Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-27-2004, 11:41 AM   #1
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
Location: Fremont, CA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 248
United_States
Offline
Female uke

Hi guys,

I'm pretty new in aikido and today was my first time having female uke. That was pretty difficult. I don't have any emotional problem of training with female, but I found out that I was very tense performing technique with her. Even when I try to abstract and think of my uke as a partner regardless of the sex, at the moment of contact I was instinctively trying not to hurt her that was causing me to make mistakes and prevented me from relaxing, learning and having fun.
My question is: is that feeling temporary and how can I overcome it?

Thanks.

P.S. She is a nice person, but I don't have any strong feelings. I'm pretty sure that would happen with any female unless she is very strong and I'm sure I can't hurt her.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 12:02 PM   #2
Jeff Stallard
Dojo: Circle of Harmony / Columbus, Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 23
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

We have a responsibility not to give our dojo uke more than they can handle. If you think you're not accurately evaluating how much she can handle, ask her. This applies to everyone, not just women.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 12:49 PM   #3
MadMyndi
Dojo: Pacific Coast Aikido Club
Location: Crescent City, CA
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

I've found that when my partner does the technique correctly, without trying to muscle their way through it, I won't get hurt, no matter how hard I go down. The problems only arise when someone does the technique incorrectly, and instead of stopping, tries to use force to compensate. As long as you're doing the technique correctly, your partner should be okay, irregardless of gender.

Also, in my experience, it doesn't do me any good to work with someone who's afraid of hurting me. If I don't experience the technique, not necessarily to the point of crippling pain, I have a very hard time learning. When I can't handle the discomfort, if I'm having a sensitive night, or a person does use muscle time and again, I will speak up and I will choose not to work a technique, or request gentler techniques, or whatever it takes for me to practice safely.

Just concentrate on the technique, and trust your partner to know their limits. As Mr. Stallard said, you can always ask what those limits are.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 01:23 PM   #4
BLangille
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 33
Offline
Re: Female uke

Have you ever practiced with a female Yudansha? Have her throw you around for a while and it will knock those worries out of your head.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 02:14 PM   #5
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
Location: Fremont, CA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 248
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

Quote:
Brian Langille wrote:
Have you ever practiced with a female Yudansha? Have her throw you around for a while and it will knock those worries out of your head.
Well, she is pretty close to become one and her throws are pretty knocking But I guess this is some psychological barrier.
Thanks for advices. I'll try to trust my uke more next time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 02:45 PM   #6
Mary Eastland
 
Mary Eastland's Avatar
Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,198
Online
Re: Female uke

Maybe you should be more concerned that she does not hurt you. ;o)
Mir
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 02:57 PM   #7
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
Location: Fremont, CA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 248
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote:
Maybe you should be more concerned that she does not hurt you. ;o)
Mir
4 years of practicing full contact karate in a country with no laws did not crush me, so I think I'll survive...
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 03:01 PM   #8
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
Location: Fremont, CA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 248
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

Besides she is very experienced unlike me...
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 04:02 PM   #9
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,934
Offline
Re: Female uke

Hi, Suren. Just keep training; I suspect this will resolve itself for you over time.
I remember at one dojo I trained at, a very nice kohei/young man from another country, who would do a standing bow literally every time we would change role, go to attack, etc. I finally said, "you know, you don't have to bow quite so often" and he blushed just a bit and smiled and said "you know, I'm really not used to treating a lady like this!"
We both laughed heartily, and I had a soft spot for his candor ever since!

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 05:18 PM   #10
skyetide
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 27
Offline
Re: Female uke

Quote:
Marguerite Nightingale wrote:
Also, in my experience, it doesn't do me any good to work with someone who's afraid of hurting me. If I don't experience the technique, not necessarily to the point of crippling pain, I have a very hard time learning.
I would echo what Marguerite has said. I noticed that some of the young men at my dojo do not give me good energy. It is difficult for me to practice or learn a technique when my partner is holding back too much. I think you have to judge your uke not on gender but on what their bodies and minds can take. If I am paired with someone the whole night who isn't really "there" working with me I feel sort of cheated of a workout.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 07:36 PM   #11
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
Location: Fremont, CA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 248
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

Thanks again for you advices.

I realize that such a behavior is not good for both parties and I'll try to overcome that problem.

Also consider the fact that I'm a beginner, so it's difficult for me to "judge my uke not on gender but on what their bodies and minds can take". I wish I could, but I'm afraid I'm not enough experienced with Aikido techniques to do that correctly. Therefore I'll have to rely on my uke's abilities and knowledge.

Anyway, I think that's a matter of time and I'll learn more about my and other's abilities and how to adjust to particular person.
Thanks a lot.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 08:38 PM   #12
Troy
 
Troy's Avatar
Dojo: Yellow Springs Aikido
Location: Fairborn, Oh
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 50
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

I had the same problem in the beginning (been in Aikido for almost 4 months). Part of my Code of Honor is to NEVER harm a woman. I was afraid that when I first had to do anything with a woman at my dojo (they are all Shodan and Nidan), that I would hurt them. After a bit of working with different people, you learn how to tell how much they can handle. But it is always a good thing to go slow in the technique, and not at full force. When in doubt, ask Sensei.

"The Art of Peace is the religion that is not a religion; it perfects and completes all religions."
-Morihei Ueshiba
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 08:42 PM   #13
Ian Williams
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 136
Offline
Re: Female uke

Quote:
Troy Copes wrote:
. When in doubt, ask Sensei.

Why not ask the woman? Communication is the key.. "Do you mind if I perform this faster/stronger", or simply observe them for signs of stress etc.

That's what I do in JJ with female training partners and it works fine.In fact that's what I do with male partners too.

Tsutsumi Ryu Jujitsu
Adelaide, South Australia

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 08:55 PM   #14
xuzen
 
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Female uke

Personally I hate or have a dispreferance to initiate technique from mune-mochi (grabbing from the lapel) on lady uke especially during jiyu-waza. This is because I will unintentionally grab their boobs as well. I always feel embarrassed after that, but I will never show it, then it will also embarrasses the uke.


Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 09:06 PM   #15
Greg Jennings
Dojo: None at the moment.
Location: Springboro, OH
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,098
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

In life and in aikido, I try to treat each person as an individual rather than generalize them to be a member of some group.

FWIW,

Greg Jennings
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 09:26 PM   #16
Ian Williams
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 136
Offline
Re: Female uke

I personally find the whole training environment on the mat rather asexual. It doesn't bother me to be grappling with sweaty blokes with our limbs entwined or face squashed up against groin etc.. Why should it bother me to touch a female?

If a training environment is so sexually charged, then surely we must all be living out our gay fantasies then?? :rollseyes:

come on people! it's the 21st century! get over it..

Tsutsumi Ryu Jujitsu
Adelaide, South Australia

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 10:41 PM   #17
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
Location: Fremont, CA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 248
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

Quote:
Ian Williams wrote:
If a training environment is so sexually charged
Ian, I'm sorry my question made you to come to that conclusion. Environment in the dojo is far from that and I really enjoy being there. I'm not very religious person, but to me the closes thing to dojo that I can think of is a temple.

Quote:
Ian Williams wrote:
come on people! it's the 21st century! get over it..
That's my intention and the reason I started this thread was to find some advices how to overcome that problem in the most effective way.

Quote:
Greg Jennings wrote:
In life and in aikido, I try to treat each person as an individual rather than generalize them to be a member of some group.
Greg, I know you are a wise man and I appreciate your peaceful and relaxed nature. Maybe one day I'll be close to that state of mind. As for today I will have that in mind as one of my targets.

Troy, Boon. Man I'm so glad I'm not alone. I started to think like I'm some sort of a psycho.

Anyway, probably I'm overreacting since it was the first time having a female partner. Everything is difficult at first, and I guess that's just another training experience
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2004, 11:54 PM   #18
Ian Williams
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 136
Offline
Re: Female uke

sorry for sounding a bit abrupt there, I didnt mean to imply you were a wacko or anything ..

my advice is to treat the dojo as an asexual envionment and to be congiscant of your partners ukemi abilities, whether they be male, female or other.

Tsutsumi Ryu Jujitsu
Adelaide, South Australia

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2004, 12:25 AM   #19
suren
Dojo: Aikido of Silicon Valley
Location: Fremont, CA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 248
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

Ian, no hard feelings at all (I exaggerated by saying "I feel as sort of a psycho"). I just want to make sure my problems are not considered to be initiated by the environment in the dojo. My problems are solely mine and nobody is responsible for them besides me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2004, 12:31 AM   #20
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
Re: Female uke

I have a tendency to give smaller female nages attacks which are as sincere as with larger male counterparts. If they are still struggling with the technique, of course, then I tone it down as much as necessary.

But... too many people just give women the fake,slow, lifeless attacks, CONSTANTLY, thus jeopardizing their ability to react to a real attack if such is to occur at some point in their life.
The physics are very different.

Of course, slow motion training is very important as long as both uke and nage comply to the laws of "slowed down physics" in this mode. It helps to feel how the movement should go.

But, everyone needs to experience fast, energetic attacks which are delivered with a semblance of balance. The world doesnt magically soften up if you're a woman.
When you're giving a smaller-framed female an impression that she can "block" your shomen strike, while in fact, it can drive through her "block" like knife through butter, you're jeopardizing her learning.
She needs to learn to deal with attacks which cannot be stopped.
She needs to modify her "irimi nage" response in a way which allows her to do the technique with a superior-strength attack without trying to put up a direct block.

Often this energy that is given to them can be quite a present and enable them to REALLY throw the uke, using his own energy.
With slow "pity" attacks that is not possible.

Last edited by shihonage : 07-28-2004 at 12:43 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2004, 02:21 AM   #21
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Female uke

These threads always make me glad that I'm just a git and so hit everyone exactly the same way...

OK, so I'll just go with what's been said before: consistent, honest attacks at all times and I assume if I'm being too rough, my partner will tell me, otherwise it's open season.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2004, 02:25 AM   #22
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Philippines
Offline
Re: Female uke

Quote:
Troy Copes wrote:
I had the same problem in the beginning (been in Aikido for almost 4 months). Part of my Code of Honor is to NEVER harm a woman. I was afraid that when I first had to do anything with a woman at my dojo (they are all Shodan and Nidan), that I would hurt them. After a bit of working with different people, you learn how to tell how much they can handle. But it is always a good thing to go slow in the technique, and not at full force. When in doubt, ask Sensei.
I never had a problem with women uke. My first sensei is a woman, and she can wipe the floor with all of us men in the dojo without breathing hard. Also was national judo champion in her weight class at one point. So no, I don't have a problem with treating women with "real energy" in my attacks. Sometimes I wonder if not harming me is part of their code of honor.


RAUL
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2004, 05:00 AM   #23
Bridge
Dojo: Slough Aikikai
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 130
United Kingdom
Offline
Wink Re: Female uke

Quote:
Ian Hurst wrote:
These threads always make me glad that I'm just a git and so hit everyone exactly the same way...
.
Hehe, like it!

Personally I gauge it by their manner. If they look apprehensive, then go easy. If they are well up for it, then go for it! With varying shades inbetween.

That way you're not discriminating.

Then again, I guess I don't have the same moral issues as the guys. Being one of the girls, it's all the same really except when it comes to the juniors.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2004, 06:51 AM   #24
drDalek
 
drDalek's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 155
Offline
Re: Female uke

I know this is a stereotype but it seems that women have less of an "I need to prove myself" instinct than men, atleast were Aikido is concerned. So theoretically you can go even harder and faster with the girls before they see it as a personal attack and their egos start suffering than you can with the boys.

Also girls smell nicer and are prettier to look at.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2004, 07:05 AM   #25
Fiona D
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 50
Offline
Re: Female uke

I think this is a relatively common situation; most of the male beginners in my jiu jitsu dojo are somewhat reticent about attacking the female jitsuka or throwing them hard.... at first. Generally a lot of ingrained cultural habits (ie. Bad To Hit Women) to get over. But they DO get over it fairly quickly as a rule. Just give it a little bit of time to get used to the idea, and don't worry about it too much!
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Male or Female Taliesin Humor 2 10-18-2005 10:36 AM
Difference: Male and Female Sensei rachel General 32 01-26-2005 09:26 PM
Female Sensei lenna General 31 01-18-2005 06:53 PM
Female Aikidoka jeda General 23 01-05-2004 06:02 AM
Poll: What percentage of your aikido dojo is female? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 3 12-16-2001 09:28 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:34 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate