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Old 08-23-2003, 12:49 PM   #1
Jorx
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Disgust "I Hate Aikido" Thread

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showth...hreadid=102884

How to deal with such kinds of things?

Ignore it? Be "above" it? Frankly, I personally am already a bit fed up with "ignoring" and "being above it all".

And a bit of it is sad and sore truth in those posts as well...

But now I shut up and let you do the talking. (Brave and trolly ones go and flame that forum as well... I'll be reading your posts with pleasure)
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Old 08-23-2003, 02:15 PM   #2
DaveO
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Why bother?

They can say whatever the hell they want; what do we care?

A Judo club uses the mats before we do; it's owned and operated by Wayne Erdman; 6th Dan. (Former coach, Candadian Olympic team.) Every one of them - and it's a big class - is respectful, friendly and mature in regards to other disciplines.

So; I don't give two pins what the children on that other forum say or think; it's entirely their loss in my experience. As for going onto that forum; it's an exercise in futility; I for one have no interest in getting into a wah-wah argument with these kids; it isn't one you can win. Let them step onto my mats, I'll answer that way.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 08-23-2003, 03:04 PM   #3
akiy
 
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As the saying goes, you can only change yourself -- not others...

-- Jun

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Old 08-23-2003, 05:01 PM   #4
ajbarron
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I just checked out the "I Hate Aikido" Thread". It was interetsing to me to read these "fighters" perspective on Aikido. When people ask me to show them a "move" I either pretend to turn and run, or I like to show them either "Aikido arm wrestling" ( you give with the person as they are pushing you ) or the "Unbendable Arm" which really stuns them until you show them how to do it and then they are even more amazed at how little effort it takes.

Why am I in Aikido?...because it suits my stage of life , family, beliefs and values etc. Their's ( the I Hate Aikido crowd)reflects this in them. Perhaps they with see other perspectives in the future.
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Old 08-23-2003, 06:16 PM   #5
L. Camejo
 
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That was a very funny thread.

Had some truth to it though.

Many self proclaimed "fighters" simply cannot understand how Aikido works until they get bounced off the mat a bit. Tho I'd admit that there are Aikidoka as well who are in the same category .

It's kinda hard for these guys to admit that after years of honing one's physical strength and fighting skills that it may be possible to be defeated by someone who does not break a sweat in the proces.

If one were to enter into that forum to "defend aikido" they would be doing exactly what could cause defeat in reality - being enticed to engage the enemy in his domain under his rules.

I think if one becomes infused by those statements they should ask themselves why - if their words are not true then it should not bother us.

Most judoka/jujutsuka/mma folks I have met have been very respectful folks. Those who were not either stayed very far and muttered comments or stepped on the mat and understood the helpless feeling of being hit by the earth.

It's all good. Either way we learn something.

Arigato

L.C.

Last edited by L. Camejo : 08-23-2003 at 06:20 PM.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 08-23-2003, 08:55 PM   #6
PhilJ
 
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What interests me is the responses I'm seeing -- these folks really got to some of us, didn't they? Hey, they got to me too, just because we all have this thing called "ego".

As Andrew suggests, their context for martial arts is tournament fighting, and that's fine. My context is improving my work relationships, handling my mind better, and making myself more efficient in a "one-cut to finish it" type of action, no matter what it is.

Everyone is right. "Ishn't that veird?"

*Phil

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Old 08-23-2003, 10:52 PM   #7
Chris Raywood
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Jorgen:

I read your post, and must admit the thread bothered me a little too. But if it makes you feel any better, I'd like to make the following points.

1) The threads on the forum in general seem (at least to me) quite juvenile.

2) The respondents on the third and fourth pages of the particular thread seem a little more respectful, and do reprimand the original post.

3) Go to sherdog forum, click "other", then click "the archives." There is another aikido bashing thread there too. Now read it, and tell me if it isn't the biggest crock of manure you've ever seen. The guy is lying through his teeth, and you'll get a good feeling for what I mean by juvenille.

4) You are not in a competitive martial art, and I'm afraid that there is little you can do to impress certain people that are in competitive arts.

5) In my opinion, the art that you, and I are learning is street effective with techniques that have been distilled from historically proven methods. I know this to be true, since the techniques I am now learning are variations of techniques I have used in the previous arts that I have trained in, AND I KNOW THEY WORK!

Anyway, its 1:00 a.m. where I am, and I'm dead tired. I hope I'm thinking straight right now, and haven't offended anyone. I guess I had to say what I said. Take care.

Chris
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Old 08-24-2003, 06:41 AM   #8
aikilouis
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This thread is a good test for our humility and sense of humour.

This said, those participating in the aforementioned thread rudicule themselves more than anything else.

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Old 08-24-2003, 08:06 AM   #9
PhilJ
 
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No matter what we think of them, we need to let them be. 100 years from now, no one will care about what they say, or what we say.

*Phil

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Old 08-24-2003, 08:38 AM   #10
A. Palumbo
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I took a quick look at the thread, and decided that posting would really be a waste of time. Too bad they're so ignorant.

Another thing I noticed was a huge lack of respect. I have never heard another martial art badmouthed in my aikido classes, actually quite the opposite.

I don't know what may be taught in judo, but I would hope that they don't actively denigrate other martial arts.

I can't change another person's behavior, I can only change how I react to them, and in this case, they're better ignored, I guess.
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Old 08-24-2003, 10:26 AM   #11
Joseph Huebner
 
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I took a few minutes to read the thread. Like water off a duck's back. Train on.

Joseph

If you think you can, you will. If you think you won't, you're right.
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Old 08-24-2003, 11:07 AM   #12
opherdonchin
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I enjoyed reading the thread. I may have even learned some things. If being street effective was more important to me, or if I had more time in my life, I'd be very curious to try BJJ or judo.

I wonder about the logic that says, "I study martial art X and beat someone studying martial art Y, so martial art X is superior to Y." It seems to me that this overlooks many of the factors that play into success in a martial conflict.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 08-24-2003, 12:30 PM   #13
Irony
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What I liked was the post that insinuated that O'Sensei never proved himself because he didn't participate in the Pride/UFC tournaments.

I'll just get out my time machine...

Chris Pasley
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Old 08-24-2003, 01:24 PM   #14
aiki_what
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"I hate aikido" thread

I think the only honorable thing to do is to challenge them to a death match.
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Old 08-24-2003, 02:50 PM   #15
aikidoc
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Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Sturgeon's Law: "Ninety percent of everything is crap."

I found the thread somewhat juvenile in the beginning. I've worked out with judoka in the past. They had trouble throwing me since I used extension and they could not enter. Then they'd try to sweep my feet and I'd just extend and life up my foot. I let them throw me and then reach up and tug their gi and toss them over (usually off balance do to a sacrifice throw).

Does that make them bad or me good. Neither. These were not street situations and stylistic differences explain the dynamics. I think the guys on the site have a bit too much testosterone and too little experience with martial arts.
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Old 08-24-2003, 03:50 PM   #16
jaxonbrown
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i read the thread and can see those guys points of view. "too cooperative", "uke's throw themselves". these are the same things i thought when i first started. I still doubt parts of my training but I know Aikido works, just that _my_ aikido doesnt work yet. One of these days I'm going to amaze myself. I just know it.
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Old 08-24-2003, 04:36 PM   #17
SeiserL
 
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IMHO, listen to criticism, evaluate your own training, let the criticism go.

Everyone's got an opinion. It is very common to defend your art by knocking others.

From what I've seen, MMA can beat most people in a sparring match. They are tough fighters. If all you want is one-on-one go-to-the-ground, its great. It has its limitations just like any other art.

Now get back to the mat.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 08-24-2003, 09:10 PM   #18
sanosuke
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they should remember that even Jigoro Kano sensei said that Aikido is his ideal budo. Anyway, just ignore it, their perception and expectation towards martial art is somewhat different with us.
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Old 08-24-2003, 09:14 PM   #19
sanosuke
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Oh yeah, i ust read in that thread that Aikido is potentially dangerous because it builds you false confidence. Now that's interesting. What do you guys saying about this?
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Old 08-24-2003, 10:42 PM   #20
Chocolateuke
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I think any martial art can be potentionally self destructive in combat because of ego. Bruce lee was not a great MA because of the system he studied, The man trained 6 hours a day. Ushiba would have never achived his level of mastery without hardwork and training. Granted they could whoop my but any day of the week, but not because of their style, but because of their skill and training.

I doubt a lot of those kids on that fourm has ever been in a "real" fight. I haven't I have used Aikido tech before once or twice, but not in life and death duels. The person who wins in Combat is the person who can control their actions/thoughts/adrenelin the best. Sure MA training may upp the odds, but so does a baseball bat.

Training is a tool for YOUR self improvement and hopefully improve yourself to the point you dont need to get angery and fight or do something stupid to get into a fight. Remember dont judge anybody, Ushiba's students say that Ushiba never classified people in catagories of, "that guy is bad I wont help him, or that guy is good I will hang out with him." Ushiba had a lot of compassion for human kind, that is why he created Aikido.

Dallas Adolphsen
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Old 08-24-2003, 11:52 PM   #21
shihonage
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The very first post in the thread is written by a person who is angered with an Aikidoka's behavior.

And that person is right. The Aikidoka in question clearly had more ego problems (derived from false self-confidence which was being ruined by this Judo guy) than the average Judo guy.

If he joined a Judo class then he should behave like he's expected in a Judo class, and not try to make everyone else behave like they're in his Aikido class.

He should accept "losing" in Judo, learn and get on with it instead of whining all the time.

There's a lot of Aikido practitioners with this kind of attitude.

There are even blackbelts (who wouldn't be able to pass their shodan test now if their life depended on it) who always say "Go easy whoa whoa" when one tries to give a sincere attack, give cheating insincere attacks as uke, stop technique 100% in it's tracks, with a fake smile on their face (because hey in an Aikido class you better smile !), in order to "show how to better do it", and when you start to pull it off, they will let go and roll "dignifiedly" by themselves, giving you no feeling of connection or anything whatsoever.

This is the kind of person who would behave that way in a Judo class.

So yes a lot of the complaints in that "I hate Aikido" thread are actually true.

Last edited by shihonage : 08-25-2003 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 08-25-2003, 04:24 AM   #22
bogglefreak20
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As I am merely a beginner in my thoughts might seem a bit (or more than a bit) naive to all of you. But still, the most obvious impression after reading the thread on Sherdog site is that the words express a lot of violence and that they are ment to insult someone, namely aikidoka.

A couple of rhetorical questions to contemplate upon: Why does one never see such hateful threads on this site? Could the peaceful nature of Aikido be the reason?

My impression of Ki Aikido after a year's training is that violence is exactly what we are trying to avoid. Some of you might disagree, however, the way of peace, serenity, least agressive action etc. remains the main goal in my personal training.

Reading the insults and other rude or otherwise overpotent words made this distinction between Ki Aikido and other martial arts even more obvious to me. Not that I mean anything bad about other martial arts or those that train them. To each his own.

And perhaps a final thought - I simply cannot think too highly of a site where a colour of a belt labeled under the username is a means to define the "weight" of someone's words. If you have something to say, say it and let the words express your mental state, feelings, character or spiritual level on their own. If nothing smart comes out, then simply take it as a challenge and train harder Hiding behind a coloured belt is in my opinion pure vanity. Again, no offense ment!

Beatus Qui Venit In Nomine Domini!
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Old 08-25-2003, 04:56 AM   #23
paw
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Just to clear something up......
Quote:
Why does one never see such hateful threads on this site?
Such threads are here. They tend not to last long, but they do show up from time to time.
Quote:
Reading the insults and other rude or otherwise overpotent words made this distinction between Ki Aikido and other martial arts even more obvious to me.
Um.... That's an internet forum with it's own culture. It's likely that most of the people there wouldn't use the same language if speaking to someone face to face and people are disciplined on sherdog's when they cross the boundaries of that forum's guidelines.
Quote:
And perhaps a final thought - I simply cannot think too highly of a site where a colour of a belt labeled under the username is a means to define the "weight" of someone's words.
The "belt" indicates how long someone has been a member of the forum, not rank in any specific martial art/martial style.

Best advice has come from Lynn:

Now get back to the mat.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 08-25-2003, 08:58 AM   #24
John Boswell
 
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One thing to consider

I think that another thing to consider when it comes to post like the one linked above is "What are they calling an Aikidoka?"

I've studied Aikido about a year. I'm fifth kyu, I understand but need a lot of work on the basics. Does that make me an "Aikidoka?" I use it, sure. I know the philosophy and principles behind Aikido. But if I were to step on the mat with someone who uses Judo, I'd probably get tossed around like a rag doll and if that person is a jerk, their impression of Aikido is that its a joke!

Aikido is only as impressive, dynamic, workable, useful... as the person using it. No more and no less.

Let all the macho jerks of the world keep their opinions. Personally, I'd rather they all think that way... it'll keep them off guard for when they meet a TRUE Aikidoka who will simply just own them.

2 cents.

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Old 08-25-2003, 09:16 AM   #25
bob_stra
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Re: One thing to consider

Well, after an indepth reading (ie: 1st sentance of of 1st post)...

Some thoughts -

Quote:

-"I hate Aikido and anyone who does it"

Meh.

I have a pet theory as to why MMA'ers hate aikidoka, but...also Meh.

Sounds like a communication problem / different expectations / not respecting the other guy kinda thing. Maybe a little primadonna-ism (Medical term, I swear)

Also, ignorance is bliss.

To sum up -

(1) Meh

(2) Communication problem between the two

(3) ignorance is bliss

PS: I just realized I answered a related thread over at R.M.A. On the topic of injuring your partners. -

"I hate this shit. Hate it with a passion. Not only is it dangerous, but its arrogant. I ain't your chew toy, fuckwit - I've got a family to feed and a job to go to tommorow"


Last edited by bob_stra : 08-25-2003 at 09:20 AM.
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