Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Open Discussions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-04-2006, 10:21 AM   #126
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Don't worry Mark, I think it's headed there promptly...



Take it all with a grain of salt (in the wound).

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
 
Old 05-04-2006, 10:21 AM   #127
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Hiroaki Izumi wrote:
To paraphrase one of my Shihans: "Strong Ki by itself is useless against really good technique."

Try breaking a real rock with only Ki and no real technique. You need some Ki development but you also need a lot of good technique. Otherwise, you will only break it with luck. We, like professional golfers and other pro athletes, practice to sustain consistency in our actions. If you break a rock with your strike once, you should be able to break a similar rock each and every time since you have the consistency. If you rely on Ki and luck in getting the right technique, you will probably be inconsistent and not be able to break the rock each and every time.
I agree with that, insofar as that particular facet of ki is concerned.

Regards,

Mike
 
Old 05-04-2006, 10:24 AM   #128
Dennis Hooker
Dojo: Shindai Dojo, Orlando Fl.
Location: Orlando Florida
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 456
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Hi Dennis:

I . I don't know who "Master Chan" is. If you mean Chan Poi, though, he's just middle of the road at best, compared to what's out there.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
Well Mike that is who I am talking about and if you consider him middle of the road all can say is damn!

Dennis

Dennis Hooker: (DVD) Zanshin and Ma-ai in Aikido
https://www.createspace.com/238049

www.shindai.com
 
Old 05-04-2006, 10:32 AM   #129
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
Sure enough Dan, and that what is "was" all about for us and we conditioned well.

Now days I don't let them hit me. They may think they are hitting me but the energy is going somewhere other than into my body and usually it drops them to the floor. I see that Mike also does not study Aikido. That was an assumption I wrongly made. I never intend to stand in one place and stop anyone when it is so much easer to simply move to right place and let them stop themselves.

Take care
Dennis
Thats the idea for "using" it and we agree. I was reffering to training it but yet remaining safe as you bring them along. Its a fine line between accepting an exchange and banging and rolling VS crossing the line, and with most guys it is easily understood. I suspect its always been that way.

Cheers
Dan
 
Old 05-04-2006, 10:33 AM   #130
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
Have you ever gone full out with a competent and skilled person from another martial art who don't really care about your concepts? Wrapping the internal organs in Ki is a mighty flowery concept but if you get hit by the right person the wrapping is likely to come undone. I have not trained in any of the "harder arts" in 30 years. Aikido took over and for good reason. Self preservation, I am over 60 now and I don't intend to get hit again.
As long as Hooker Sensei doesn't hit ME -- -- I'll have the presumption to chime in behind him on this one, since I majored in it. Some people can do things like this, but it is not in the least bit easy -- or fun -- to accomplish.

The Chinese systems of Gong-fu, exemplified in the Shaolin disciplines (still extant) are no great mystery in how they teach such techniques (if you call them that), but simply practical, and brutally applied knowledge, learned in exceedingly rigorous, and merciless training.

Ch'i/qi/ki is the Chinese material metaphor for energy transfer, potential and otherwise, which physics would describe in parametric variable terms -- and disregarding the precise states of energy -- with a vector field potential. That doesn' t really matter, except to point out that both modern physics and traditional Chinese empirical knowledge are capable fo talking about the same thing -- just with different boxes and labels.

Some Chinese texts (of which I have only read translated excerpts, but even so) for training in this kind of Ch'i manipulation, do not describe this happening because of superior mental focus, access to higher powers or enlightened moral fiber.

It is forcibly trained into monks who starting from the age of about eight, whose bodies are literally, beaten, molded and shaped into a body that is physically much tougher and reactive to applied force than is the case for an untrained, unmodified physiology. It is physiology as much as it is psychology and kinesiology.

If you are strong enough -- in the right way -- and trained -- in the right way -- in how to absorb the force of landing, you can jump off the top of a six foot ladder (or higher) without injury. If you are a mighty bear of a man and untrained in how to absorb the shock of impact in your own legs and body to decelarate in a tightly controlled manner on contact with the ground, you will likely break a leg. It is just like sutemi. A newbie can break a short rib -- Oh SOOO easily.

There are some good films on the present day Shaolin training that give some hints of the rigor of the system, a good example being a swung two-by-four equivalent strike to the midriff). Basically, after being beaten time and again without relent they learn to absorb some of the the force of a blow by reacting with the body to distribute the energy of the impact over the widest (and deepest) possible area. There is just no way to learn this except by getting hit and hammered a good ten-thousand plus times at progressively greater energy. Fun, fun ....

It is not magic. If you have the desire to do this you can do so at your leisure. Home Depot has a running special on two-by-fours.

I just prefer not to get hit. Especially by Hooker Sensei

Now --- Nikkyo anyone?

Cordially,
Erick Mead
 
Old 05-04-2006, 10:37 AM   #131
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
Well Mike that is who I am talking about and if you consider him middle of the road all can say is damn!
Ask him why he packed his bags and left Boston sometime.

I think he's pretty talented and a neat old guy, Dennis.... so don't get me wrong. However, I've seen a lot of professional Chinese martial artists and while Chan Poi spent longer training skills than most of us westerners did, he's not top echelon.

FWIW

Mike

Last edited by Mike Sigman : 05-04-2006 at 10:43 AM.
 
Old 05-04-2006, 10:40 AM   #132
Jim Sorrentino
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Jim Sorrentino's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia, Aikido Shobukan Dojo
Location: Washington, DC
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 244
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Ron,
Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
How do you train the skills you speak of...except by actually at some point taking the hits...taking the throws...and learning how to absorb (transmute?) that power?
In Uechi-ryu karatedo, part of the training included arm-rubbing, arm-pounding, and leg-pounding. Two practitioners would stand in san-chin, the basic stance of Uechi-ryu (from the kata of the same name). In arm-rubbing, the practitioners would stand adjacently to each other. In arm-pounding and leg-pounding, the practitioners face each other directly. Whether rubbing or striking, the goal was to build up the ability to give and receive. My teacher, Bob Galeone, was quick to point out that if you bruised too early or too severely, you would not be able to train for a while. The point was to find and steadily increase one's limits.

Also, when practicing the san-chin kata in class, the teacher would test the student's form by kicking, pressing, punching, and slapping various parts of the student's body, while the student maintained the stance. Again, the goal was to expand one's limits. A beginner would receive a much gentler test than an experienced student. Blood in the urine was a sign of injury, and like any other injury, the student was expected to take care of it and advise the instructor accordingly.

I spent most of the summer of 1981 in Okinawa training at the dojo of Kanei Uechi-sensei, as well as a smaller dojo run by Ken Nakamatsu-sensei. I was a shodan in Uechi-ryu at that time. What impressed me most about these training methods, as well the striking practice on traditional makiwara, was the emphasis on regular and moderate practice.

The traditional Okinawan makiwara is a long board, preferably a 4x4 shaved down to a 1x4, with the thick end planted in a hole filled with gravel. The thin end is wrapped with straw or an old obi. At a dojo opening, I saw one instructor, R. Tomoyose-sensei, strike a makiwara relatively slowly with a one-knuckle punch, and bend it back significantly. None of the other yudansha were able to bend it nearly as much. Tomoyose-sensei was a noted calligrapher, and I was able to examine his hands pretty closely. They were strong, but showed no signs of scarring or deformity. And I have a sample of calligraphy that he did the summer I visited --- it's quite precisely brushed. Tomoyose-sensei insisted that there was no secret to his power. It was simply the result of daily practice, which he did in such a way that he could make steady progress. "Secrets?!?" he said to me one day, as we were driving to Naha, "I have no secrets. I wish I did! But it's just practice, every day."

Jim
 
Old 05-04-2006, 10:42 AM   #133
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
The Chinese systems of Gong-fu, exemplified in the Shaolin disciplines (still extant) are no great mystery in how they teach such techniques (if you call them that), but simply practical, and brutally applied knowledge, learned in exceedingly rigorous, and merciless training.

Ch'i/qi/ki is the Chinese material metaphor for energy transfer, potential and otherwise, which physics would describe in parametric variable terms --
All I can hope is that you're careful to say these are your opinions and don't reflect the knowledge of your teacher, Erick. Because right now you're posting the name of a school while you're showing to a number of readers on the forum that you don't know what you're talking about.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
 
Old 05-04-2006, 10:51 AM   #134
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Nice post Jim. Part of my problem is not enough daily training. That's on me....

Best,
Ron (I've seen clips of that Uechi ryu training...)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
 
Old 05-04-2006, 10:52 AM   #135
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Jim Sorrentino wrote:
In arm-pounding and leg-pounding, the practitioners face each other directly. Whether rubbing or striking, the goal was to build up the ability to give and receive. My teacher, Bob Galeone, was quick to point out that if you bruised too early or too severely, you would not be able to train for a while. The point was to find and steadily increase one's limits.
Kotei kitai. I did this on Okinawa when I studied there, but.... (read on)
Quote:
The traditional Okinawan makiwara is a long board, preferably a 4x4 shaved down to a 1x4, with the thick end planted in a hole filled with gravel. The thin end is wrapped with straw or an old obi. At a dojo opening, I saw one instructor, R. Tomoyose-sensei, strike a makiwara relatively slowly with a one-knuckle punch, and bend it back significantly. None of the other yudansha were able to bend it nearly as much. Tomoyose-sensei was a noted calligrapher, and I was able to examine his hands pretty closely. They were strong, but showed no signs of scarring or deformity. And I have a sample of calligraphy that he did the summer I visited --- it's quite precisely brushed. Tomoyose-sensei insisted that there was no secret to his power. It was simply the result of daily practice, which he did in such a way that he could make steady progress. "Secrets?!?" he said to me one day, as we were driving to Naha, "I have no secrets. I wish I did! But it's just practice, every day."
I watched my instructor, Seiyu Shinjo, hit a makiwara one night (it was before practice and I was there hitting the makiwara... I used to practice many hours a day when I had time)... he bent it WAY back and just stood there holding it. That's the power we're referring to a "kokyu power", BTW.

George Mattson, the American proponent of Uechi Ryu, says Kanei Uechi (I think I've got the right Uechi, but I don't want to dig up my notes, so it might be Kambun Uechi) said that if you do Sanchin correctly, you don't need to toughen up on a makiwara. I understand what that means, now. I didn't then. That's part of the training I'm talking about. And it's part of a way of training the same stuff that Ueshiba did.

Regards,

Mike
 
Old 05-04-2006, 11:09 AM   #136
M. McPherson
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 39
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
George Mattson, the American proponent of Uechi Ryu, says Kanei Uechi (I think I've got the right Uechi, but I don't want to dig up my notes, so it might be Kambun Uechi) said that if you do Sanchin correctly, you don't need to toughen up on a makiwara.
I wouldn't worry about your notes: if Kanei said it, odds are that Kanbun gave it to him. As well, regarding the "conditioning," it's kotekitai for the arms, and ashikitai when referring to the legs. These terms might now differ between the various factions, but pre-schism (in the 'late 80's) these were the terms that many of the Okinawans used (Takara, Tomoyose, et alia).
 
Old 05-04-2006, 11:45 AM   #137
mriehle
 
mriehle's Avatar
Dojo: New School Aikido
Location: Stockton, CA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 320
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Actually, the reason the physical ki-tricks work is highly logical, just like a magic trick, once it's explained to you and you're shown how to do it. Just "letting yourself go" won't do it, not if you're ever going to use these skills in a martial art. And if you really have the abilities to do these things, you know what you're doing and why you're doing it.
This is absolutely true. But, while I agree with this statement I reserve the right to maintain my sense of wonder at how easy it is. It seems like it should be hard, then isn't. I just think that's way cool.

As for "letting yourself go", I have to say this is one of those things where words are guaranteed to give the wrong impression. There are definite, physical actions which a person must do in order to get these "tricks" to work. Some of them are obvious and easy to convey when teaching. Some of them are less obvious and sometimes require a little subterfuge to get people to do them.

So the visualizations aren't just about "letting go" and relaxing. They're also about getting you to do the right thing physically, sometimes in spite of yourself. If it were just about relaxing, you could use any old visualization at all. IME, you can give a person three different visualizations and - at most - two of them will work. Usually only one of them will.

The trick, as a teacher, is to then get them to notice what they are doing and learn to do that without the visualizations. IME, the visualizations eventually become a handicap. It's hard to stop and think about light flowing through your arm in a randori with four determined uke's trying to take you to the mat.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
I remember being in a small discussion group with a bunch of teachers of the Asian persuasion (I was the only native westerner there). The question came up by one guy that I've never forgotten. He wanted to know why westerners have such strange ideas about ki and how things work.... and he came out with the statement, "All the good teachers are like technical instructors and most of the westerners seem to be like art students". There is a logic to fullblown ki and how it works.... someone that really knows it can explain it.
You know, I'd have to say that's a fair criticism on some level.

Although I also have to point out that ki - and a lot of other aspects of MA training - are essentially non-verbal in their transmission. I don't remember where I first heard it, but I remember someone saying, "If you understand the explanation, you don't need it". I think that's a fair statement about a lot of our training.

But, that's what the exercises are for. The stuff that can't be explained can, I think, be shown and practiced. To use an analogy (which is surprisingly accurate, IME) from another discipline I participate in: running scales is boring, but you can't really understand how to play music until you do it for a while. People can explain in detail all kinds of stuff about harmony, etc., but until you actually hear it in a context where you can relate it to what you are doing it won't be meaningful to you.

One thing, though. I don't recall if it was you or Dan that made the point about needing a teacher to provide feedback, but that's a point I agree with wholeheartedly. There's a lot of this stuff where you can get the idea you're doing it right, then discover you aren't. Someone who has some idea of how to tell can often point out the small mistakes and make a huge difference in your training.

 
Old 05-04-2006, 11:49 AM   #138
Rocky Izumi
Dojo: GUST Aikido Club
Location: Salwa, Kuwait
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 381
Kuwait
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Hey, keep going guys, this is getting interesting and worthwhile listening in on. You might want to throw in some reference to Aikido or a line describing the implications for Aikido for those who will get upset about moving away from the topic.

Rock
 
Old 05-04-2006, 11:55 AM   #139
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Michael Riehle wrote:
One thing, though. I don't recall if it was you or Dan that made the point about needing a teacher to provide feedback, but that's a point I agree with wholeheartedly. There's a lot of this stuff where you can get the idea you're doing it right, then discover you aren't. Someone who has some idea of how to tell can often point out the small mistakes and make a huge difference in your training.
Yeah, but you need the *right* teacher, not just a teacher who says he knows it. On these forums I think a teacher who "knows how to do these things" should be able to post enough basic how-to's to satisfy the claims that he does know. That's why I've unsuccessfully tried for months to get Dan to explain some of the basic concepts, as a for instance.

"Ground-path" is cool, but most people can do that to some varying degree within less than an hour. "Undbendable arm" is a tricky example, because I've seen about 5 different ways to do it which will work but which avoid the ki idea. But I'm optimistic. I think things are changing for the better and I honestly feel pretty good about it.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
 
Old 05-04-2006, 11:59 AM   #140
Dennis Hooker
Dojo: Shindai Dojo, Orlando Fl.
Location: Orlando Florida
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 456
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

This is a good topic and perhaps should be split off onto another thread.

Dennis Hooker: (DVD) Zanshin and Ma-ai in Aikido
https://www.createspace.com/238049

www.shindai.com
 
Old 05-04-2006, 12:00 PM   #141
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Hiroaki Izumi wrote:
Hey, keep going guys, this is getting interesting and worthwhile listening in on. You might want to throw in some reference to Aikido or a line describing the implications for Aikido for those who will get upset about moving away from the topic.
I'm kind up in the air for the moment, Rocky. Even though some of this stuff sounds off-topic, it's not really, once someone understands that a lot of these skills are used in most Asian martial arts. The problem is really that a lot of Aikidoists aren't even aware of the basic skills, much less the broader topic of how the skills intertwine in Asian martial arts. The real show-stopper that has me paused are these recent revelations by Ellis Amdur and others that O-Sensei was filmed etc., doing actual power releases. Anyone who really understands these skills will know immediately that the inescapable conclusion is that Ueshiba had knowledge of FAR more of the ki-training things than we ever realized before. Frankly, it's sort of brought me to a standstill for a few days.

Regards,

Mike
 
Old 05-04-2006, 12:13 PM   #142
Dennis Hooker
Dojo: Shindai Dojo, Orlando Fl.
Location: Orlando Florida
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 456
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
On these forums I think a teacher who "knows how to do these things" should be able to post enough basic how-to's to satisfy the claims that he does know. Regards,

Mike Sigman
The problem as I see it Mike is that too many people talk a good game. If you give all the written instruction then that is all some folks want. Cyber Masters abound here in this web world. I have seen to many dojo where talk is the prime art. And damn if some of those folks can't put me to shame with the ability to talk the talk. I wish I had the gift of gab some of these people have. Also when you give so much away some people start to believe they have gained the knowledge on their own, through their own effort. However they have barley began their trip of Shu Ha Ri and because they have mental knowledge of the mechanics of the technique they believe they understand it. When they find out they are wrong is sometimes devastating to them. Some things are best given one on one.


Dennis

Dennis Hooker: (DVD) Zanshin and Ma-ai in Aikido
https://www.createspace.com/238049

www.shindai.com
 
Old 05-04-2006, 12:20 PM   #143
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
The problem as I see it Mike is that too many people talk a good game. If you give all the written instruction then that is all some folks want. Cyber Masters abound here in this web world. I have seen to many dojo where talk is the prime art. And damn if some of those folks can't put me to shame with the ability to talk the talk. I wish I had the gift of gab some of these people have. Also when you give so much away some people start to believe they have gained the knowledge on their own, through their own effort. However they have barley began their trip of Shu Ha Ri and because they have mental knowledge of the mechanics of the technique they believe they understand it. When they find out they are wrong is sometimes devastating to them. Some things are best given one on one.
I agree with you, Dennis. I like to go check people out and I have a reputation for doing it. But reading what people post on the internet at least gives me an idea of whether someone is worthwhile to visit or talk to. It's fairly easy to tell by what people say and what they don't say ... at least the general parameters of where they are. That's my only comment on that.

Insofar as people learning anything valuable from what is posted, I have seen too many times that it simply doesn't work. At best, posting things on the internet can give some people the general idea of which direction to go (which is a real boon, considering the amount of bogus info out there).

Regards,

Mike Sigman
 
Old 05-04-2006, 12:27 PM   #144
mriehle
 
mriehle's Avatar
Dojo: New School Aikido
Location: Stockton, CA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 320
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
That's why I've unsuccessfully tried for months to get Dan to explain some of the basic concepts, as a for instance.
Yes, well...

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
"Ground-path" is cool, but most people can do that to some varying degree within less than an hour. "Undbendable arm" is a tricky example, because I've seen about 5 different ways to do it which will work but which avoid the ki idea. But I'm optimistic. I think things are changing for the better and I honestly feel pretty good about it.
I don't recognize the name of the first exercise. Maybe I know it by a different name?

I used to have kind of an attitude about unbendable arm. "Parlor trick" was the word I used. I could do it, I could teach it, but I didn't regard it as important. Then I discovered two things about it:

1) Being able to do this one exercise could change a persons entire approach to Aikido. Suddenly there was ki in their Aikido in a way that there wasn't before.

2) Yep, there are ways to do this exercise that don't involve ki in the sense we usually talk about it. This was important because being able to recognize them allowed me to, um, "correct" some problems. Sometimes the correction involved asking someone not to come back to my dojo, but mostly it was changing the angle I came at it from for them. In one amusing case it was recognizing the effect the persons profession (carpenter) was having on his understanding of the exercise (In his case, no visualizations were necessary, ki was automatic once he understood what we were trying to accomplish )

At some point I realized that I could look across a room and "see" a persons ki. That was interesting because I quickly realized I wasn't seeing purple auras or any other mystic phenomena, I just could see that the ki was there, where it was going and what it's "attitude" was. I've spent a fair amount of time since then working out exactly what I'm looking at when I do that. There are definitely physical clues, some of which are obvious if you know what to look for, some more subtle, but still clearly visible.

That realization, though, explained a lot about why tricks like the "turning in" thing work. I'm aware of it when I "see" ki because of my training, but other people are perceiving the same things and responding to it. It really isn't magic or even new-age cosmic muffin stuff. It isn't really even special. I didn't learn how to do it, I just learned to be aware that I was doing it. Although it does beg the question when you are talking about psychology and ki whether there is ki in psychology or psychology in ki or both.

 
Old 05-04-2006, 12:35 PM   #145
Jim Sorrentino
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Jim Sorrentino's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia, Aikido Shobukan Dojo
Location: Washington, DC
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 244
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Mike and Murray,

I'm glad to run into a couple of other Uechi-ryu folks here! I met Shinjo Seiyu-sensei and his son, Kiyohide-sensei, while I was in Okinawa. Both were 100 miles of bad road.

I was fortunate to be pretty involved with aikido under Saotome-sensei by the time the Uechi-ryu political splits occurred.

Murray, I agree with you about the source of the makiwara quote. IMO, Kanei-sensei played a similar role in Uechi-ryu to that of the Ueshiba Kisshomaru-sensei in aikido --- which is a good thing for us, since both gentlemen made their fathers' arts more available to the world.

Ron, you're welcome! I'm glad it was useful.

Jim
 
Old 05-04-2006, 12:39 PM   #146
Dennis Hooker
Dojo: Shindai Dojo, Orlando Fl.
Location: Orlando Florida
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 456
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

[:

1) Being able to do this one exercise could change a persons entire approach to Aikido. Suddenly there was ki in their Aikido in a way that there wasn't before.


People blow this off as nothing and that bothers me a little. I worked with a guy in North Florida and I taught him this "trick". He was not into Aikido at all. He had a head on collision with a brick wall at 60 mph in a 64 Camano. The car was a twisted hunk of metal and Nick says the only thing that saved his life was the unbendable arm ("trick") I showed him. He was not wearing a seatbelt and he said all he could do was relax and extend the energy. The steering wheel was bent on both sides to the steering column. He suffered a broken leg.

Or it could have been those beers!


I am writing way to much so I will stop now.

Dennis Hooker

Last edited by Dennis Hooker : 05-04-2006 at 12:45 PM.

Dennis Hooker: (DVD) Zanshin and Ma-ai in Aikido
https://www.createspace.com/238049

www.shindai.com
 
Old 05-04-2006, 12:41 PM   #147
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Michael,
enjoyed the post, mainly because I understand the language you are using and surmise that we have had similar training experiences. I do however think that you may want to shore up the sand bags and hunker down as I sense some incoming flack

Quote:
1) Being able to do this one exercise could change a persons entire approach to Aikido. Suddenly there was ki in their Aikido in a way that there wasn't before.
Personally I don't know how it is possible to do 'good' aikido without the state that unbendable arm trains.

cheers,
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
 
Old 05-04-2006, 01:06 PM   #148
M. McPherson
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 39
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Jim Sorrentino wrote:
Mike and Murray,

I'm glad to run into a couple of other Uechi-ryu folks here! I met Shinjo Seiyu-sensei and his son, Kiyohide-sensei, while I was in Okinawa. Both were 100 miles of bad road.

I was fortunate to be pretty involved with aikido under Saotome-sensei by the time the Uechi-ryu political splits occurred.

Murray, I agree with you about the source of the makiwara quote. IMO, Kanei-sensei played a similar role in Uechi-ryu to that of the Ueshiba Kisshomaru-sensei in aikido --- which is a good thing for us, since both gentlemen made their fathers' arts more available to the world.

Ron, you're welcome! I'm glad it was useful.

Jim
Mr. Sorrentino,

Thank you for that observation about the similarity to Ueshiba Kisshomaru Sensei. I'm not a budo scholar, and don't know enough about succession and transmission pre-Meiji jidai Japan and/or the Ryukyu islands, but I'm pretty fascinated by the spread of gendai arts after the second world war, and how many of them seem to mirror the others in terms of growth and dissemination (I.e., a single, gifted, charismatic figure distills a prior art to a subjective essence, teaches a small but growing number of students this interpretation, students squabble and add their own further subjective interpretations after the old man kicks, art is imported abroad, factionalization occurs).
Okay, sorry to contribute yet again to more thread drift. Back to challenged instructors...
By the way, I have never had the privilege of meeting Galeone Sensei, but have heard amazing things about him - you're very lucky to have trained under him, Mr. Sorrentino.

Sincerely,
Murray McPherson
 
Old 05-04-2006, 01:16 PM   #149
mriehle
 
mriehle's Avatar
Dojo: New School Aikido
Location: Stockton, CA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 320
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
I do however think that you may want to shore up the sand bags and hunker down as I sense some incoming flack
Oh, probably. But some flack is water off a duck's back.

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
Personally I don't know how it is possible to do 'good' aikido without the state that unbendable arm trains.
It isn't. That was part of why I suddenly became a fan of an exercise I had always considered a mere parlor trick.

 
Old 05-04-2006, 01:23 PM   #150
mriehle
 
mriehle's Avatar
Dojo: New School Aikido
Location: Stockton, CA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 320
United_States
Offline
Re: Any instructors here ever challenged?

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
People blow this off as nothing and that bothers me a little.
I know of one fairly prominent Aikido instructor who dismisses it - and the idea of ki, for that matter - altogether in one of his books.

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
He had a head on collision with a brick wall at 60 mph in a 64 Camano.
Wow. If that's the way the story actually happened (the possibility that my chain is being yanked has occured to me) it's impressive.

I think I'd still recommend wearing seatbelts, though.

Or, maybe not colliding with walls.

 

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I'm looking to open a Colorado dojo drsean49 Introductions 9 04-29-2007 10:21 PM
Meeting with Dan Harden in Boston MM Open Discussions 173 12-17-2006 05:51 PM
Are you eyes open during rolling? Thomas Ambrose Training 22 04-12-2005 09:09 AM
Open Mindedness and Critical thinking drDalek General 8 05-28-2004 06:19 PM
Dojo News: Aikido Center of Los Angeles Open House AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 09-02-2003 09:50 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:36 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate