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Old 08-09-2006, 08:17 AM   #1
markwalsh
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
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Question How aiki are we?

How aiki are our interactions on Aiki Web?

This is coming out of another thread that in which I asked how AikiWeb compares to other non aikido discussion sites. Favorably seems to be the response so far - which is reassuring.

Take your own definition of aiki, my request is we don't get bogged down in dictionaries. My concept would include blending, non-violence and entering as core, but that's just me. Oh, and I'm not going to be naming names as another ego flamewar is not what's needed.

Another angle would be - what posting guidelines do you use (if any) to make your interactions more harmonious here?

Jun - I'm assuming these kind of meta debates are cool with you - if not please say.

With a fat handful of
Mark
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Old 08-09-2006, 12:47 PM   #2
Ron Tisdale
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Re: How aiki are we?

Posting Guidline Number One:

If you say something, pretend the other person has mount on you...if you still want to say it, go ahead.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-09-2006, 01:12 PM   #3
Don_Modesto
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Re: How aiki are we?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Posting Guidline Number One:

If you say something, pretend the other person has mount on you...if you still want to say it, go ahead.

Best,
Ron
So...aiki = terror?

Last edited by Don_Modesto : 08-09-2006 at 01:20 PM.

Don J. Modesto
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Old 08-09-2006, 01:18 PM   #4
Don_Modesto
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Re: How aiki are we?

AIKI, harmony of spirit...

We're not talking about harmony as the accomodation of disparate needs and aspirations in a tacitly democratic framework.

We're talking about the nail which sticks up getting hammered.

That's Jpn harmony, anyway. Certainly it was in 1942 when aikido was named.

The harmony of foxes keeping the population of rabbits down. The rabbits don't like it much, but then, they're not defining the term. Tough luck for them.

Aiki is invoked in too cavalier a manner to dun people when they stick up for themselves in a salty manner. If the term harmony has been used to cover the Jpn marauding across China in the 30's, I don't think we have any worries about our sundry mix 'em ups here qualifying.

Don J. Modesto
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Old 08-09-2006, 01:35 PM   #5
Ron Tisdale
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Re: How aiki are we?

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote:
So...aiki = terror?
Some times...I'm thinking of a certain Friendship Demo right now...


Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-09-2006, 05:45 PM   #6
SeiserL
 
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Re: How aiki are we?

Enter and blend with the direction of the thread.

Do not try to always redirect in the same direction.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 08-09-2006, 08:53 PM   #7
giriasis
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Re: How aiki are we?

I guess it all depends on how you define "aiki."


Anne Marie Giri
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Old 08-10-2006, 07:26 AM   #8
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: How aiki are we?

Interesting question.

I find a lot of times I don't respond to threads because of how my thoughts have been labeled or dismissed in the past. So my Aiki approach is to let the people that seem to dominating dominate because in the whole scope of reality so much really does not matter.

Other times I do respond and my skin has become thicker because I am learning not take things personally....which is another Aiki approach.


Mary
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Old 08-10-2006, 09:25 AM   #9
markwalsh
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Re: How aiki are we?

Thanks Mary,

Point heard and appreciated. Soemtimes he who shouts loudest gets to speak and I don't value that either - also as you hint at - is it worth it? Does it matter? What do I get out of this?

Mark

PS - If anyone gets their dictionary out I'm going to scream like a banshee =- though more from fructration than anything else.
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Old 08-10-2006, 11:31 AM   #10
giriasis
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Re: How aiki are we?

I just find it frustrating that everything we have to do just because we practice aikido needs to be "aiki" regardless of what the definition is. It seems to me to be a cop-out when people don't like seeing disagreements occur and are unwilling to negotiate the differences. "That's not aiki." "You're not aiki." Etc. I just think it doesn't matter whether we're "aiki" whatever that heck that is, but just that we're respectful to one another.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 08-10-2006, 11:49 AM   #11
Ron Tisdale
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Re: How aiki are we?

Totally agree, Anne Marie...oops, sorry, that ryhmes!

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
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Old 08-10-2006, 12:27 PM   #12
markwalsh
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Re: How aiki are we?

To me aiki doessn't mean a pushover, any more than femine means weak.

Often as you imply Anne Marie, it's used in the aikido world to mean "I dont like what you're doing.", or "lets be nice." Screw that I agree.

To me aiki isn't a moral matter so it's not about should - it's just an effective option.
Like all words the meaning is loose and fluid but I think we have enough of a consensus as to what it means so that we can have a conversation involving the word, though probably not enough of one to set anything in stone.

BIg aiki-love hugs to all my aiki-nicey friends,
Maikirk
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Old 08-10-2006, 07:12 PM   #13
giriasis
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Re: How aiki are we?

Well being "aiki" is about being assertive neither passive nor aggressive. Oftentimes, in order to keep from being pushed over you have to take your ground and stand up. Which will surprise people especially if you are generally a soft person. And, when you do that they criticize you for standing your ground usually with a "how dare you" type attitude. When in fact, that are just trying to manipulate you into a position of submission. There are times whether on the mat or on these boards I find it's necessary to take a strong stand. If I think someone is full of it, I will say so even if it means that a majority of posters will disagree with me. But I'm also with Mary here that you need to choose your battles. You pick the ones that matter most and stand up. And you don't back down. That to me is the irimi in aikido. There are times when its just necessary to let something go by like the endless debates on the effectiveness of aikido. That to me is a tenkan.

At work today is a good example of irimi and redirect. One of my co-workers made some really rude comments about all "those people" (implying Muslims, Arabs etc.) and immigration policies.(In context this was referencing the new terror alert.) I just spoke up and said, "I'm sorry, but I disagree, but I'm not going to debate a political issue like this at work." She responded, "But those people...." I entered again and stated, "I strongly disagree with you and I do not want to debate this kind of political issue at work." And left it at that. I didn't just ignore her or just give a tokken ditto response to appease her opinion, but I didn't engage in the debate either but I did let it be known I disagreed. I took control and ended it there. No one got upset and others in the room were probably relieved as over half our office are immigrants or 1st generation children of immigrants. That, to me is not only aiki but aikido.

But yeah, I really don't think it should be used as a pacifier to avoid a debate or an argument. "Aiki" is assertion. It's not running away from a problem and it's not going in aggressively fighting any sort of conflict either. It's asserting yourself and maintaining your dignity while at the same time bringing a conclusion to the situation. "Aiki" is about entering a conflict with a calm mind despite how heated it might get.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:13 AM   #14
dps
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Re: How aiki are we?

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
Well being "aiki" is about being assertive neither passive nor aggressive. Oftentimes, in order to keep from being pushed over you have to take your ground and stand up. Which will surprise people especially if you are generally a soft person. And, when you do that they criticize you for standing your ground usually with a "how dare you" type attitude. When in fact, that are just trying to manipulate you into a position of submission. There are times whether on the mat or on these boards I find it's necessary to take a strong stand. If I think someone is full of it, I will say so even if it means that a majority of posters will disagree with me. But I'm also with Mary here that you need to choose your battles. You pick the ones that matter most and stand up. And you don't back down. That to me is the irimi in aikido. There are times when its just necessary to let something go by like the endless debates on the effectiveness of aikido. That to me is a tenkan.

At work today is a good example of irimi and redirect. One of my co-workers made some really rude comments about all "those people" (implying Muslims, Arabs etc.) and immigration policies.(In context this was referencing the new terror alert.) I just spoke up and said, "I'm sorry, but I disagree, but I'm not going to debate a political issue like this at work." She responded, "But those people...." I entered again and stated, "I strongly disagree with you and I do not want to debate this kind of political issue at work." And left it at that. I didn't just ignore her or just give a tokken ditto response to appease her opinion, but I didn't engage in the debate either but I did let it be known I disagreed. I took control and ended it there. No one got upset and others in the room were probably relieved as over half our office are immigrants or 1st generation children of immigrants. That, to me is not only aiki but aikido.

But yeah, I really don't think it should be used as a pacifier to avoid a debate or an argument. "Aiki" is assertion. It's not running away from a problem and it's not going in aggressively fighting any sort of conflict either. It's asserting yourself and maintaining your dignity while at the same time bringing a conclusion to the situation. "Aiki" is about entering a conflict with a calm mind despite how heated it might get.
If everyone practiced Aikido as you do, there would be the harmony that O'Sensei wanted.
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:21 AM   #15
giriasis
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Re: How aiki are we?

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote:
If everyone practiced Aikido as you do, there would be the harmony that O'Sensei wanted.
Well, I've never mentioned any of my "non-aiki" moments. I definently have more of those than "aiki" ones. I'm no saint.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:32 AM   #16
dps
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Re: How aiki are we?

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
Well, I've never mentioned any of my "non-aiki" moments. I definently have more of those than "aiki" ones. I'm no saint.
If you needed to be a saint to practice Aikido there would be no one practicing. Maybe Aikido helps us with our unsaintly abilities.
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:36 AM   #17
dps
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Re: How aiki are we?

Maybe the harmony happpens because when we practice Aikido seriously, our time is spent on becoming saints and there is no time left to be unharmonious.
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Old 08-13-2006, 02:02 AM   #18
Neil Mick
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Re: How aiki are we?

Quote:
Mark Walsh wrote:
PS - If anyone gets their dictionary out I'm going to scream like a banshee
I think I might just have to yank out a dictionary, just to hear what your "banshee-scream" sounds like.
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Old 08-13-2006, 09:43 AM   #19
Mark Freeman
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Re: How aiki are we?

Quote:
Neil Mick wrote:
I think I might just have to yank out a dictionary, just to hear what your "banshee-scream" sounds like.
That'll certainly get that troublesome tune out of your head Neil....how does it go now? dm dm dm dmdmdm...here's a little song I wrote....

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 08-31-2006, 07:12 AM   #20
Nick Simpson
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Re: How aiki are we?

The way I see it is that 'doing' aikido is a path to perfection, its a long journey and you'll never fully achieve it but it's all about becoming a better person. As has been said, Im no saint but Im definately a better person for being involved in aikido. Theres still plenty about me I dislike and hope to change, thats why I continue with 'aiki'

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 08-31-2006, 10:39 AM   #21
James Davis
 
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Re: How aiki are we?

Quote:
Mark Walsh wrote:
Another angle would be - what posting guidelines do you use (if any) to make your interactions more harmonious here?

Mark
If I'm posting an opinion or a personal experience, I try to make that apparent; It's at least an attempt to keep arguments at a minimum.

If trying to differentiate, I use the term "I". If trying to harmonize, I'll tend to use the term "we". I try to use the word "you" as little as possible. It's sometimes like a figurative pointed finger, and it just makes for bad writing (according to my composition professor).

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