan. Lets compare that to say half the time training but double the grade, which is the more credible ?
If you aware of where they'd trained however those two scenarios would give you a LOT of context to understand where they're coming from. On another forum for example, someone not too long ago was talking about their 30 some odd years of martial arts experience, but was failing to mention that they hadn't trained at a dojo for the last 10 of those years, or ever received a dan rank from anyone. Putting those two things together creates a very different spin on their comments than "my 30 years of martial arts experience." I received my shodan pretty quickly, but I trained seven days a week for several years and occasionally two times a day. But that was my only experience with budo. So knowing that would have offered a very good context for my beleifs and comments at that point. Again, I'm not saying that rank and time should be the *only* thing that determines the authority behind someone's posts, but they can factor into how ones comments are read. Remember that trainwreck Mark Tennenhouse over on AJ a while back? A lot of his early comments were in keeping with my own observations, but when his feet hit the mat (or was that his face, George? ) he really wasn't in a position to back up his claims.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 12:05 PM   #46
mriehle
 
mriehle's Avatar
Dojo: New School Aikido
Location: Stockton, CA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 320
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

It's important to remember that when you are trying to put a data point in perspective that it may not be correct to discount the data point altogether. It's a data point. There are probably others that matter, but that doesn't negate the value of that one data point.

Also: just because some people put more weight on a data point than it deserves doesn't mean everybody does.

Moreover: refusing to supply the data point can appear to mean that you place more weight on the value of that data point than you do or than it deserves.

This has been said many times, many ways in this same thread.

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 12:11 PM   #47
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Michael Riehle wrote:
It's important to remember that when you are trying to put a data point in perspective that it may not be correct to discount the data point altogether. It's a data point. There are probably others that matter, but that doesn't negate the value of that one data point.

Also: just because some people put more weight on a data point than it deserves doesn't mean everybody does.

Moreover: refusing to supply the data point can appear to mean that you place more weight on the value of that data point than you do or than it deserves.

This has been said many times, many ways in this same thread.

Quoted for truth.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 12:21 PM   #48
jonreading
 
jonreading's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido South (formerly Emory Aikikai)
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,153
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Writing is not about you, it about communicating with others. You know your rank and you don't believe it is a valuable piece of information, but others don't know your rank and they may believe your rank is a valuable piece of information. You're not writing for your own edification, to are writing to educate others.

The purpose of a website, or any written material, is to provide relevant content to the reader. Without the interaction of a question, you have to guess about what information a reader may be interested. Excluding content essentially says, "this information is not important." Good websites often provide a wealth of knowledge to the reader in a manner easy to navigate.

Post your rank, school of aikido and other information about your training and school. It's good etiquette to provide relevant background information for website readers. Let your readers decide if the content you publish is important or not.

Last edited by jonreading : 09-19-2006 at 12:22 PM. Reason: spellin'
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 03:47 PM   #49
David Humm
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 269
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote:
Post your rank, school of aikido and other information about your training and school. It's good etiquette to provide relevant background information for website readers. Let your readers decide if the content you publish is important or not.
Hi Jon,

Thanks for your input but, whilst I see the providence of your comments I think you've strayed wide of the point.

Firstly; I don't presume to educate anyone other than those students who attend my classes, I participate in forums such as these for the enjoyment of interacting with a much wider audience.

Whilst I do agree that resources such as Aikiweb and other MA sites are a means of expanding knowledge on a given subject, anyone placing too much emphasis on the legitimacy of OPINION expressed by strangers, is open to being conned. Unless of course you already know and trust the source.. But then the issue of rank for credibility wouldn't be an issue.

With regards to my specific details...

See:

www.eastcoastaikikai.co.uk Take a look at the instructors page, hover your mouse pointer over first two images of the bottom row instructors. Also note that I am not the most senior graded aikidoka in the club.

See:

www.teshinkai.co.uk Take a look at the instructors page, specifically the "Higashi Kaigan Dojo" entry. My details are likewise listed there.

See:

www.ukaonline.co.uk Specifically the entry for Lincolnshire, some of the information on this particular list of UKA dojo is out of date but then I have no control over that as I don't admin it.

You will see that I am not refusing to disclose my grades, lineage or instructor on websites where it has relevance to students or potential students of the dojo in which I teach/train.

I am however questioning if, to participate in forums such as these, we need to be using our 'grades' to provide a means of credibility.

Kind regards

Last edited by David Humm : 09-19-2006 at 03:59 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2006, 03:51 PM   #50
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Disclosure of information on the net

Important distinction, that...

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikibojitsu information? Jonathan Cole Weapons 3 12-18-2006 07:58 PM
Wanted for a Beginner: Information, Suggestions, ? Wayne General 22 10-10-2006 06:57 AM
Important Health Information Steven Humor 17 02-18-2005 10:07 AM
Aiki Expo 2005 Information AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 1 05-30-2004 12:17 PM
Wanted, information about Kiichi Hine erikmenzel General 0 02-12-2002 04:24 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:14 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate