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Old 05-24-2006, 07:33 AM   #1
justinmaceachern
Dojo: St. george
Location: new Brunswick
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 98
Canary Islands
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uke vs nage

Hey guys wassup. i as just wondering something. have you guys ever regret the fact of being able to perform ukemi well. The reason I ask is IME the better your abitlity to fall the less nage you perform. For some reason instructers will expose your abitlity to fall and kinda forget about your ability to perform aikido. It gets to the point where people asks me if I even nknow aikido.
So I guess my question is, how to deal with this situation, My ukemi and nage are strong. And this year I will be going to a traditional school in novascotia where they train hard. I am trying to aoid a situation where i show up with great ukemi and weak nage skills
Well thanks a lot fo your time.

Humbaly yours Justin MacEachern
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Old 05-24-2006, 09:27 AM   #2
akiy
 
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Re: uke vs nage

Quote:
Justin MacEachern wrote:
have you guys ever regret the fact of being able to perform ukemi well.
Nope. On the contrary, I'm still very much actively working on improving my ukemi, no matter how "good" it may currently be. The more fully I can receive ukemi from experienced people, the more fully I can feel their aikido/budo through my body. There is no substitution for direct transmission, I'll say...
Quote:
The reason I ask is IME the better your abitlity to fall the less nage you perform.
In my mind and experience, there is no difference between uke and nage. The same principles of aikido pervade both "roles," so being in either "role" informs my aikido training.

Contrary to your title, I don't think there's anything "versus" between the "roles" of uke and nage. Seeing them as such, I think, sets up a context in which the exploration of their informing each other becomes difficult, if not impossible.
Quote:
So I guess my question is, how to deal with this situation
If I'm understanding you correctly, there's no need to "deal" with this situation as there's no problem, per se.
Quote:
My ukemi and nage are strong.
It sounds like you have nothing to worry about, then.

-- Jun

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Old 05-24-2006, 10:16 AM   #3
Mato-san
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Re: uke vs nage

Feeling ukemi is priceless, in some dojo you will not be permitted to engage in the application until you can feel it. I really enjoy ukemi. And you have to agree ukemi really spells out the intricate details of a technique for you. PRICELESS! No VS about it! For me anyways.

Before you drive or steer your vehicle, you must first start the engine, release the brake and find gear!
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:25 AM   #4
kaishaku
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: uke vs nage

Quote:
Justin MacEachern wrote:
Hey guys wassup. i as just wondering something. have you guys ever regret the fact of being able to perform ukemi well.
Yeah, I have a tendency to not mind rolling or falling when it'd probably be better to post a hand or foot, or shift my weight, to prevent being thrown entirely. I don't think it will be that difficult to retrain this though.
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:37 AM   #5
justinmaceachern
Dojo: St. george
Location: new Brunswick
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Re: uke vs nage

Thanks guys, i guess what i was getting at was, where i am at there is not enough students that can even perform ukemi. So intern my ukemi is showcased more then my nage. This leaves at a spot where out of ervery 10 classes i only do the nage part once. It is frustrating to me because i dont realy see the improvment i should be, because i fall so much. But ukemi is ann art all in itself. Thank you guys
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:46 AM   #6
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Re: uke vs nage

Quote:
Justin MacEachern wrote:
Thanks guys, i guess what i was getting at was, where i am at there is not enough students that can even perform ukemi. So intern my ukemi is showcased more then my nage. This leaves at a spot where out of every 10 classes i only do the nage part once. It is frustrating to me because i dont realy see the improvment i should be, because i fall so much. But ukemi is ann art all in itself. Thank you guys
Sounds like a strange approach to me. We would not anyone start learning techniques before he stared learning Ukemi. One would have to be uke for about 50% of his time, at any level. If a beginner can not take the Ukemi, Tori will assist him and be considerate with the throw, and aware of safety. An experienced student may also join and show the beginner how to fall properly. But we do not have a situation with a person doing only one role (Uke or Tori) throughout a practice (Sensei may be an exception, but sometimes he gives Uke example too).

Amir
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Old 05-24-2006, 11:44 AM   #7
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
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Re: uke vs nage

I agree with Jun, uke and nage are two sides of the same aikido coin. There is an equal opportunity to learn in both roles. There also is learning when you are in a group waiting for your turn, plenty of opportunity to observe the technique and how each individual moves.

A win win win situation, I'd say.

regards,

Mark

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Old 05-24-2006, 11:59 AM   #8
justinmaceachern
Dojo: St. george
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Re: uke vs nage

You see the people in my old class did ukemi but not very well. so i figured where i was so strong in my ukemi that they would let me be the nauge. I guess it comes down to the intructer. Now I am looking foward to going to nova scotia and training with Patrick Cassidy. I did some reserch on him. His teacher was an uechidechi of saito sensei. There i think is where intesn training starts for me.
thanks for all of your opinions. I hope you all have a nice day.
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:05 PM   #9
arjandevries
Dojo: Ima Juku
Location: Amersfoort
Join Date: May 2004
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Netherlands
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Re: uke vs nage

You cannot practise ukemi enough. Yesterday I had the uppertunity to practise and I noticed my ukemi got a little rusty. So, I have to do something about it!
It also is a reason why Aikido is so interesting! In martial arts like Taekwondo there is no ukemi part! There is only practise on technique.
But instead of taking hits when you do not perform the techniques you have the change to practise something very beautifull, the art of ukemi!

Arjan
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:59 PM   #10
Qatana
 
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Re: uke vs nage

Justin, I don't understand. if sensei uses you as demo uke, don't you Then go train with a partner? And aren't you throwing them just as many times as they are throwing you?
After I am demo uke I sometimes have my partner uke first, whether or not I outrank them, so I can see if I remembered what sensei did to me just by feel.Sometimes I have them nage first, so I can figure it out a little more slowly than "attack>splat!"
But everybody takes turns, nobody does Only technique or Only ukemi. Gotta do both.

Q
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:06 AM   #11
justinmaceachern
Dojo: St. george
Location: new Brunswick
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Re: uke vs nage

just to let you know that they do perform falls in taekwondo. but not like aikido, but they do fall. back to my other part. My old sensei knew that i could fall well so he used me ass a tool. Instead of me gettin thrown then getting up and being the nage. I just kept being thrown and had to practice my nage on my own time. i went from 4th kyu to 3 kyu with out doing randori, being nage or anything. The only time i ever did nage was on my own time with freinds in my basement or when i actually went for my 3rd kyu. as far as class i was just an instrument. And you know it is instructors like this that tend to turn people off. Now keep in mind that my old insrtuctors is very good at what he does, he just kind a turned to a new path.
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Old 05-25-2006, 12:04 PM   #12
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: uke vs nage

That's a shame. I don't think I would stay in a dojo where the actual practice time was that unbalanced for me. Maybe that's selfish, but that's pretty much the way I feel.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 05-25-2006, 12:55 PM   #13
justinmaceachern
Dojo: St. george
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Re: uke vs nage

thats the way i felt Ron, so I left.
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