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Old 06-07-2006, 03:12 PM   #26
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Poll: Which quality would you rather see in your own aikido?

You can't have effective softeness without being strong.
So of course STRONG.

Nagababa

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Old 06-07-2006, 03:38 PM   #27
billybob
 
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Re: Poll: Which quality would you rather see in your own aikido?

Quote:
This is a misconstructed question. Soft is the only effective way to be strong if one is talking about aiki. I could know a guy out and be as quite relaxed. People who have conventional udeas of strength are usually just tight.Anyone close to as strong will nuetralize them.
- G. Ledyard Sensei.

Sensei!! I must praise Jun for his poorly constructed question. For not only has he encouraged you to give this excellent and informative bit of information, but also to be concise!!!!!

( I live on the coast opposite yours and sincerely pray you forget this by the next time I see you )



david
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Old 06-08-2006, 05:32 AM   #28
Mark Freeman
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Re: Poll: Which quality would you rather see in your own aikido?

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Hey, Nick -- I thought the White Rose was the symbol of purity and virtue.
Not in Nick's mucky hands it isn't

Quote:
The English are just like the Irish. The only thing they like doing more than fighting other people is fighting each other.
And the problem is....?

regards

Mark
p.s. I voted 'soft' to the paradoxical question

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 06-08-2006, 10:26 AM   #29
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Poll: Which quality would you rather see in your own aikido?

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
The English are just like the Irish. The only thing they like doing more than fighting other people is fighting each other.
And the problem is....?
The ... French?

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Old 06-08-2006, 11:36 AM   #30
Mark Freeman
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Re: Poll: Which quality would you rather see in your own aikido?

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
The ... French?

LOL touche Erick

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 06-08-2006, 05:58 PM   #31
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Poll: Which quality would you rather see in your own aikido?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
You can't have effective softeness without being strong.
So of course STRONG.
This depends on what you are calling strong. The ability to lift heavy weights or bench press large amounts, no that is not necessary. Having good core strength is necessary. Having very good connective tissue strength is necessary. But what many people think of as "being strong" is not necessary.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 06-08-2006, 06:56 PM   #32
Mark Freeman
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Re: Poll: Which quality would you rather see in your own aikido?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
This depends on what you are calling strong. The ability to lift heavy weights or bench press large amounts, no that is not necessary. Having good core strength is necessary. Having very good connective tissue strength is necessary. But what many people think of as "being strong" is not necessary.
George,

there seems to be a common thread running though some of the sections here. But then that isn't too surprising. If you don't have good core / connective tissue strength, you can't make use of the power inherent in softness/aiki.

These threads weave an interesting tapestry of the aikido world as it is ( at least for us here on the forums ) today. Some of the core priciples of aikido are simple, but understanding is hard won, constant practice in aiki priciples are the way to get further up the mountain.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 06-08-2006, 09:11 PM   #33
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Poll: Which quality would you rather see in your own aikido?

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
George,

there seems to be a common thread running though some of the sections here. But then that isn't too surprising. If you don't have good core / connective tissue strength, you can't make use of the power inherent in softness/aiki.

These threads weave an interesting tapestry of the aikido world as it is ( at least for us here on the forums ) today. Some of the core priciples of aikido are simple, but understanding is hard won, constant practice in aiki priciples are the way to get further up the mountain.

regards,

Mark
Some of the very softest people you'd ever want to train with would be the Systema folks. They do constant conditioning designed to build that core strength. Slow, ultra slow pushups, situps, and squats while doing every breath pattern one could imagine. The focus is on strength in the connective tissue not bulking up. They are extremely flxible but hard as rocks at the same time.

I have heard a number of senior Aikido teachers say that lifting weights, for example, is not good for Aikido. Since there is actually a very wide range of waht constitutes "lifting weights" I am assuming that they primarily mean heavy lifting for bulking up rather than core strength resistance training.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:47 AM   #34
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Poll: Which quality would you rather see in your own aikido?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
Some of the very softest people you'd ever want to train with would be the Systema folks. They do constant conditioning designed to build that core strength. Slow, ultra slow pushups, situps, and squats while doing every breath pattern one could imagine. The focus is on strength in the connective tissue not bulking up. They are extremely flxible but hard as rocks at the same time.

I have heard a number of senior Aikido teachers say that lifting weights, for example, is not good for Aikido. Since there is actually a very wide range of waht constitutes "lifting weights" I am assuming that they primarily mean heavy lifting for bulking up rather than core strength resistance training.
I once read a physical description of a particular Marine D.I. in a book (the title of which escapes me at the moment). Most of the description brought to mind the likeness of Lee Ermey in my mind ( the quintessential cultivator of the D.I. image), but it finished with something like this:

"He was trim, tight, and could cut you in half like a snapped tension wire."

I find this image of power very suggestive for aikido, its quiet but devastating potential, unleashing a nearly unstoppable power by releasing its tension, rather than applying additive force.

BTW, if you doubt the reality of the last phrase in the quoted description, go study carrier trapwire accidents. It will make you shudder.

Cordially,
Erick Mead
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Old 06-09-2006, 10:36 AM   #35
billybob
 
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Re: Poll: Which quality would you rather see in your own aikido?

Soft strength is poorly understood.

"Hit him, if he isn't open." --- seems to be the 'hard', or 'martial' answer.

Wrong!! Any position taken by the opponent has its inherent weakness. We have
only to exploit this. It is NOT a deep secret, it is a simple truth. In many ways the
women I train with are superior in that they are fine with humbly taking the openings
offered them by uke, and don't try to dominate, decide ahead of time, or force anything.

They are where uke's strength is not.

Complicating this, or getting caught up in the 'trappings' of social interaction and human hierarchy I liken to what a Navy instructor called 'The Math Teacher Ego'. Math is easy, math is fun - unless the teacher just wants to show you how smart they are, and not share their knowledge with you.

Applying our own greatest strength against the opponent's greatest weakness is as simple as you allow it to be.

fwiw

David
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