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Old 08-08-2001, 09:31 AM   #51
AikidoSteve
Dojo: Foothills Aikido, Evergreen, Colorado
Location: Evergreen, Colorado, USA
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
Do you think O-sensei would have been sweet and nice to Stuart? Or do you think he would have broken both his arms?...
Not posting too seriously


No, I don't believe O-sensei would have let words provoke him to physical violence.

It seems there are better ways to handle Stuart than by the" way of the fist".

In addition, I have to agree with Paul. Aikido is a part of a larger picture. Even O-sensei was familiar with "other" arts as well.

Yours in Aikihood

Steve Nelson
Confront the enemy with the point of your sword against his face.
-Miyamoto Musashi, "A Book of Five Rings"
 
Old 08-08-2001, 09:44 AM   #52
Patrik Eng
Dojo: Billingens Aikido
Location: Sweden
Join Date: Jul 2001
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I wonder: do you guys think that aikido is the best self-defense art (it will leave you with the fewest injuries if somebody attacks you and you can't avoid it) IF trained well enough in? Nobody feels the lacks of punches and kicks Stuart brawls about? You all think it's not an art which works in theory but not in practice (like taekwondo, karate and in many caes kung fu)?

I do not think that Aikido is the best self-defense art. Many techniques are very complex, but on the other hand, why not use the simple techniques you know and are good at? Aikido is, however, a superb art when it comes to "shaping the mind" and giving you a good attitude. This is very important, as it is common for people with low selfesteem, or too much of the same for that matter, to get into trouble.

I do not feel the lack of punches and kicks. Aikido isn't about beating up people (selfdefense or not), if used for selfdefense the goal is NOT to injure the attacker. How do you kick/punch someone hard enogh so that he doesn't keep coming, and yet soft enough so that he doesn't sustain injury?

Aikido works both in theory and in practise, it is, however, harder to make it work than others martial arts.

The good thing about Aikido is that if you're good enough to acctually use Aikido for selfdefence, you may defeat an attacker without having to injure him. The bad thing is that it takes time to get good enough.

At my current ability, I'd probably use my Taekwon-do techniques if I ended up in a selfdefense situation. I would however prefer to be better at Aikido, since I don't want people to get hurt (me or them) if a situation ever should happen.

Are there any other martial art that teaches techniques to defeat an attacker without having to injure them? Don't tell me Krav Maga, since they give the ol' groin what it can take, and them some...

Regards,
Patrik Eng

Come to the edge - No, we'll fall!
Come to the edge - No, we're afraid!
Come to the edge - And they came and he pushed them and they flew
 
Old 08-08-2001, 10:12 AM   #53
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Thanks, Vera, but I'm afraid I 'rule' only in a very little country with one inhabitant
glad to hear you're having fun with your ukemi.
 
Old 08-08-2001, 10:21 AM   #54
Nick
Dojo: Aikido of Greater Atlanta
Location: Atlanta, GA
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as others have posted... if someone doesn't like aikido, fine. I'll talk to them about it and respect their views. But how much gall does it take to watch one class (maybe), and come onto the internet and tell us how horrible our art is, and why we should take this this this because we are weak and sloppy.... I mean, I like having a good debate concerning aikido, however if I'm going to show respect to someone while speaking with them, I'd prefer a reply that's something more than "I cuud bash u in with one punch and kick cuz aikido is weak and sloopy mwhahahah"...

Nick

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
 
Old 08-08-2001, 10:34 AM   #55
Chocolateuke
Dojo: Muhu Dojo
Location: Middle of nowhere in California 14 miles from Buellton
Join Date: Jun 2000
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well, I was going to post at the christianity thred but then I found this last night and then my computer freaked and crashed. serouisly.. listen up kickboxing man. I cant spell so your gonna have to bare with me ( is that the right bare?? or do you spell it differently??) anyhow.. if you live in a big city and you still go to school ask some of your friends if they take aikido and ask what they think of the art. or you could go to co-workers and ask them and maybe you could ask them to demonstrate a lock of some kind or you could go to a dojo and be in class ( you might be able to go as far as asking if you could be thrown by the sensi.) the point is our words dont tell a binky what aikido is like nor what kickboxing is like. i have seen kick boxing in mags and tv and to me it dosnt look appeling but hey that is just me we all are different .



so,. would that be mumbo jumbo or i am just waging my tail to much!

Dallas Adolphsen
 
Old 08-08-2001, 10:58 AM   #56
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I watched an aikido class and I must say that aikido doesnt work one bit. its very weak and fake.

Which school did you visit, specifically?

Take karate or kikboxing for some real effective fighting.

Have you done either? How long? Where are you located geographically?
 
Old 08-08-2001, 11:38 AM   #57
Anne
Dojo: Kiel University/VfL Fosite Helgoland
Location: Helgoland, Germany
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Re: Stuart has a point definately!

[quote]Originally posted by Paul van Leeuwe
I am a ju jitsu practitioner, and I do taekwondo just for fun and because only two lessons in ju jitsu are offered a week, and sporting just twice I don't consider enough, as I want to lose some weight. Just some words about my background.

I think one of the problems is that many people don't know the difference between sport and self defence.
sport: lots of rules like no punches in Judo or no attacks towards the legs in TKD

self defence: every attack allowed and practiced

I train at the sports center of my universtity. All kinds of MAs are offered and since training is almost free, many people have a look at other arts. So we have Jiu Jitsu, Karate and TaeKwonDo people around for training sometimes. On the other hand, you can watch or train in their classes, too.
Maybe it's a question of styles but what I see when watching Jiu Jitsu, Karate or TKD is as follows:
Jiu Jitsu (had some training myself): lots of blocking, very undynamic, needs a lot of strenght for all those pulls and forcing a partner through a technique. Techniques start when the partner has already a firm hold on oneself. Aikido starts on a stage when the attacker hasn't got a hold of you already which is a real advantage and one of the reasons why it doesn't require much strenght.

Karate: People practice kata most of the time. Partner practice means blocking a punch etc and a reacting strike etc. Very static,too, because the technique ended there, the attacker didn't try to escape or react.

TKD: Just a little story I overheard in a bus. Two men were sitting in front of me and one complained that he was doing TKD for several years now but was beaten up badly by a boy because that kid just wouldn't stand there and let himself get kicked at but always turned sidewards and punched the man...

One of my friends is a first kyu in karate and he stayed with aikido because he admitted that a karateka wouldn't have a chance.

I was once callenged by a friend who did WT for years. It was just for fun so nobody got hurt but he didn't get past his initial punches or kicks because I always took him down with irimi or tenkan techniques.

What if a kickboxer would fight an aikidoka? I think the kickboxer would definately win if he knew how to battle an aikidoka. Kick low, and I wonder how aikidoka's can blend with his technique. If there are other ways within aikido to get around it then I'm just misinformed about aikido. Ju jitsu allows us to 'attack' in a battle, aikido uses only atemi? Ju jitsu teaches us how to take advantage of weak stances of the opponent, but can an aikidoka (using only aikido) kick somebody in the groin if he spreads his legs?

First, it doesn't matter if the attack is a kick or a punch if you do a correct irimi in this case. By the way, iriminage applied to a leg is very painful and dangerous if you don't know how to fall from this one.
Secondly, if someone spreads his legs, it's usually a position he can't attack from quickly. So as an aikidoka, I don't have to kick.

I wonder: do you guys think that aikido is the best self-defense art (it will leave you with the fewest injuries if somebody attacks you and you can't avoid it) IF trained well enough in? Nobody feels the lacks of punches and kicks Stuart brawls about? You all think it's not an art which works in theory but not in practice (like taekwondo, karate and in many caes kung fu)?

For me, yes, I think aikido will leave me with the fewest injuries, because we learn how to fall savely, too, which other MAs don't teach.
We do train with kicks and punches and with most techniques the kind of attack doesn't matter.

Anne

Last edited by Anne : 08-08-2001 at 11:42 AM.

"You have to do difficult things to grow." (Shoji Nishio Sensei)
 
Old 08-08-2001, 12:08 PM   #58
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
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If you don't all SHUT UP right now... I will CRUSH all of you with my superior JUDO!
Your arts are all obsolete. You've wasted your lives!!!
You are FOOLS because you are not...ME.
I alone know all the answers.
I alone can beat everyone.
You foolish people.
BE QUIET!!!!
I AM TALKING SO BE QUIEEEET!!!
Only MY opinion counts, and if you DARE disagree with me. WELL.....
I will just keep REPEATING MYSELF!
So DO AS I SAY!

 
Old 08-08-2001, 12:33 PM   #59
nikonl
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 130
China
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Thumbs down

maybe a lamer's class should suit you....hehe
 
Old 08-08-2001, 12:54 PM   #60
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
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I'm not a lamer... I'm a lammer
http://www.claymorenation.com/
Mark aka Dexter(TCN)
(My other hobby)
(obsession)

 
Old 08-08-2001, 02:29 PM   #61
Manuel Cortez
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 3
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Lightbulb Karate-do vs. Aikido

A COMPARISON OF TWO TRADITIONAL, YET SEEMINGLY DIFFERENT, JAPANESE STYLES

http://www.shotokai.cl/ensayos/62_eg_.html
 
Old 08-08-2001, 05:11 PM   #62
NYFE Man
Dojo: Bond Street Dojo
Location: New York
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 23
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Re: Stuart has a point definately!

Quote:
Originally posted by Paul van Leeuwe
I am a ju jitsu practitioner, and I do taekwondo just for fun and because only two lessons in ju jitsu are offered a week, and sporting just twice I don't consider enough, as I want to lose some weight. Just some words about my background.

I think aikido is in the least too complex for all but very well-trained aikidokas to use against a well-trained fighter.

(snip, snip, snip)
One day I will visit aikido lessons, just to see what it is. I will also visit kung fu. I wonder if ju jitsu is the ultimate art for me, but I think it is. It's not as limited as taekwondo is, but allows almost everything.

(more snipping)
OK, I was respecting some of the points made in the above post right up until that last little paragraph. Why is it that the most vocal detractors of Aikido on this forum never seem to actually DO Aikido (not counting you, Jim23 )?

Personally, I have been doing Aikido for about 7 months now. I would probably (read: absolutely) get my butt kicked in a "real fight". I am probably one of those "sloppy" people. But I'm getting better.

It's MY path. If you don't like it, find your own. But please, don't walk next to me and complain!

Al Foote III
 
Old 08-08-2001, 05:25 PM   #63
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
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You will all Bow To ME!
(Sorry, but I have to break the deja vu I get reading these posts...again and again and again...)
Didn't O-Sensei insist that you had to have at least a Dan (or more) in another art before he accepted you as a trainee. (Disciple)
Why was that?
Or is that a new (sensible) thread?
And another thing... why do these forums keep changing my spacing and paragraph structure, now that IS annoying. Whereas all this bickering is just irritating.
Do you really care if people find fault with what you do?
If you do, it's going to be a long, sad life.
If you feel that you must defend yourself against even the most peurile verbal attacks...
Now I'm talking too much, who did I get that from?

Last edited by mj : 08-08-2001 at 05:33 PM.

 
Old 08-08-2001, 06:04 PM   #64
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
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me. me me me me me. definately me. but please remember, I rule
...to be you there needs to me more macho, to be Jim there needs to be more macho and a reference to another art that is more macho. just plain wordy is me.
 
Old 08-08-2001, 06:07 PM   #65
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
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Wow.
I NEVER thought you would spot that ca!

I confess and apologise. Friends?

 
Old 08-08-2001, 06:16 PM   #66
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
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How could I bear a grudge against someone who expands my vocabulary?
 
Old 08-08-2001, 06:26 PM   #67
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Thanks.
Because it was you, and you did catch me out.
Damn it!
Jim23... Get her!!!
I'm done for.
You better have a good profile CA, because I'm checking it all the time now
Peace

 
Old 08-08-2001, 06:29 PM   #68
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by ca
me. me me me me me. definately me. but please remember, I rule
...to be you there needs to me more macho, to be Jim there needs to be more macho and a reference to another art that is more macho. just plain wordy is me.
Very funny. Hehehe. Giggle and snigger.

 
Old 08-08-2001, 06:31 PM   #69
Jim23
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 482
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Hey guys!

I really like aikido and don't train in anything else but aikido!! (although that Shotokai site was a little too interesting - and they don't compete beyond in-dojo training and consider themselves a DO not a sport).

Mark, I'm really impressed with your vocabulary (peurile?), you speak really *cough* good.

Al, that post was like scrambled eggs in my view. I'm still not sure what he likes or was saying, he should have taken a more *cough* seriatim approach to his post.

Ca, I'm really just a self-critical fool who's rarely unhappy, but never satisfied. It just bothers me when people are absolutely sure they are right, until they change their mind, that is.

BTW, you two have the same smile.

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
 
Old 08-08-2001, 06:35 PM   #70
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
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puerile

 
Old 08-08-2001, 06:56 PM   #71
Jim23
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 482
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Damn, you're good!

Why is it that everyone here loves these annoying threads?

Look at the responses.

Anyway, I've been to your dentist. What a smile.

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
 
Old 08-08-2001, 07:08 PM   #72
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 915
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mj, you had me at 'antithetical'...
and Jim, mj and I have the same smile because we are really.....ta da, brother and sister (recognised by our similar small case initials)...could it be that you...ominous music in background...might also be related? or worse yet, a clone?
just try to find me you guys
 
Old 08-08-2001, 07:28 PM   #73
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
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I think that music is leitmotif.
Jim...answer my mail dammit.
Why do we answer these mails? (Fix our spelling mistakes?)
EGO.
But also, we are trying our hardest
And I make such a fool of myself trying
Better be worth it in twenty years (30, 40, 50)

 
Old 08-08-2001, 10:09 PM   #74
Jim23
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by ca
(recognised by our similar small case initials)
Are you saying that mj has small case initials?

Actually, it's lower case, to be technically accurate ... but who gives a flying ... hoot?

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
 
Old 08-08-2001, 10:28 PM   #75
guest1234
Join Date: Jun 2000
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...I may not be smart, but I'm not much to look at, either
 

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