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Old 08-14-2001, 05:34 PM   #126
lt-rentaroo
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 237
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Ummm, I was only joking around. Just bored with paperwork at work


It's just with all those smiley faces and sunglass faces, well nevermind

It's time to go home and prepare for class.

LOUIS A. SHARPE, JR.
 
Old 08-14-2001, 05:48 PM   #127
Mike Collins
Location: San Jose
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6 pages of continuously deteriorating nonsense and general doo doo in response to a clear example of trolling by someones snotnosed kid.

Aikido Journal bulletin board is filled with stuff about people being rude to each other, and how it should stop.

EBudo has some of the same stuff.

Otherwise there is stuff about who has what rank, what organization has the real stuff, etcetera.

There has just gotta be something worth discussion, other than this crap.

Or maybe all discussion devolves into this, just as TV goes to the lowest common denominator. Maybe people just talk to hear our heads roar?
 
Old 08-14-2001, 06:35 PM   #128
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mikey
There has just gotta be something worth discussion, other than this crap.
If I may ask, what do you have in mind?

By the way, I noticed you all moved. How is the new dojo?
 
Old 08-14-2001, 10:13 PM   #129
Jim23
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 482
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mikey
6 pages of continuously deteriorating nonsense and general doo doo in response to a clear example of trolling by someones snotnosed kid.

Aikido Journal bulletin board is filled with stuff about people being rude to each other, and how it should stop.

EBudo has some of the same stuff.

Otherwise there is stuff about who has what rank, what organization has the real stuff, etcetera.

There has just gotta be something worth discussion, other than this crap.

Or maybe all discussion devolves into this, just as TV goes to the lowest common denominator. Maybe people just talk to hear our heads roar?
Yes, you are right. But, do you realize that your post is the second to last in this continuously deteriorating nonsensical thread? (That'll soon change, I'm sure.)

Now, what does that say about your post? Pretty low on the food chain, isn't it?

Relax. This brought out the best and worst of the folks here.

It's a bit like real life, really. Someone makes a negative comment towards your beliefs - and your true character comes out (meaning everyone's). What?? I'm an aikidoka ... I challenge you, come and fight me ... you should have seen what other forums are like, they wouldn't put up with this rubbish ... right.

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
 
Old 08-15-2001, 10:09 AM   #130
Mike Collins
Location: San Jose
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Oh, I know. Hell, I took part in this thread of dissipation.

As to what I had in mind, well I don't really care, just so its not another rehash of who's the toughest hombre on the planet, or who can kick Steven Seagals butt, or why Iwama is superior to Ki Society yada yada yada.

New dojo, well it's clean. It's hot. It's not in Japantown, and I miss the old, dirty, funky space. Funny part is, I was one of the biggest whiners about the old place and the funk. Ya just can't please some folks.

How about this for a topic:

What would the perfect dojo look and feel like?
 
Old 08-15-2001, 10:43 AM   #131
Magma
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Wow... how did we miss this?

Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees, I just finished reading this entire thread and I can't believe this statement went unchallenged:

Quote:
Originally posted by Paul van Leeuwe
IF you really cannot avoid battle, if you can't run away, if you can't talk your way out of it, if your wallet isn't enough for him and he wants to see blood, if you don't have a gun to scare him away, whatever, then my second rule is (the first one is avoiding conflict): DON'T SPARE THE ENEMY! When you have him in a lock, break something. You have done your duty if you have tried to avoid conflict. Locks are for training and they become fractures on the street. Just in case he might escape. Don't say I'd train better to apply the lock correct. I just don't take risks.

The best atemi might be (I usually wear heavy army-boots) to break his knee-disc. Okay he will never walk again as well as he used to do. So? He should have left me alone, and when he did not I have given him countless chances to run away. We are taught at ju jitsu to apply devastating techniques if somebody physically attacks you or grabs you. In self-defense only one thing counts: getting as few injuries as possible. The rest is nothing. The opponent has no rights and no value. Use a gun if you have one. Use a stick. Challenge him (hey if you drop your stick I will drop mine), then keep your stick and make sure he won't walk for half an hour.
Wow. Paul, I know you don't practice aikido, but this is beyond human decency. Imagine being in court because you hurt someone in this way.

Prosecutor: So after you asked him for the gun, did he give it to you?
Paul: No, he did not.
Pros: I see. So what did you do next?
Paul: I asked him again. Three more times.
Pros: And then, when he didn't give you the gun?
Paul: I managed to wrestle him to the ground, put him into a locking hold and take the gun from him.
Pros: So at this point, with him securely locked and you in control of the gun, was he hurt?
Paul: I don't think so.
Pros: What did you do next?
Paul: I pistol whipped him into unconsciousness.
Pros: Why? Was there someone else around you that was attacking you? Maybe a friend of his?
Paul: No.
Pros: I see.
Paul: At least he wasn't going to be walking for a while.

And I don't buy that you were talking about meeting an attack with an appropriate response. That is a dynamic balance changing from moment to moment... you have your attacker in a lock, he is no longer a threat to you. If he resists, apply the lock a bit more tightly. If he still resists, apply the lock a bit more tightly. But that is not what you were talking about. Challenge him to put down his stick and then keep yours? Then beat on him until you're sure that he won't walk for a half hour? If he puts his stick down the threat level has already gone down.

"The opponent has no rights and no value," is an egotistical cop-out.

I feel sorry for you that your training and/or your instructors haven't taught you this, but you are not only learning self-defense techniques, you should be learning responsibility, too. Responsibility to take care of not only yourself, but your neighbors... including that guy you just disarmed who is looking at you thinking that after losing his job, getting called from two or three creditors that morning, hearing that his kid in the hospital took a turn for the worse -- after all of that, how could things get any worse?

Well, I guess you're about to show him how, aren't you?

ps, I think the same is true in our treatment of Stuart: we know we have him "pinned" because we who are still training and posting see the benefit in it that he is missing. If he insists on continuing to be an ass, then as CBR and Greg (among others) have offered, the opportunity for Stuart to see/feel aikido may help...

Tim
It's a sad irony: In U's satori, he forgot every technique he ever knew; since then, generations of doka have spent their whole careers trying to remember.
 
Old 08-15-2001, 11:07 AM   #132
sceptoor
Dojo: http://ctr.usf.edu/aikido/
Location: Tampa, Fl
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Magma

That was a great post, and you're right, I was surprised no one said anything about it, but I think maybe people were just trying to stick with the original subject. That post was quite appalling though and I'm glad someone responded to it. It was well said.

C. Martin

 
Old 08-15-2001, 12:34 PM   #133
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mikey
Oh, I know. Hell, I took part in this thread of dissipation.

As to what I had in mind, well I don't really care, just so its not another rehash of who's the toughest hombre on the planet, or who can kick Steven Seagals butt, or why Iwama is superior to Ki Society yada yada yada.
I hear ya but it's really interesting how certain threads come up time and time again. Sometimes I wonder if this practice really has any more depth than ping pong. Actually, I really don't believe it does.

Quote:
New dojo, well it's clean. It's hot. It's not in Japantown, and I miss the old, dirty, funky space. Funny part is, I was one of the biggest whiners about the old place and the funk. Ya just can't please some folks.
You must be getting spoiled with that teaching lineup. Jeez, a 6th and a 7th. Then again, it's the Bay Area, it's not like you can't drive 20 minutes in any direction and find at least a 5th dan. Still I think you are going to get spoiled.
 
Old 08-15-2001, 01:10 PM   #134
Fausto
Dojo: Bu Iku Kai Mexico
Location: Queretaro Mexico
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 81
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Angry STOP CRAP

Maybe in the aikido class that you saw they pretend to throw and hold the other guy, but in REAL aikido you don't pretend!!!!!!!

If you go to rome email me calefas683bdp@hotmail.com and i'll take you to a REAL aikido class and after the training you'll have a totally differnt point of view!!!!! and besides you can't take any conclusions after watching just 1 one class, and i won't take out my shirt cuz it's not necessary!.

Arrivederci
 
Old 08-15-2001, 01:40 PM   #135
Carlos
Dojo: Yamato
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Re: Is Aikido weak?

Quote:
IF you really cannot avoid battle, if you can't run away, if you can't talk your way out of it, if your wallet isn't enough for him and he wants to see blood, if you don't have a gun to scare him away, whatever, then my second rule is (the first one is avoiding conflict): DON'T SPARE THE ENEMY! When you have him in a lock, break something. You have done your duty if you have tried to avoid conflict. Locks are for training and they become fractures on the street. Just in case he might escape. Don't say I'd train better to apply the lock correct. I just don't take risks.
Paul,

I understand you opinion about violence. Sometimes there is no other option, but I don't buy that.

Listen to your words, read them, more than once and think about it. Yes, is very male to broke other guy, beat him without mercy, he is the enemy, he is nothing!!!

You should see "karate kid", the movie. The karate instrutor tell his students the same words, and his students act like beasts.

In Brazil we have the same problems with jiu jitsu people who think they are super men. They talk the same arguments, if this happen, if that....blablabla, I crush him!!!!

In general they go to bar, night club even movies (six or more...never alone). One of the guys "create" that kind of situation and all of them beat the "fool". I repeat "all of them".

If someone really tried to hurt you and you react with the same attitude, it's ok. But if you crush his skull with a hammer because he tried to stole you wallet, well, read the law, you are nothing more than murder.

I like jiu jitsu and I respect the practitioners, only the serious. The danger is the bad instructors who build bad students.
The instruction that enable you to defend yourseld it's very good, without hesitation or fear. But you don't need to smash the aggressor to stop the fight.

Carlos

http://aikido.paginainicial.com.br
 
Old 08-15-2001, 05:29 PM   #136
jeremy_l
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Hehehe

That's the point!

Whenever an aikido technique is done perfectly, it doesn't look strong!

Please do not underestimate a very good aikidoka. Because that's one mistake a martial artist must never make.
 
Old 08-15-2001, 11:55 PM   #137
Chocolateuke
Dojo: Muhu Dojo
Location: Middle of nowhere in California 14 miles from Buellton
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I have a question why is male engergy or male people in general veiwed as distructive and female engergy or people veiwed as giving and buliding ??

Dallas Adolphsen
 
Old 08-16-2001, 12:53 AM   #138
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
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I like your version a lot better than male as positive, female as negative. Another view is male as active and female as passive, undoubtedly tied to their roles in producing a family (although anyone who views the female part of that as passive has never been in a delivery room

Males are usually more aggressive (and often destructive) compared to females because they have more muscle mass: they can be. Females tend to be more nurturing and peace seeking, often because they need to be. Some folks think centuries of evolution may have selected out this behavior: the males who could beat up everyone else got to pass on their genes, and the more nurturing females were better at raising the offspring and hence passing on their genes. But since evolution may fly in the face of the teachings of the Great Pumpkin, I'm not going to go any further on that

Still, not everyone follows the average, and in fact the ancient Egyptians god of war and destruction was actually a lion-headed goddess, Sekmet.
 
Old 08-16-2001, 03:24 AM   #139
mariko nakamura
Dojo: Dobunkan Japan
Location: Toyama Japan
Join Date: Aug 2001
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aikido doesn`t work

Reading these words gives me mixed emotions. I don`t really know what to think. In our dojo, we have more yudansha than not. Just about everybody is a black belt. And still our sensai tells us that it will take us more than ten years to master the basics. I think that he is right. I`ve never done anything else in my life that required so much of me. When I lived in the states I took Karate for a long time. The first time I went to the dojo and told sensei that I wanted to learn Aikido, he asked me if I have trained with any other budo before and I said Yes, I`m a karate expert. I can even break boards. Then he laughed and told me to hit him as hard as I hit the boards. So I hit him, or at least tried( for about 5 minutes). Finally I found the opening I was looking for and gave him my shot. The next thing I remember I was spinning uncontrolably trying to find my feet. When I thought my balance was returning, the next thing that happened, I was flying high in the air. Then I fell.
As I was laying on the floor trying to recover, sensei looked down at me with this glowing smile and said to me, "I guess you never learned how to fall".

Mick
 
Old 08-16-2001, 10:51 AM   #140
George S. Ledyard
 
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Idiocy

Quote:
Originally posted by Chocolateuke
hey folks!! this might be way off subject of biting girlfriends and wether aikido sucks or not, but I have a questions for you all. one writer in black belt mag said that a person should only train a art for 6 mounts then move on to a different martail art. what do you think about this? the writer said in his defence that it takes an average of 6 mounths to learn the bacis and that is all you really need then you can move on and have a little of everything. again what do you all think.

for me i have been practacing aikido for 4 years and i still have trouble with the basics now and agian so i think it is bogus to train for 6 mounths in one art then go on to another.
Yes, and the guy who does this ends up being a Green belt in everything. How wonderful to be equally incompetent in multiple arts. This is just a dumb idea.

Take one art and get into it on a deep level. Everything after that will come more easily and you will have a context into which you fit the information you get from new arts. Look at how many of the great martial artisits have judo as the foundation of their training. If you develop a solid ability in judo everything else can be relatively easily added. I think the same can be said of Aikido if it is done well. I have had occasion to train in a number of other arts and I found that the lessons I had learned in aikido made evrything elsea lot easier. (The trouble is that everything gets Aikido-ized because that is my main focus. It's hard to keep the arts really separate when you have one that is so dominent).

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
 
Old 08-16-2001, 11:11 AM   #141
Brian Vickery
Dojo: Aiki-Buken Aikido
Location: Gilbert, Arizona
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Re: aikido is weak

Quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
I watched an aikido class and I must say that aikido doesnt work one bit. its very weak and fake.

Its very sloopy, and weak. I dont get it? Is this really a martial art or a joke? One punch or kick, and you guys are gone. Sloppy women and men doing it. What a joke.

Take karate or kikboxing for some real effective fighting.

When this message was first posted I thought it would just be ignored by everyone in here! ...that it wasn't worth dignifying it with a response!

...but boy was I wrong!!! ...140 responses later it's still going strong! And with some very interesting points of view, and some great twists & turns!

Go figure?!?!

Brian Vickery

"The highest level of technique to achieve is that of having NO technique!"
 
Old 08-16-2001, 03:37 PM   #142
Chuck.Gordon
Location: Frederick, MD
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Re: aikido is weak

Quote:
Originally posted by Stuart
I watched an aikido class and I must say that aikido doesnt work one bit. its very weak and fake.

Its very sloopy, and weak. I dont get it? Is this really a martial art or a joke? One punch or kick, and you guys are gone. Sloppy women and men doing it. What a joke.

Take karate or kikboxing for some real effective fighting.
Yes, yes, of course, you're right, aikido is a sham, the only REAL martial art is SINANJU, the ur-budo from which all others are descendend and compared to which all others are mere weak reflections as in a mirror clouded by the breath of a pregnant yak.

Oh, wait, sorry. That's something else entirely.

Never mind.

Aikido. Yes, I see you invested lots of time into finding out about it and now you know all you need to know. Good. Your mission is complete. Well done! You have uncovered the secret!

Now, go home and let all these poor deluded souls revel in our weakness and sloopiness (sic).

Chuck Gordon

 
Old 08-16-2001, 05:46 PM   #143
Mike Collins
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Chuck!!!!!!!!!

You must never ever ever again mention Sinanju, the mother of all arts, or the 418th Grandmaster, Chiun. If you insist on this behavior, I will have to have a word with my friend, the Emperor Smith.

That was the single most enlightened post on this entire thread. I love all reference to "The Destroyer". Used to eat those books up 4 in a weekend when I was a kid of about 20 (when I could see through the alcohol fog).
 
Old 08-16-2001, 07:18 PM   #144
mj
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Me too.... Murder Ward, Assassins' Play-off etc
But Mikey... wasn't his name nuich?

 
Old 08-16-2001, 07:40 PM   #145
Mike Collins
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It was for one or two books, right? I forget the deal with that. There may/should be one or several I missed
 
Old 08-16-2001, 07:53 PM   #146
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Ahhhhhhh Those were the days.

Maybe it was THOSE books that got me into Aikido

 
Old 08-24-2001, 02:02 AM   #147
Mares
Location: Australia
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That was interesting to read. I haven't read all the responses but i get the feeling this bloke is either haveing a lend of us, or he is just ignorant. But I must say that I am glad the he is not a Student of Aikido becasue I dont' believe Aikido has a place for people like him. Needless to say Aikido is the study and practise of Bujitsu, Budo and Bushin. And it is through the practise of all three that we achieve "happiness". He is obviously missing two of the 3 components. He may be tough, and he undoubtedly has an ego inversely proportionate to the size of his penis, but he will never achieve true happiness through sheer violence and aggression. If he truly belive his elbows are tough then he obviously hasn't felt a sankyo from my sensei or any other 5th dan or higher.
 
Old 05-19-2004, 09:35 PM   #148
Tharis
Dojo: Chicago Aikikai
Location: Chicago, IL
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Re: aikido is weak

See? Conflict generated creativity! Aikido!



I know this thread has been dead for several years, but upon finding it, I just couldn't resist

Yours in ukemi,

Thomas
 
Old 05-20-2004, 03:38 AM   #149
domidude
Dojo: Kobayashi Dojos, Hungary
Location: Hungary
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Re: aikido is weak

i started aikido 6 month ago, for no other reason but the dojo being close and the exercise being just good for my age and weight...
also about 8 month ago i was attacked but did not think to go and start learning self defense as a result of the attack because i could have not done anything anyway to prevent a deep cut to my face with a glass... so, the way it happened: i was talking to a girl at a small quiet party, suddenly a jelaous ex boyfriend came up to me from the side (just slighly in my view) and smashed his glass in my face. i had tp throw all my clothes and even my shoes out because i could not wash the blood out.. so what did i do? i told the guy that it was crasy, to stop acting like a fool and spoiling the party, to call fo ambulance, and that no i won't get in a fight just because i respect the hostess, and her home, and no i will not call the police, i am happy it is over and hope that he realized how stupid he was, than i went to hospital... he wanted me to punch him telling me because he feels so bad about what he had done... i said he was stupid again and that i will not punch him
when i told the story about the big scar on my face to my aikido instructor he said what i did and how i behaved was real aikido before i even started going to aikido class...
...and the girls like my face now better than before....

"whatever you do: do it with love" (whosaidthat?)
 
Old 05-20-2004, 08:34 AM   #150
GLWeeks
Dojo: Aikido Society of Memphis
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Re: aikido is weak

 

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