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Old 06-30-2006, 03:35 PM   #1
Jess McDonald
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Question how much training before...

Hello out there! How much training in Aikido should I have under my belt ( no pun intended) before I start formal training in like say Kenpo or BJJ? I think I have to much time on my hands. Thanks! Bye!
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:03 PM   #2
Guilty Spark
 
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Re: how much training before...

I'm probably the least qulified person on this site to answer so I will anyways

It's all up to you in the end my friend. We've touched on it in a few other threads here.

Mixing your martial arts will have pros and cons.

Some people will try 2 or 3 at the same time sacrificing "mastery" for exposure to different styles while some people will devote their whole time to aikido.

You won't get a right or wrong answer. I'm guessing your looking for a what belt should I reach before trying something new. Green belt *might* be a good guess (as such its mine) but your going to get a bunch of opinions.

Taking on more than one martial art at a time is tricky because you're having to learn twice as much. Different names, different languages, different stances etc.. etc..

It's all personal choice was the basic answer to simular questions in another thread.
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Old 06-30-2006, 05:59 PM   #3
milesc
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Re: how much training before...

It also depends on your own personal history. If you have never taken a martial art before, then you may want to reconsider starting up with more than one school at the same time.

Every school will want the same basic things from you:

Respect, hard work and a willingness to learn.

Getting into the swing of those basic tenets can be difficult in your first few weeks with a martial arts club/school/dojo as you learn formalities, practices and even basic techniques like how to stretch and warm up.

The concept that you cannot master an art without dedicating your life to it is an opinion; you need to decide for yourself when you are ready to take on the same commitment you made to your first art and apply it again to another art.

When and if you do decide to study a second art, you will find that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Good schools all tend to have the exact same principles at their hearts and you will be compelled to give back the same 100% in practicing your instructors will give you in teaching.

Last edited by milesc : 06-30-2006 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 06-30-2006, 06:46 PM   #4
mickeygelum
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Re: how much training before...

...if you can keep focused in the art that you are training in at that moment, go for what you can get....it is different for everyone...some can, some can not...find out for yourself..good luck..
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Old 07-01-2006, 06:04 PM   #5
Lucy Smith
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Re: how much training before...

My Sensei said 15 years... I think he's crazy. I'll start Ju-jitsu in about one or two years, having started Aikido this past March.
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Old 07-01-2006, 06:54 PM   #6
DonMagee
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Re: how much training before...

If your instructor doesn't support your crosstraining he may make your aikido training a living hell. Make sure he understands and supports your crosstraining. As long as that is true, start as soon as you feel you are ready. With something like bjj or judo I dont see why you can't train it at the same time as aikido. They really help each other out.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 07-01-2006, 11:09 PM   #7
Jess McDonald
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Re: how much training before...

Sweet! Thanks for all your input. I'm actually surprised by what was suggested. I thought everyone was going to say no cross-training but everybody seems very supportive of it. Frankly, I don't have the cash to do another dojo's fees at the moment but at least I know it's not frowned upon to cross-train. Thanks again everyone and good writings!
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Old 07-01-2006, 11:23 PM   #8
David Yap
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Re: how much training before...

Quote:
Jess McDonald wrote:
Hello out there! How much training in Aikido should I have under my belt ( no pun intended) before I start formal training in like say Kenpo or BJJ? I think I have to much time on my hands. Thanks! Bye!
Hi Jess,

Depending on the individual, it will take a while to really understand the essence of the art. "A while" can be 2 years to 20 years depending on both your passion and the communicative and technical skills of your teacher. As the saying goes, "The teacher will appear when the student is ready".

I assume that your goal in "formal training" is to have competency (both knowledge & skill) in the art. I have come across many window-dressed CVs of "masters" who have just about 1 month-1 year training in this MA or that MA. Dabbling into a MA & mastery of MA are the opposite points of the path.

On the contrary, I know of a 5th karate instructor who had some success in kumite and kata competitions both in the UK and in the US. He had about 20 years under his karate belt. After starting formal training in BJJ, he said that karate does not work in a fight. He removed karate from the curriculum in his own SD gym/dojo and invited the best BJJ instructors to instruct him and his students (now his ex-karate students). In this sense, he was prepared to throw the baby out with the bath water. Some of you might see that there is no commercial sense to do what he did but indeed there is. For a high rank and experienced karateka to say that karate does not work, it is absolutely credible and I won't even question him.

Just my 2 sen.

David Y
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Old 07-02-2006, 08:23 AM   #9
mjchip
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Re: how much training before...

Quote:
Jess McDonald wrote:
Hello out there! How much training in Aikido should I have under my belt ( no pun intended) before I start formal training in like say Kenpo or BJJ? I think I have to much time on my hands. Thanks! Bye!
It would be impossible to give a guideline since learning is such an organic process and all humans are different BUT here is a single datapoint from my own training. I've been doing Aikido for 15 years and this year I started cross training in Judo. After a few months I made the conscious decision to stop. The primary reason is that with my other commitments (work, family, running the dojo, etc.) there simply wasn't enough time for me to study my Aikido (body art, weapons, Iai batto ho, zazen) curriculum let alone cross train in another art.

I guess it all depends on what your end goal is (sounds like you are interested in building an MMA skillset with Kenpo and BJJ). If I were going to train for MMA, I'd stop Aikido at this point (15yrs in) and start training BJJ and Muay Thai. Once proficient in those skill sets, I'd resume training Aikido albeit with less frequency.

Mark
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Old 07-02-2006, 10:49 AM   #10
SeiserL
 
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Re: how much training before...

How much training before ... ?
Enough to know the difference and to keep them separated in your training.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 07-02-2006, 11:57 AM   #11
dps
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Re: how much training before...

I think you need to pick one martial art as your foundation and maintain that foundation. Then when you study other arts you will have some experience and knowledge about martial arts in general and the principals that are common to all martial arts. I would suggest that you always come back to your foundation art for comparing and evaluating what you want to do.
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Old 07-02-2006, 07:58 PM   #12
Aristeia
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Re: how much training before...

you can of course allow for the possibility that over time your foundation art may change. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 07-03-2006, 07:46 AM   #13
Amelia Smith
 
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Re: how much training before...

I agree with David, that you should have one foundation art and maintian that foundation. A year and a half ago I took a few BJJ classes, after about 9 years of aikido. I found that I really wanted to just focus on aikido, that even with my flexible schedule, I didn't have the time and energy to practice two arts seriously. Also, I didn't like the schedule of the BJJ classes (they ended at 9pm, which made it hard for me to wind down in time to get enough sleep).

There are more people on aikiweb who support cross-training than I've seen in the aikido dojo where I've trained. Most aikido shihan that I've encountered seem to encourage some training in iaido (or sometimes kendo), to augment your aikido, but among the masses here BJJ is often seen as a complementary art. I am a traditionalist, I guess, so next time that I cross-train I hope it will be in iaido or kendo. Either way, I think that after shodan is a natural time to begin cross-training, even though I know that standards for shodan vary widely.
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Old 07-03-2006, 08:27 AM   #14
Neal Earhart
 
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Re: how much training before...

Quote:
Amelia Smith wrote:
I agree with David, that you should have one foundation art and maintian that foundation.
I also agree. Without a solid foundation in one art, and by solid I mean several years of training, I don't see how a person can possibly cross-train in multiple arts and gain any real proficiency. If a person starts Aikido and another art, after 2 years of training in both you would have an individual that isn't as proficient in either as someone who focused on one art for the same time period.

If you are going to start Aikido, start Aikido and focus on building a solid foudation for a few years. then if you want to start experimenting with another art, it will have less of a negative impact on your basic Aikido skills.

I started Judo in 1993 after 5 years of Aikido training. After about 2 and a half years of training both concurrently, I stopped Judo. I felt that the Judo was not benefiting my Aikido from a technique perspective and, more importantly, the days that I practiced Judo were days that I was not practicing Aikido. I did enjoy Judo, it was fun and a darn good work-out. But, I didn't see any positive benefit to my Aikido.


-enjoy the day !

Last edited by Neal Earhart : 07-03-2006 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 07-03-2006, 11:08 PM   #15
seank
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Re: how much training before...

Hmmm... "the hunter chasing two rabbits catches neither...."

or "You can only climb one mountain at a time"

I would probably recommend another art before Aikido, or to have trained for a significant period of time in Aikido before trying another art...

There are a lot of similarities between Aikido and other martial arts, but I also find the subtle differences can make it very hard to make a clean distinction...

Of course its always going to come down to the individual
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Old 07-08-2006, 06:33 PM   #16
Dan Hover
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Re: how much training before...

well my instructor said something like 10-15 years before trying another art, and lo and behold 13 years later....I started SMR Jo, and MJER Iai, and I am glad I did wait the time. Fundamentally different arts, and If I didn't have the confidence/and or background. I might be quick to call one movement "wrong" or "that's not how it is done". Now I just know that they are different, not really better, not really worse. Different tools for a different job, and should be treated as such. I would never chuck Aikido to the wind because SMR jo is more "real" than Aiki Jo. That would be complete ignorance of both arts.

Dan Hover

of course that's my opinion, I could be wrong
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Old 07-10-2006, 10:37 AM   #17
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Re: how much training before...

Quote:
Jess McDonald wrote:
Hello out there! How much training in Aikido should I have under my belt ( no pun intended) before I start formal training in like say Kenpo or BJJ?
a lifetime?
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:01 PM   #18
Chuck.Gordon
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Re: how much training before...

Quote:
Jess McDonald wrote:
Hello out there! How much training in Aikido should I have under my belt ( no pun intended) before I start formal training in like say Kenpo or BJJ? I think I have to much time on my hands. Thanks! Bye!
Enough to know the difference. Enough to know the difference in approach, technique, philosophy, application, history, concept and relationships to other forms of martial arts.

If you really want to augment your aikido, I'd sugest another Japanese budo, such as judo, for instance, that will share some common ideas, terminology, and methodologies to aikido.

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Old 07-10-2006, 01:24 PM   #19
dps
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Re: how much training before...

Quote:
Jess McDonald wrote:
Hello out there! How much training in Aikido should I have under my belt ( no pun intended) before I start formal training in like say Kenpo or BJJ? I think I have to much time on my hands. Thanks! Bye!
If you have time on your hands and want to augment your Aikido, then practice more Aikido.
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Old 07-11-2006, 07:40 AM   #20
Amir Krause
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Confused Re: how much training before...

Quote:
Jess McDonald wrote:
Hello out there! How much training in Aikido should I have under my belt ( no pun intended) before I start formal training in like say Kenpo or BJJ? I think I have to much time on my hands. Thanks! Bye!

Sorry
But I must be missing something:
I am sure any BJJ school would be happy to let you start learning there today, even without practicing a single day of Aikido. Probably the same is true for Kenpo.

If you are refering to a specific teacher, then he can decide whatever he wishes (including no to accept you ever). And the opinions expressed here are just irrelevant.

Amir
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Old 07-12-2006, 09:48 AM   #21
Lyle Bogin
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Re: how much training before...

You can afford both ?
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