Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-07-2006, 09:05 AM   #101
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,905
Spain
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
I wanted to explore the possilibty of tomiki or tohei's aikido destroying aikido.
Under that perspective (using different training methods as a disrespect to the founder) we can add Saotome, Saito, Nishio, Kisshomaru, Chiba, Shioda, ........... (fill here with your favourite Shihan) to that list.

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 09:29 AM   #102
DonMagee
Location: Indiana
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,311
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
Under that perspective (using different training methods as a disrespect to the founder) we can add Saotome, Saito, Nishio, Kisshomaru, Chiba, Shioda, ........... (fill here with your favourite Shihan) to that list.
Exactly my point

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 09:35 AM   #103
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
In a nutshell the I-Method is:

* Introduce: Demonstrate and explain the material being taught, let them drill it to get a basic understanding and put it static reps.
* Isolate: Work on the material in isolation, usually with drills or restricted sparring with progressively increasing resistance/difficulty.
* Integrate: Have the students incorporate the material into their whole game, usually in free rolling/sparring.

There are a few good articles on the web about this:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36273
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquiry_Method
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36280
http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/200...-sbgi-way.html

A goggle search on the I-method (inquiry method or inquiry education) will show that it is successfully in math, science, and any other area that requires critical thinking and a deeper understanding than memorization. It works in kids and adults equally well.

To explore further, is what tohei did still aikido? Is what tomiki did still aikido? They broke from the general consensus of the aikiki they broke from the standard training methods. Is it no longer aikido? It's not the founders aikido.
Thanks Don,

I now know that I am already doing the 'I method' but with the addition of coaching the students on a one to one basis at all the stages, which seems to help the process along.

Of course what Tohei did is still aikido, he just formulated exercises to help people 'get' what he saw was a fundamental part/aspect of aikido that was 'lacking' in the teaching method of the art. The aikiki may not have liked what he did, but it didn't stop him from continuing on his path.

For aikido to flourish in the modern world it has to adapt to the modern world, if this means keeping up with developments in learning how to learn, then this is what should happen.

Anyone over a certain age, watching the current World Cup competition will see football/soccer being played differently to the way it was 40 years ago. The coaching/training methods are not the same, they have changed and evolved. No one is thinking that it should still be done the way it was 'back in the old days'.

Football and Cricket and Rugby came from the UK, but we can't claim these sports to be ours, they belong to everyone, and everyone regularly beats us at our own game, just to prove it!
The Japanese can lay claim to being the birthplace of aikido, but they do not own the rights to aikido, and if the global community takes it and translates it into their own language, and puts their own spin on it, 'great' I say. Old school Japanese teaching methods worked for them and their culture back then. There is no reason that this should be the way that we all do it today. And no reason for that to be seen as a watering down either, for as long as the principles of the art are being passed on, then the art will not only survive, but also flourish. I know there maybe some old die-hards that disagree, but along with the dinosaurs their time will eventually come.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 11:47 AM   #104
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,118
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
I know there maybe some old die-hards that disagree, but along with the dinosaurs their time will eventually come.
Dinosaur heaven?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 04:15 PM   #105
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 976
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
I dont belive so (at least I hope people dont think that). Their are posts in this thread that say drastic changes in training methods change the art to the point where it is no longer honorable to call it by the arts name. And that these changes disrespect the founders of the arts and destroy the culture. I wanted to explore the possilibty of tomiki or tohei's aikido destroying aikido .....
I never said Tomiki or Tohei "destroyed" Aikido. Tomiki, however, did go against the founder's wishes. THAT was disrepectful.

Did O Sensei want Aikido to remain unchanged for all time? No. He wanted people to put their own stamp on it. That's why Tomiki and all his contemporaries -- including Shioda and Shirata, among others -- were all different in their approaches from O Sensei and different from each other. That's where I draw the line. If they explicitly tell you "don't do x," don't do it. If it's "you can do anything but x," then there's some wiggle room to explore and experiment once you know enough to know what you're doing. I've seen advanced people -- just on either side of shodan -- trying different things during seminars, but they're advanced students. They have the tools to express themselves, so it must be ok.

I don't know whether the I-method has been banned form Aikido. For all we know, someone in the Aikikai system or one of the other groups is playing around with it. That's there business. But even allowing for change, did O Sensei mean for us to change things indescriminantly, to challenge things just because we can? To do whatever we want and call it Aikido? No, I don't think so. I think there are limits, boundaries. There are things that are important to him at the heart of the enterprise. When you deviate from those things, you've gone over the line and you can't honestly call it Aikido anymore. You would have to call it something else, and that's ok. Nothing wrong with starting your own system. But doing your own thing and calling it someone else's .... no. O Sensei didn't do that, did he? That's why we're debating about Aikido and not Daito Ryu Aikijutusu. When he came up with his own art, he gave it its own name and identity, instead of trying to pass it off as someone else's. The same lesson is true for us today.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 04:24 PM   #106
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

I do what I want and what I think is best when I train in my on dojo. When I go to my instructor's dojo and when I want to test in aikido by the known and commonly recognized organization of ASU and Aikikai...I do what I am told to do in that dojo.

To me it is really that simple. I don't question it or the methods...if I want to advance in that organization.

I don't know how much simpler it could be.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 08:24 PM   #107
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 976
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
.... For aikido to flourish in the modern world it has to adapt to the modern world, if this means keeping up with developments in learning how to learn, then this is what should happen.
Right now there are what, 1.5 million Aikido practitioners all over the world? And new dojos popping up all over the place. The one I go to didn't exist prior to 1997 AFAIK. If that's not "flourishing," even considering how rare martial artists are in our culture AND that up to 90% of the people who start quit within a year, I don't know what is. Looks to me like it's doing just fine!

Quote:
..... The Japanese can lay claim to being the birthplace of aikido, but they do not own the rights to aikido, and if the global community takes it and translates it into their own language, and puts their own spin on it, 'great' I say. Old school Japanese teaching methods worked for them and their culture back then. There is no reason that this should be the way that we all do it today. And no reason for that to be seen as a watering down either, for as long as the principles of the art are being passed on, then the art will not only survive, but also flourish. I know there maybe some old die-hards that disagree, but along with the dinosaurs their time will eventually come.

regards,

Mark

As a couterpoint, I just talked about this thread with my Kali instructor, and he said, "If I did Aikido formally some day, I wouldn't dream of doing it anything other than the traditional way. There's just so much history and culture there." And yes, this is coming from someone with both feet rooted in the eclectic martial arts movement. If you want to talk about mixing it up on the street, that's another matter, but as to how things are done in an Aikido dojo, he won't have an opion. And he's heavily influenced my thinking on this.

If you throw out the cultural references, what have you lost? Have you really gained anything? Are you missing out on something that you'd otherwise have? The reason for being careful about change is simple: You don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. O Sensei wanted Aikido to change and adapt; he said it's at the heart of Aikido. But he also said, "it is not necessary to totally abandon the old ways." Gee, maybe he had a point?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 09:06 PM   #108
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,993
United_States
Online
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
"If I did Aikido formally some day, I wouldn't dream of doing it anything other than the traditional way. There's just so much history and culture there."
Of course, the "tradition" is only a little over 60 years old...

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2006, 11:49 PM   #109
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 976
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
Of course, the "tradition" is only a little over 60 years old...

Best,

Chris
Yes, but it is lumped in with Japanese Karate and other "TMA;" that is where he is coming from. Point is he wouldn't think twice about putting on a gi, a white belt, following Japanese ettiquette, and using Japanese terminology. He also once told me, "I wouldn't be there to show how great I am, but to learn what they're teaching." Instead of questioning Sensei's methods, knowing him he'd be wondering, 'What is this teaching me? What is this designed to impart to me?' It's what I think, because of his influence.

In all honesty, I'm beginning to wonder if there are eclectic MA people who resepct traditions more than people in traditional systems. It sounds bizarre and counterintuitive, but why am I defening my viewpoint almost entirely by myself? All of the thoughts I've presented here come from outside Aikido, for a guy who hasn't trained in a Japanese dojo for 15-20 years! You'd think one person would say "You are correct in your take on respect," but nobody. Not very loudly, anyway. Maybe I'm wrong about this. But the "progressive" perspective from outside Aikido is, "It's fine the way it is. Learn the system and don't be disrepectful;" inside it's "We have to move with the time and maybe ditch or deemphasize that traditional stuff." Huh!?

Of course, the big fat exception to that rule is the Straight Blast Gym. Not surprisingly, Guro Andy once told me, "I reject them and all that they stand for!" Strong words coming from him. "They do little more than brawling," he said. "Bruce Lee said to liberate yourself, but is that really what he meant?" And given he's a JKD instructor, he knows a thing or three about Bruce Lee.

I wonder how many Aikido people I'll have to defend those statements against now?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 04:45 AM   #110
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,905
Spain
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
To me it is really that simple. I don't question it or the methods...if I want to advance in that organization.

I don't know how much simpler it could be.
This guy has a point.

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 06:26 AM   #111
milesc
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

One of the main points of conflict is that there seems to be no leeway for those "pro tradition". To adjust and change the methods of teaching seem to equate to rewriting the art in its entirety.

You don't have to abandon the old to improve upon it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 06:39 AM   #112
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

I think it is a sophmoric view that says that you must abandon the old for the new, progressive stuff. Those in the "old" that dismiss the "new" don't know what the appropriate response is to the "new" so they dismiss it as irrelevant or hide behind there "tradition".

Those that don't understand the "old" or traditional dismiss or discredit it many times as archiac, outdated, or "un-alive".

I think it is rare that you can find a teacher that can do both very well. That is, balance traditional, classic training, with all the new paradigms that seem to come about lately.

I think martial arts is simply evolving and maturing in the west as it progresses. Really in the U.S it is what, about 50 years old at best? I don't think it is that the parameters of fighting or training have changed much, but expectations, and maturity, and perspective of those that are studying the arts.

What used to pass for martial arts, wearing a gi, having a shomen, hanging a japanese or korean flag, and wearing a black belt, throw in a few kiai, kicks, and kata... just doesn't carry the same weight as it used to in the west. People are expecting much more these days.

I think many of the "old timers" have failed to respond to the times, have gotten lazy, and are resting on the laurels of their past, so the new generation comes along and says that those traditional guys and all that tradition gets in the way of "Real Training".

If the shoe fits wear it. Again, I default back to what I said a few post ago. "when in Rome...." If you don't want to be in "Rome" then don't go there.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 07:00 AM   #113
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 976
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Miles Calunod wrote:
One of the main points of conflict is that there seems to be no leeway for those "pro tradition". To adjust and change the methods of teaching seem to equate to rewriting the art in its entirety.

You don't have to abandon the old to improve upon it.
Well, if the teaching methods are part of the art, then yes, I would agree changing them is changing the art. The techniques are only part of the package, IMO. You can't strip out the language, the culture, change the methods, and say it's the same thing. There's a point beyond which it's just not Aikido anymore.

The same is true of Jun Fan/JKD. Sifu Andy Astle received his instrucorship in Jun Fan from Sifu Kevin Seaman, who was also his (and mine) Kali instructor; Sifu Kevin is under Sifu Dan Inosanto. Now, Sifu Andy and his contemporaries, that is the other peopel who trained with him under Sifu Kevin, all teach Jun Fan differently from Sifu Kevin and from each other; everyone has their own flavor -- BUT! --- there are certain things you have to do to honestly say you are doing Jun Fan, certain lines you don't cross. I know this because I talked with him about it last night and he agreed with me. And if Sifu Andy is trying to teach you soemthing and you mouth off about how you don't like that, you're questioning it .... watch out! His bullshit meter is set at "zero." "When you have a black sash, then you can form and opinion and do your own thing," he told me, "but until then your job is to keep your mouth shut and learn from me." Did I mention that's in JKD? The "non-traditional" people? Picking up on a theme?

So I think when you want to make adjustments, you have to be careful: you should incorporate something if it is appropriate to the art. What is the art trying to teach me? Will something like the I-method be appropriate, or would it get in the way?

For instance, LaCoste Inosanto Kali takes a topical approach. Last night, for instance, we looked at the kickboxing techniques and combinations from Panantukan. Of course, the point of Panantukan is not just to box with somebody but to get through their defenses so you can apply chokes or submissions or locks as found in the Dumog system. An encounter is broken into peices, those peices studied separately. However, in Pentjak Silat Serak, you have the sambuts (techniqes) and buangs (throws), and you see things as a unit: Your partner feeds a jab, say, and you do everything from beginning to (his!) end. Yes, you can analyze some things separately. You can -- and do -- practice things from the Tendjekan kickboxing system at the beginning of class. But Tendjekan is meant to facilitate entry to do a sambut or a buang.

Ok. Which approach is appropriate to Aikido? The Doshu writes how the emphasis should be on the "smooth motion of the entire body," so maybe a "unit" approach (which Aikido does already) makes more sense. But you also have to remember Kali is a HUGE system. You have to take a topical approach because there's so much ground to cover. Aikido has much less ground to cover; tryint to break it into peices would be flatly ridiculous. I mean, could you spend twenty mintues just studying how to raise and lower your tegatana? You do that anyway in the techniques, so why not go right to it?

Yes, change is good, but you shoudn't change for change's sake, you should have a reason for it. And even then, you should ask, is this appropriate to the art? Will it be disrespectful? Martial arts about more than just learning and teaching cool moves, so much more. That's why the "pro tradition" people seem so "inflexible." If you lose more than you gain, what's the point? Don Magee ridiculed my "do not question the Master" answers; he seems to be saying "always question the master; take nothing he says for granted." Well, if you're going to do that, why did you go to that person in the first place? And if getting you to do anything is an uphill battle, then why should that person even try to teach you anything?

Did I mention my thinking was influenced by a JKD guy?

Just my $0.02.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 09:15 AM   #114
mickeygelum
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
mickeygelum's Avatar
Dojo: Warren Budokan, Ohio USA
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 502
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Mr Gallagher....you did write this...
Quote:
I never said Tomiki or Tohei "destroyed" Aikido. Tomiki, however, did go against the founder's wishes. THAT was disrepectful
....in who's opinion? Yours? Professor Tomiki was the first issued menkyo kaiden by Ueshiba....his opinion must not be of too much value, eh? For all the years that Tomiki trained under Ueshiba, I am sure henever discussed or expressed himself as to his ideas of Randori no Kata, must have slipped his mind...what a back-stabbing Uchi-Deshi..bad Tomiki...bad, bad Tomiki...

Aikiweb...Aikido...Aikijujutsu...not, Jung Fang do-wa-diddy-diddy...
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 10:42 AM   #115
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 976
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote:
Mr Gallagher....you did write this...

....in who's opinion? Yours? Professor Tomiki was the first issued menkyo kaiden by Ueshiba....his opinion must not be of too much value, eh? For all the years that Tomiki trained under Ueshiba, I am sure henever discussed or expressed himself as to his ideas of Randori no Kata, must have slipped his mind...what a back-stabbing Uchi-Deshi..bad Tomiki...bad, bad Tomiki...
I admit I don't know very much about Tomiki. The Shambhala Guide to Aikido says he "attemtped to combine Aikido and Judo against the express wishes of Morihei)" (bold face mine). Now, if O Sensei flat out told Tomiki "Don't do that" and he did it anyway, yes, in my opinion, that was disrespectuful. I don't care how long Tomiki studied with O Sensei or how many licenses he earned. Your teacher tells you not to do something and you do it anyway. What would you call that? I don't call it being polite.
Quote:
Aikiweb...Aikido...Aikijujutsu...not, Jung Fang do-wa-diddy-diddy...
Ahem The phrase you're looking for is "Jun Fan Gung Fu." And if you ever want to look into that art without being booted out of the class, I strongly advise you to get that right and leave the do-wa-diddy-diddy out of it. Just a thought.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 10:45 AM   #116
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,993
United_States
Online
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
I admit I don't know very much about Tomiki. The Shambhala Guide to Aikido says he "attemtped to combine Aikido and Judo against the express wishes of Morihei)" (bold face mine). Now, if O Sensei flat out told Tomiki "Don't do that" and he did it anyway, yes, in my opinion, that was disrespectuful. I don't care how long Tomiki studied with O Sensei or how many licenses he earned. Your teacher tells you not to do something and you do it anyway. What would you call that? I don't call it being polite.
You mean like with Morihei Ueshiba and Sokaku Takeda?

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 10:46 AM   #117
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 976
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
.... What used to pass for martial arts, wearing a gi, having a shomen, hanging a japanese or korean flag, and wearing a black belt, throw in a few kiai, kicks, and kata... just doesn't carry the same weight as it used to in the west. People are expecting much more these days.

I think many of the "old timers" have failed to respond to the times, have gotten lazy, and are resting on the laurels of their past, so the new generation comes along and says that those traditional guys and all that tradition gets in the way of "Real Training".
It doesn't? Funny, that describes the dojos I've either trained in or visited; they seem to be happening places. The dojo I've gone to in Cincinnati for seminars is pretty big, and they fill up the mat pretty well; maybe they have tiny regular classes but I doubt it.

Maybe we should remember another saying: "Different strokes for different folks."
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 10:50 AM   #118
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 976
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
You mean like with Morihei Ueshiba and Sokaku Takeda?

Best,

Chris
If that's what happened, maybe. I don't know. But then again, O Sensei called his art Aikido, not Daito-Ryu Aikijutusu. Calling it "Aikido," he was doing his own thing; you can't criticize him for that because it was his. But if he'd continued to call it "Daito-Ryu Aikijutusu" even though he was doing things differently from Takeda, that would not have been good.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 10:57 AM   #119
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,993
United_States
Online
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
If that's what happened, maybe. I don't know. But then again, O Sensei called his art Aikido, not Daito-Ryu Aikijutusu. Calling it "Aikido," he was doing his own thing; you can't criticize him for that because it was his. But if he'd continued to call it "Daito-Ryu Aikijutusu" even though he was doing things differently from Takeda, that would not have been good.
1) He didn't call it "Aikido" until 1942, by which time the problems between him and Takeda had existed for years.
2) "Aikido" itself was, at the time, a general category within the Butokukai, and open for use as a name by just about anybody, which lends some strength to the argument for other people using the name for their art.
3) In the end, Tomiki changed the name anyway, calling his art "Shodokan Aikido", which pretty much follows the normal naming conventions of altering the root name by adding a modifier (ie, "Billy-ryu" student breaks off and forms "Billy-bob-ryu") to both indicate the change and recognize the root art.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 01:52 PM   #120
CNYMike
Dojo: Finger Lakes Aikido
Location: Cortland, NY
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 976
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
1) He didn't call it "Aikido" until 1942, by which time the problems between him and Takeda had existed for years.
2) "Aikido" itself was, at the time, a general category within the Butokukai, and open for use as a name by just about anybody, which lends some strength to the argument for other people using the name for their art.
3) In the end, Tomiki changed the name anyway, calling his art "Shodokan Aikido", which pretty much follows the normal naming conventions of altering the root name by adding a modifier (ie, "Billy-ryu" student breaks off and forms "Billy-bob-ryu") to both indicate the change and recognize the root art.

Best,

Chris

Thank you for filling me in on the details. (Although I had read in Aikido: The Way of Harmony that O Sensei's art went by a slew of different names before he settled on "Aikido," so that wasn't unknown to me.) But does any of this mean it's ok to do something you've been explcitly told not to do? Sorry, I still don't agree with it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 01:56 PM   #121
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,993
United_States
Online
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
Thank you for filling me in on the details. (Although I had read in Aikido: The Way of Harmony that O Sensei's art went by a slew of different names before he settled on "Aikido," so that wasn't unknown to me.) But does any of this mean it's ok to do something you've been explcitly told not to do? Sorry, I still don't agree with it.
My point was, how can you blame Tomiki for doing essentially the same thing that Ueshiba did?

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 02:11 PM   #122
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
It doesn't? Funny, that describes the dojos I've either trained in or visited; they seem to be happening places. The dojo I've gone to in Cincinnati for seminars is pretty big, and they fill up the mat pretty well; maybe they have tiny regular classes but I doubt it.

Maybe we should remember another saying: "Different strokes for different folks."
Yea different strokes for different folks. (I guess that is where I was heading with the "when in Rome" comments.

I think also there is a huge dose of ignorance in what TMA offers in this world of "quick gains" and instant gratification.

(you really get yourself (or I have) into a jam when you start stereotyping. Anyway, just trying to generate thought and ideas for discussion.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 04:23 PM   #123
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,118
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
"Billy-ryu" student breaks off and forms "Billy-bob-ryu
do-wa-diddy-diddy-ryu
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 04:25 PM   #124
mickeygelum
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
mickeygelum's Avatar
Dojo: Warren Budokan, Ohio USA
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 502
United_States
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Mr Gallagher,
I have student just like you, carries a copy of "The Art of Peace" every where he goes...incessantly preaches about what OSensei meant about this quip and that quote...he hardly ever comes to class and sits on the internet bantering about things he never experienced or bore witness to....do you have any ambition to train, or do you just enjoy argueing with folks that do actually train...

...since you are not really versed in Shodokan Aikido, I invite you to the 2006 US National Tournament being held in Poughkeepsie, New York at Vassar College..the dates are October 14-15...

" Master the divine techniques of the Art of Peace and no one will dare challenge you "....Ueshiba Morihei
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2006, 04:28 PM   #125
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,118
Offline
Re: Brawling with a friend

Quote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
But does any of this mean it's ok to do something you've been explcitly told not to do?
Pretty strong statement.
I like to know where you read O'Sensei explicitly told Tomiki Sensei not to.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Frustrated by unconvincing aikido WantToSpeakOut Anonymous 88 04-18-2006 01:19 AM
I am looking for my friend KAORU MURASE melvin loh General 1 08-18-2005 08:05 PM
New Friend Casper Ledi Introductions 2 05-24-2004 10:07 AM
Poll: Have you ever lost an aikido friend or teacher to death? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 12 06-07-2003 07:03 AM
Friend or foe Bruce Baker Spiritual 29 09-17-2002 07:21 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:05 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate