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Old 07-01-2006, 02:53 PM   #1
Paberu
Dojo: Takemusu Aiki Iwama Ivanovo
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One more iwamaivanovo!

Hi all, one more iwama style aikido in Russia video clip!
http://www.iwamaivanovo.ru/video/rbi_oyowaza.wmv

Good luck!
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Old 07-01-2006, 04:31 PM   #2
aikigirl10
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

To me, it seems a little more choppy than the aikido i take, (which is traditional aikikai). There are long pauses in some of the techniques used, which makes it seem less effective, but on the other hand, it also seems more aggressive. Of course, i have no experience with this style of aikido so i really wouldn't know.
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Old 07-01-2006, 08:42 PM   #3
sullivanw
Dojo: Portland Aikikai
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Cool to watch; it looks pretty hardcore. With my ukemi skills, I would end up being broken little pieces of Will all over the stage!!

-Will
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Old 07-01-2006, 09:13 PM   #4
Mark Uttech
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

I can just imagine the commentary at a sign language convention/seminar: "the signing of certain words was too choppy, the pauses between expressions were most unusual..." Hikisutchie Shihan put it rather bluntly one day: "When you see good aikido, you automatically know what bad aikido is..."
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Old 07-01-2006, 09:17 PM   #5
aikigirl10
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
I can just imagine the commentary at a sign language convention/seminar: "the signing of certain words was too choppy, the pauses between expressions were most unusual..." Hikisutchie Shihan put it rather bluntly one day: "When you see good aikido, you automatically know what bad aikido is..."
wow, that sounded a little rude.... i even said i dont know much about this style... sorry i said anything...
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Old 07-02-2006, 04:16 AM   #6
villrg0a
 
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
To me, it seems a little more choppy than the aikido i take, (which is traditional aikikai). There are long pauses in some of the techniques used, which makes it seem less effective, but on the other hand, it also seems more aggressive. Of course, i have no experience with this style of aikido so i really wouldn't know.
Could it be that the long pauses were intentionally done to give uke the chance to recover to execute a safe fall?
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Old 07-02-2006, 05:19 AM   #7
Mark Uttech
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

To Paige, I admit it did sound a little rude, so sorry. It was one of those 'automatic emotional responses' when we are taken by surprise with something we read or view. I dare to think that all
of us here on the internet find surprises like these: I've even given a poetic name to these surprises!
I simply refer to them as: "an arrow whistling in the dark." We act, and react, and sometimes we look back and are aghast at what we have done. What we really want to hear is someone telling us
"wow, you're lucky!"
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Old 07-02-2006, 07:15 AM   #8
mjchip
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Again, some of the BEST aikido demonstrations I've seen.

Mark
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Old 07-02-2006, 09:51 AM   #9
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Pavel Ermilov wrote:
Hi all, one more iwama style aikido in Russia video clip!
http://www.iwamaivanovo.ru/video/rbi_oyowaza.wmv

Good luck!
I like some of the moves very much. He seems a solid player, and his folks take nice UKEMI.

As was mentioned once before when Russian aikido vids were uploaded--I'd guess they're the same guy--the stuff looks very carefully choreographed, a point I make because we're likely going to see the terms "realistic" creep up with such a...vigorous...style.

As to the choppiness, watch Isoyama for choppy, Tada, sometimes, too.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 07-02-2006, 10:31 AM   #10
Chris Li
 
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
To me, it seems a little more choppy than the aikido i take, (which is traditional aikikai).
What's "traditional aikikai"?

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-02-2006, 03:00 PM   #11
aikigirl10
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
What's "traditional aikikai"?

Best,

Chris
traditional aikido, is all i've heard it described as.

aikikai is the affiliation i believe
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Old 07-02-2006, 06:05 PM   #12
Chris Li
 
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
traditional aikido, is all i've heard it described as.

aikikai is the affiliation i believe
Iwama style (as in the video clip) is also Aikikai.

"Aikido" itself is only a little over 60 years old, which seems (to me) to make any "traditional" labels sort of strange. Anyway, the Aikikai is an umbrella organization that covers many different styles of practice.

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-02-2006, 07:07 PM   #13
aikigirl10
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
Iwama style (as in the video clip) is also Aikikai.

"Aikido" itself is only a little over 60 years old, which seems (to me) to make any "traditional" labels sort of strange. Anyway, the Aikikai is an umbrella organization that covers many different styles of practice.

Best,

Chris
ok my bad about the aikikai part
As for the traditional label... it's just the original aikido that O sensei taught, with no sort of variations or anything... what would like me to call it chris?? I'll call it whatever u wish.

...jesus...
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Old 07-02-2006, 07:28 PM   #14
Chris Li
 
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
ok my bad about the aikikai part
As for the traditional label... it's just the original aikido that O sensei taught, with no sort of variations or anything... what would like me to call it chris?? I'll call it whatever u wish.

...jesus...
The thing is, just about everybody (especially the Iwama style folks such as those in the video) claims that they are doing "the original Aikido that O sensei taught", but they're all doing things that are quite different.

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-02-2006, 08:51 PM   #15
aikigirl10
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
The thing is, just about everybody (especially the Iwama style folks such as those in the video) claims that they are doing "the original Aikido that O sensei taught", but they're all doing things that are quite different.

Best,

Chris

whatever... i really dont care... no offense

----- edit -----

here is a link to our dojo's website

http://www.kyowva-aikikai.freeservers.com/

it even says on there "this is a traditional aikido dojo" That's all i've been taught.. im sorry if it's not up to par

Last edited by aikigirl10 : 07-02-2006 at 08:54 PM. Reason: add
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Old 07-02-2006, 09:40 PM   #16
Chris Li
 
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
whatever... i really dont care... no offense

----- edit -----

here is a link to our dojo's website

http://www.kyowva-aikikai.freeservers.com/

it even says on there "this is a traditional aikido dojo" That's all i've been taught.. im sorry if it's not up to par
It's not about being up to par, it's that exactly what "traditional" Aikido or "the Aikido of the founder" means is by no means clear, and has been a common subject for disagreement. For one viewpoint, try http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=34

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-02-2006, 09:59 PM   #17
aikigirl10
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
It's not about being up to par, it's that exactly what "traditional" Aikido or "the Aikido of the founder" means is by no means clear, and has been a common subject for disagreement. For one viewpoint, try http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=34

Best,

Chris
i would argue with u about that, i really would... but i just don't want to....

Paige
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Old 07-02-2006, 10:02 PM   #18
Mark Uttech
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

wow. lots of arrows whistling in the dark tonight!
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Old 07-02-2006, 10:12 PM   #19
aikigirl10
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
wow. lots of arrows whistling in the dark tonight!
and really ugly owls...
that wasn't a metaphor or anything.


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Old 07-03-2006, 01:54 AM   #20
Chris Li
 
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
i would argue with u about that, i really would... but i just don't want to....

Paige
Yes, I know, you really don't care (or that's what you said above). But you ought to, or at least, I think so. For me, it's important to examine the historical roots of Aikido and Morihei Ueshiba as a part and parcel of Aikido training, and the issues raised around phrases like "traditional Aikido" touch upon many important historical issues (and many philosophical ones as well).

Anyway, I thought the demonstrations were quite good, although carefully choreographed (that's not a bad thing).

Best,

Chris

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Old 07-03-2006, 06:07 AM   #21
aikigirl10
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:

Anyway, I thought the demonstrations were quite good
i agree
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Old 07-03-2006, 11:29 AM   #22
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

What I REALLY want to know, though, is what Szczepan thought of this video? .D :P

kvaak
Pauliina
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Old 07-03-2006, 11:37 AM   #23
dps
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Pauliina Lievonen wrote:
What I REALLY want to know, though, is what Szczepan thought of this video? .D :P

kvaak
Pauliina
Yes, sir what do you think of this video compared to the video of the children's demonstration.?
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Old 07-03-2006, 12:31 PM   #24
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Pauliina Lievonen wrote:
What I REALLY want to know, though, is what Szczepan thought of this video? .D :P

kvaak
Pauliina
You know Pauliina, for me aikido practice is not a circus or show. Demo to promote aikido must mirror daily practice, not develop false choreography like in the theatre.

That's why; in this video these guys miss completely the point. Also, they try to simulate 'real' attacks --- and it can be good for somebody who never saw a fight. However, it is very far from reality, so in that sense they cheat public that watch it.

From technical point of view, tori looks very stiff, by doing short, sharp movements he seems to believe that he can develop more power.His body doesn't move in the moment of a throw, it means that he does technique only with his hands. This way he can't release a real power. So uke must jump and help him to do a technique. I hope tori will progress in the future, but he will need a real Master.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 07-03-2006, 01:09 PM   #25
Don_Modesto
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Re: One more iwamaivanovo!

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
Yes, I know, you really don't care, etc.
Chris, you are a patient man. My congratulations and admiration.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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