Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-30-2006, 08:25 AM   #1
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 641
Australia
Offline
Buses and trains - effects on balance

*cross posted from judoinfo. Figured you all might be interested in discussing this too?*


I'm wondering if anyone has noticed any interesting effects on their balance from riding on buses and trains?

Specifically, I mean without collapsing against walls or rails, nor holding onto handrails for great lengths of time. Keeping the feet light / yielding and the pelvis alive.

I've recently had some interesting experiences from this, so am curious to know if anyone else has experimented with this as a means of force redirection, moving from the centre etc.

Any comments?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 08:44 AM   #2
odudog
Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
Location: VA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 384
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

I try to maintain my balance from time to time when I ride the subway here in the DC area. I really have to shift my hips in the opposite direction of the subway in an attempt to not to move my feet. I first saw this being done when I was visiting Tokyo. I was amazed on how many riders didn't have to hold on to anything, read a newspaper or magazine, and still stay perfectly still. They don't shift their hips or anything. I'm trying to emulate them as best I can.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 08:57 AM   #3
crbateman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
crbateman's Avatar
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,452
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

Like everything else, it's a matter of practice. Aikido will give you a better set of tools, but only time spent on a train will perfect the technique.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 08:58 AM   #4
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 641
Australia
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

One of the things I've felt of late is that by using certain organizations, I can become entirely immobile and yet not stiff. The bus can be whipping around at whatever speed it wants, and yet I can often feel the force go into my back leg, then shoot up-wards. If I were to hold an overhead handle, I often find myself pusing it up at a 45 degree angle. That is to say, it seems to push itself up, as if the leg force is going up into the arm.

I thought that was kind of odd and kooky, and I know some of you study this kind of thing so...

I'm just curious if anyone has used this environment as a less opportunistic way to train force redirection? Has it been useful to you?

(Surfing might be another analogue but I've never expereinced that and thus am more interested in buses and trains
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 09:16 AM   #5
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

I use it when I'm on a train or a bus, but that's not all that often. I've heard many people mention it, over the years. It helps train you to let the legs do all the reaction/absorption. The only problem is, IMO, that the force affects your entire body at once; it's not the same as a single attacking force coming in from an opponent. So it's not a perfect training tool in that sense.

Best.

Mike
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 11:41 AM   #6
Trish Greene
Dojo: Aikido-Kajukenbo Self Defense Center
Location: Boise
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 98
United_States
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

Since I don't ride trains or buses on a regular bases, I first noticed it this year when I was river rafting.
I was changing my balance to ride with the rapids and the raft instead of bracing against it.
I didn't fall out once!!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 01:09 PM   #7
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 976
United_States
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich wrote:
*cross posted from judoinfo. Figured you all might be interested in discussing this too?*


I'm wondering if anyone has noticed any interesting effects on their balance from riding on buses and trains?

Specifically, I mean without collapsing against walls or rails, nor holding onto handrails for great lengths of time. Keeping the feet light / yielding and the pelvis alive.

I've recently had some interesting experiences from this, so am curious to know if anyone else has experimented with this as a means of force redirection, moving from the centre etc.

Any comments?

I sometimes wonder if some of the stances adapted by karateka in the 20th century --- specifically the front stance and back stance favored by Shotokan --- came about as a way to try and stay stable on a train or the bus. I caught myself holding myself that way on subway trains or busses (when I go to Ottawa, New York, Toronto, or Washington, I use public transporation more than at home), and it's a thought that crossed my mind. It's porbably wrong, but it has crossed my mind.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 02:47 PM   #8
Roman Kremianski
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
Location: Toronto, Canada
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 404
Canada
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

I take a combination of train, bus and subway everyday to Aikido practice. It's interesting practice, but I've been at it for a year and a half and still hadn't gotten that much better, though it depends. The subway/train is the easiest as it only goes forward and backword, but the bus and it's sharp turns are hard. Especially crowded buses.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 04:47 PM   #9
Neal Earhart
 
Neal Earhart's Avatar
Dojo: New York Aikikai / Aikido of Westchester
Location: New York City
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 98
United_States
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote:
I first saw this being done when I was visiting Tokyo. I was amazed on how many riders didn't have to hold on to anything, read a newspaper or magazine, and still stay perfectly still. They don't shift their hips or anything.
Exactly the same here in NYC. People ride the subway without holding onto or leaning on anything. It just comes from years of riding the subway system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 07:19 PM   #10
statisticool
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 534
United_States
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

Hmm, cool post! It is one of those things I think about if I am the only one doing it or not.

In Portland (OR), on the Max train on some of them they are jointed and have a rotating disk in the middle you can stand on. It is challenhingto stand on this disk section during a turn becuse you have the trains' movement, plus the movement of this disk.

I think it can help, just like balancing on one leg for 30 sec the first day, 1 min the next day, 2 min the next day, etc. can help. ESPECIALLY, since we try to make martial arts a healthy habit and part of daily life, and most people take the bus/train very often.


Justin

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 07:06 AM   #11
Michael Douglas
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 404
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

When I was a teenager I thought it was a great way to train my balance for better Aikido.
Now I see it as a harmless bit of fun, useful skill to have when standing unsupported in a wobbly train or bus but fairly useless everywhere else.
I don't think it helped me to resist attacks on my balance during training.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 08:52 AM   #12
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

Nice to see so many people using public transport, so much better for the environment as well as a fun way to work on balance. SUV's just don't cut it as training tools.

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 09:04 AM   #13
statisticool
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 534
United_States
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

Speaking of transportation and aikido, I do find the concept of merging on the highway, or letting (helping) others merge in, to be good practice.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 09:55 AM   #14
Mike Hamer
 
Mike Hamer's Avatar
Dojo: Shinki Rengo, Mt. Pleasant MI
Location: Alma, MI
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 244
United_States
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

Woah, someone else does this to? I often have to take Dial-a-Ride to work, and those buses are really bumpy.

To speak ill of anything is against the nature of Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2006, 10:42 PM   #15
John Matsushima
 
John Matsushima's Avatar
Location: Miura, Japan
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 226
United_States
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

I have tried this on the train. I found that it helps when I keep my knees loose and shift my weight naturally from side to side instead of leaning. Sometimes, the train does take some hard curves and I am forced to move. When I tried to hard to stand still, I ended up being stiff legged and staggering to the next spot (like on your first day of Aikido practice). However, when I just relaxed and went with the movement, it was much smoother to just slide my foot into a new position.

Two additional notes: I found increased balanced while listening to my headphones! My legs seemed to have more feeling, were looser and easier to move and shift weight. I felt like a boxer that was bouncing from one foot to the next (all my boxing training comes from watching HBO). Finally, after I had a few beers and THEN got on the train, I was even better! (But if you have too many, you won't be able to stand up). Maybe drunken Aiki style works best.

-John Matsushima

My blog on Japanese culture
http://onecorneroftheplanetinjapan.blogspot.jp/
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2006, 11:40 PM   #16
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
Re: Buses and trains - effects on balance

It probably is only of limited use in training the balance for Aikido or Judo, in the same category as wobble boards, balance balls, and the like. While these methods may be good exercise in a general sense, the skill of balancing with the feet planted for a prolonged period is fundamentally different from the way you manage balance when throwing or trying not to be thrown. When you are trying to keep your balance in a martial art, there is nothing magic about keeping your feet planted in the same place, and you pay no special attention to forcing yourself to keep them there. If you need to, you simply take a step. In fact, how, when, and where you choose to step is an integral part of the balancing skill.

Practicing extensively on a wobbly surface with the artificial restriction of not being able to move the feet might even detract from your real-world balancing skills if you did it so much that you began to confuse the two situations. You could find yourself defaulting to not moving the feet in the latter, which almost certainly is a worse method of keeping your balance than the former, no matter how good you are at it. Unless you need to be able to fight while surfing or skateboarding, use such training methods sparingly.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:27 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate