Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-05-2006, 05:42 PM   #1
Alan_Lamb
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 9
Offline
Just needed a second opinion

Hello, my names Alan, im 19. I have mild cerebal palsey. I call it mild because to be honest, compared to some people with cp, I have it good.
My cp means that I have slight trembling in my arms and I walk differently to the able folk. That's basically it!
I've always wanted to learn Aikido, i've been researching it for years, and I recently found a place that taught the art near me. I know that Aikido is one of the most difficult of the arts to master, but it was one of the arts that I actually smiled at, just watching it.
I was telling myself to do this, i've never had something to say 'yeah, I did that, all for me.'
So I went allong to the lesson, an the sensei allowed me to watch. I was watching carefully, every hand movement and step, and I believe that I could do what they were doing. After the two hour lesson, the teacher approached me and told me that I wouldn't be able to learn because I am disabled.
To be honest, I was and still am heartbroken, and was wondering about your opinions of a guy with cp learning Aikido? Thank you for reading..
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2006, 05:51 PM   #2
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,211
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Alan, you can do this. You can adapt aikido technique to your own body rythym. Trust me. In gassho
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2006, 05:54 PM   #3
Alan_Lamb
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 9
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Thank you very much I just don't think their is another Aikido school for miles of my location, but I'm trying not to give up
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2006, 05:55 PM   #4
thomas_dixon
Location: Florida, USA
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 185
United_States
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

http://www.aikiweb.com/search/

I hope that sums up my feelings about the matter :-)

Enjoy aikido Alan :-P
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2006, 05:58 PM   #5
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

I agree. Look for another dojo if you possibly can. If blind people can do, and teach, and people in wheelchairs, and people with neurological disabilities, and behavioral, and hearing impaired can all train in aikido, then you can,too.
Check the dojo search engine here on aikiweb, and welcome.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2006, 06:00 PM   #6
Alan_Lamb
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 9
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Thank you very much, I mean that from the bottom of my heart. And I did find another dojo that I could attend, a bit far away, but damn if i'll let that stop me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2006, 06:18 PM   #7
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,670
United_States
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Quote:
Alan Lamb wrote:
After the two hour lesson, the teacher approached me and told me that I wouldn't be able to learn because I am disabled.
Translation: "I don't know how to teach disabled students, but can't admit my limitations."

Go find someone open enough to teach you.

Welcome.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2006, 07:54 PM   #8
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
Location: Oceanside, California
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,114
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Dear Alan,

I train with a 62 year old man who has had one hip, both knees, and one elbow replaced after years of military parachuting, a 37 year old who suffers cystic fibrosis and just underwent a double lung transplant and they both practice hard and well. Neither is a 25 year old nidan, but they can put the wood on you in a throw and take as well as they give. It just takes a teacher willing to try and some heart on the part of the student. I think Lynn Seiser is right and another teacher might be the answer, but maybe, just maybe, this teacher was testing your commitment and you should go back. From a distance no one can tell, so go with your gut on that issue.

Go find a dojo, train hard, have fun and don't give up!

Best wishes,

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2006, 02:06 AM   #9
rottunpunk
Dojo: koteikan aikido centre
Location: great britain
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 74
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

yeah. dont train at that dojo, sounds like the guy is a bit up himself.
its good that your willing to travel to another one, shows your dedicated, i hope that dojo suits you better.

the japanese look more highly on those who train hard despite physical etc. problems. im sure you'll do fine.

good luck
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2006, 06:04 AM   #10
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Alan,
I'm really sorry to hear that after much research into the art of aikido, no doubt coming across O'Sensei philosophy in the process. Aikido is a force for good in the world and it is for everyone.
It's a shame the first aikido teacher you have contact with is one without the good grace or humanity to invite you to train. His loss Alan not yours!
A suggestion is if you can find one of the 'real' aikido teachers out there, practice for as long as you can. I'm sure at some point you will grade. Take your white belt to the refusenik teacher, and offer it to him as a gift.
It may (or may not) encourage him to examine himself.
If he was 'testing' you as someone suggested you will have passed the test. But not with him

regards, and good luck,
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2006, 07:05 AM   #11
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,983
Japan
Online
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Quote:
Alan Lamb wrote:
Hello, my names Alan, im 19. I have mild cerebal palsey. I call it mild because to be honest, compared to some people with cp, I have it good.
My cp means that I have slight trembling in my arms and I walk differently to the able folk. That's basically it!
I've always wanted to learn Aikido, i've been researching it for years, and I recently found a place that taught the art near me. I know that Aikido is one of the most difficult of the arts to master, but it was one of the arts that I actually smiled at, just watching it.
I was telling myself to do this, i've never had something to say 'yeah, I did that, all for me.'
So I went allong to the lesson, an the sensei allowed me to watch. I was watching carefully, every hand movement and step, and I believe that I could do what they were doing. After the two hour lesson, the teacher approached me and told me that I wouldn't be able to learn because I am disabled.
To be honest, I was and still am heartbroken, and was wondering about your opinions of a guy with cp learning Aikido? Thank you for reading..
Hello Mr Lamb,

Well, if you lived in Hiroshima were able to travel to my dojo, I can assure you that you would be welcomed. However, if a prospective member has any disability, we insist on knowing all the medical details. Why? Because of the conditions set by our insurers. Because we train in a school dojo, all our members have to be insured against death or injury while training and if a member has a clear disability, the limitations that this might impose on his/her training have to be made clear to begin with.

You do not say where you are from, but I am thinking of possible reasons why the first instructor refused you permission to practise. I trained for ten years in the UK and I believe that the law has been tightened regarding matters like insurance in dojos. The indemnity declaration required in many aikido dojos round the world is not binding under UK law. Thus, if you were injured during training and sued the dojo for being negligent, the fact that you had signed an imdemnity statement would not count. But your medical condition, a previous medical condition, might be an issue here.

In Japan, by contrast, the law pretty well stacks the cards in favour of the dojo. So, if you sign a statement indemnifying the dojo against damages for death or injury, this will be valid, but the insurance company will make payments for loss of incomne etc. However the insurance company will be unwilling to pay out if there is a possibility that a previous medical condition contributed to the injury.

Sorry to go on like this, but all the posts so far have painted the first instructor in totally black colours and I think this is not quite right.

Finally, if you went to an Aikikai dojo in a federation affiliated to the I.A.F., I suggest that you PM me with details.

Best wishes, and I hope you find a dojo where you can train well.

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2006, 07:23 AM   #12
Alan_Lamb
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 9
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

I would like to say again thank you all very much for your support. I was thinking about going back to this dojo, to train with the other sensei's. The annoying thing is that he wasn't even the chief instructor, and the opinion of they guy in charge wasn't even asked.
Well the nearest dojo is now quite a distance, but im sure I can ask my brother-in-law to drive me
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2006, 08:09 AM   #13
Dirk Hanss
 
Dirk Hanss's Avatar
Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
Location: Merzkirchen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 471
Germany
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Hi Alan,
if you really want to do something, you probably just have to insist.

It is not fashionable now, but some teachers might refuse to teach anyone, until the student proves to be serious.

So you really can ask the same or other instructors again and again. You might need to offer to pay for your own insurance, to sign a disclaimer or whatever.

Nevertheless if you train, you have take responsibility for yourself. Even if sensei says "everybody do this or that", you have to think about, if it is good for you. Usually you can do everything just a bit smoother orjust a bit differently. If there is a regular exercise, you think, you cannot do at all, you have to talk to the instructor.

Usually instructors do not want to have students, who choose, what they want to do, but if there are students with limitations by age or any health aspects, they do accept these. Some might not, but what I have seen only when they claim just to teach for their own pleasure and select only very few elite students, and there is enough space in other dojo near by.

Kind regards

Dirk
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2006, 09:46 AM   #14
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

I agree that you can learn aikido, however, there may be limits that need to be imposed due to your CP. I have taught one CP student for a brief time who came to me periodically through the local college system. Frankly, his rolls scared the hell out of me due to his spasticity. You may be limited as to what you can do ukemi wise. Your technique will be somewhat of a challenge for you if you have a lot of spasticity. However, you can learn the techniques and I think your physical issues should be taken into consideration with full disclosure of your limitations and how your condition affects your body's ability to move and respond so that you don't get injured.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2006, 05:37 PM   #15
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Quote:
Alan Lamb wrote:
I would like to say again thank you all very much for your support. I was thinking about going back to this dojo, to train with the other sensei's. The annoying thing is that he wasn't even the chief instructor, and the opinion of they guy in charge wasn't even asked.
Yeah, for everything a bit out of the ordinary it is much better to talk to the main teacher.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2006, 05:46 PM   #16
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 608
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Quote:
John Riggs wrote:
I agree that you can learn aikido, however, there may be limits that need to be imposed due to your CP. I have taught one CP student for a brief time who came to me periodically through the local college system. Frankly, his rolls scared the hell out of me due to his spasticity. You may be limited as to what you can do ukemi wise. Your technique will be somewhat of a challenge for you if you have a lot of spasticity. However, you can learn the techniques and I think your physical issues should be taken into consideration with full disclosure of your limitations and how your condition affects your body's ability to move and respond so that you don't get injured.

I agree that if he was just nage, it would take less energy and he could stay on his feet and be safer.

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2006, 11:58 PM   #17
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
Location: Oceanside, California
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,114
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

My view changes somewhat now that Alan mentions that it was an assistant instructor who refused him. If he still has an interest in that dojo, then he should speak with the Chief Instructor. I can't imagine an assistant turning away a student in our dojo. Our Chief Instructor is the sole individual with that authority. I would recommend finding another dojo after this latest bit of information has come to light. Just doesn't sound like a good place to train.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2006, 06:58 AM   #18
Pauliina Lievonen
 
Pauliina Lievonen's Avatar
Dojo: Jiki Shin Kan Utrecht
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 559
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

As an assistant instructor of sorts myself... I'd be way out of line turning away students from the dojo.

To the original poster - I hope you'll keep us posted about how your aikido adventure goes. Don't give up.

kvaak
Pauliina
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2006, 10:47 AM   #19
Alan_Lamb
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 9
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Yeah, but the cheif instructor was present. I believe him and another instructor were practicing for a presentation with bokken, and they left the class early. One of them asked if I was going to join, when I said 'hopefully' he didn't seem that bothered.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2006, 11:26 AM   #20
Pauliina Lievonen
 
Pauliina Lievonen's Avatar
Dojo: Jiki Shin Kan Utrecht
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 559
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Have you been to see the other dojo yet? Just curious?

kvaak
Pauliina
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2006, 12:05 PM   #21
Alan_Lamb
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 9
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Not yet, apparently the next dojo to me would be a bit of a distance away, so i've got to plan a journey to get there in as less time as possible. I live in Dagenham, and according to the dojo search, the next dojo would be in Braintree. Tis a bit of a trek, but im sure if I route plan, shouldn't be too much of an issue.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2006, 12:56 PM   #22
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,268
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Alan,

A couple of thoughts,

--Go for it. We have an aikidoist in N. Florida who not only trains, but was planning on opening his own dojo, last time I talked to him. His spirit overcomes his debility quite handily, thank you very much.

--Like Peter, I don't want to jump on the first instructor (especially since he wasn't the decision-maker--quite a pertinent piece of information.) He may have been concerned with safety/liability issues. I've had reservations on the mat about training with pregnant women myself, perhaps not the most PC attitude today, but I'd rather be dunned by thhe righteous than sorry for hurting someone. Your own persistence here may be persuasive (and he might not even say no, himself.) Were it me, I'd welcome you into the dojo, but I'd want a doctor's note on what to expect and take special care of/for, again, as Peter mentioned.

--I did a two-minute search, so caveat emptor, but turning you away is probably against the law. For your reference (and there were plenty more in Google which I didn't click on):

http://fchr.state.fl.us/faq.htm

Q. What protection does Florida law provide against discrimination?
A. It is against the law to discriminate in:
.... Evaluating an application for MEMBERSHIP IN PRIVATE CLUBS on the basis of race, color, religion, gender, national origin, handicap, age above the age of 21, or marital status.

GANBATTE!

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2006, 02:28 PM   #23
Dirk Hanss
 
Dirk Hanss's Avatar
Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
Location: Merzkirchen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 471
Germany
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote:
http://fchr.state.fl.us/faq.htm

Q. What protection does Florida law provide against discrimination?
A. It is against the law to discriminate in:
.... Evaluating an application for MEMBERSHIP IN PRIVATE CLUBS on the basis of race, color, religion, gender, national origin, handicap, age above the age of 21, or marital status.

GANBATTE!
Hi Don,
somestime legal steps are fine, but the result might be, Alan can be a member of the club, but does not have access to lessons, due to medical reasons.
Not necessarily in aikido, but definitely in paragliding clubs - or do you think any court would force them to take anyone to a jump regardless of age and medical status?

But Alan, yes you could try and quote this Florida protection law. It might help.

Dirk
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2006, 02:30 PM   #24
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

I do not think legal stuff will get Alan anywhere nearer to what he wants. One should also realise that teaching handicapped is something difficult. It should not be expected of everyone who teaches aikido classes, me thinks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2006, 03:11 PM   #25
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,268
Offline
Re: Just needed a second opinion

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote:
I do not think legal stuff will get Alan anywhere nearer to what he wants.
It does seem sort of a strong-arm tactic, doesn't it.

Quote:
One should also realise that teaching handicapped is something difficult. It should not be expected of everyone who teaches aikido classes, me thinks.
Ah! One of the rare occasions we disagree, ma'am. We make different accomodations for big folk, small folk, old folk, young folk, and folk that climb on rock...why not challenged folk?

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Seminar with Frank Doran, Shihan - Aug. 8-10, 2014 at Sunset Cliff's Aikido, near San Diego's finest beaches



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mae Ukemi - advice needed doronin Training 14 01-25-2006 10:22 AM
Aikido Registrars Needed ronsiv Marketplace 0 01-15-2006 05:53 PM
opinion needed WW-squared General 13 12-19-2004 06:03 AM
In other's opinion.... chrisward General 43 12-17-2004 02:33 AM
Poll: In your opinion, what ratio of "martial" and "art" is aikido? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 18 05-15-2004 03:32 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:23 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate