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Old 05-01-2006, 10:07 PM   #1
seba368
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Question Aikido internal and slow?

The other day I was trying to get one of my friends to visit the dojo I practice at and possibly join it if he likes it. Apparently he consulted some of his "Asian friends" - that's the term he used, and came back with the following response:

"[]..... Its [aikido] a very slow art and takes a looong time to learn and is more "internal" from what they tell me."

Since I am myself a beginning student, it was very hard for me to comment on it.

Please do.
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:18 AM   #2
Dajo251
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

tell him to come and check out a class and see what he thinks, rather then take it on the word of his friends

Dan Hulley
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:32 AM   #3
Mike Sigman
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

Quote:
Sebastian Brukalo wrote:
"[]..... Its [aikido] a very slow art and takes a looong time to learn
So? If you're ever mugged by a gang of elderly people you'll be able to hold them off easily and match them move for move.

It takes time to learn something correctly.
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Old 05-02-2006, 07:34 AM   #4
SeiserL
 
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

Quote:
Sebastian Brukalo wrote:
"[]..... Its [aikido] a very slow art and takes a looong time to learn and is more "internal" from what they tell me."
Not an uncommon misconception from people who don't know and have never actually seen or participated in Aikido.

Let it go. Get back to training.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 05-02-2006, 12:42 PM   #5
seba368
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

I am not particularly looking for an answer to how to convince him. I just don't like ignorance and the fact that people who never took up Aikido are going around and telling other people that this or that Art is internal and slow. My friend simply didn't know anything about Aikido and asked his co-workers (who apparently didn't know much more, but nevertheless felt the need to provide an answer). Bunch of Nimrods...oh well.
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Old 05-02-2006, 01:09 PM   #6
Budd
 
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

I'm generally more impressed by someone that can make a technique work when moving slowly and fluidly than someone that fails by rushing through it faster than their ability allows.
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Old 05-03-2006, 05:15 AM   #7
Mark Freeman
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
So? If you're ever mugged by a gang of elderly people you'll be able to hold them off easily and match them move for move.
You've not come across the notorious "Hell's Grannies" then, they are a formidable buch. You need all your wits about you and more!

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 05-03-2006, 10:23 AM   #8
James Davis
 
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote:
You've not come across the notorious "Hell's Grannies" then, they are a formidable buch. You need all your wits about you and more!
Nah. Just toss some peppermint candy on the ground and run like hell. You'll be okay.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 05-03-2006, 10:45 AM   #9
jonreading
 
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

It is a shame that some people feel a need to comment negatively about aikido, especially without first-hand knowledge. Of course, there are bad dojo out there that teach bad aikido... I try to respond positively when a prospective student or student makes negative criticisms of aikido (or any martial art). Most of these individuals are obtaining that knowledge second or third hand and from an unreliable source.

That siad, aikido is notably slower in competence progression that many martial arts. I believe its already been said, "it takes time to learn aikido correctly." This investment is unattractive to some.

Many people are thrown because internal=grappling and aikido has significant grappling components. A common misconception. Basketball comprises of a ball, players, a playing surface and uniforms, but it's not football (which also has those components.)
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Old 05-03-2006, 11:18 AM   #10
Keith R Lee
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote:
Many people are thrown because internal=grappling and aikido has significant grappling components. A common misconception.
Huh? Since when is grappling an internal art? I'd say it's one of the most external ones out there. And what are the significant grappling components of Aikido??? You better not say suwariwaza, because grappling, it ain't.

Keith Lee
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Old 05-03-2006, 03:03 PM   #11
Robert Jackson
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

Quote:
Sebastian Brukalo wrote:
The other day I was trying to get one of my friends to visit the dojo I practice at and possibly join it if he likes it. Apparently he consulted some of his "Asian friends" - that's the term he used, and came back with the following response:

"[]..... Its [aikido] a very slow art and takes a looong time to learn and is more "internal" from what they tell me."

Since I am myself a beginning student, it was very hard for me to comment on it.

Please do.
I find it interesting that everyone is immediately assuming this is negative.

"Aikido is very slow art and takes a long time to learn..."

Are you arguing with this? Yeah Aikido takes a relatively long time to learn. Look for threads about the "20 year technique"... It might be exaggerated in this point but it's still does take awhile to learn and get "right"


"is more "internal" from what they tell me" ...

Huh? What does this mean? Do we actually know? It sounds philosophical to me. Are you arguing that aikido is not a philosophical art? Again do a search... Thread topics include The spirituality of aikido (over and over again) Aikido and religion (yawn done this one to!)... Sounds pretty internal to me!

I don't see these as either negative nor necessarily wrong. The only problem it produces is misunderstanding. "I don't want an internal art I want to be able to defend myself."...

Just a thought.

I put my right foot in, I put my left foot out, I do the Aikipokey and throw you all about
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Old 05-03-2006, 03:54 PM   #12
tedehara
 
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

It takes a longer time to play a piano then another musical instrument, like a guitar. Yet if you want to learn how to play a piano, you'll take the time.

Do you want to learn aikido?

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 05-03-2006, 04:07 PM   #13
tarik
 
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

I do find it interesting how many defensive responses are on this thread.

I agree with those who said that aikido can be slow to learn (but not necessarily). Certainly the study of aikido is a life long process, and all the teachers I respect are still learning aikido, but I'm not sure that's the same thing.

I also agree that it's internal. Anything worth doing has an internal component, and I extend that to include everything. I spend a great deal of time deep in contemplation when planning construction projects around the house.

Tarik

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

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Old 05-06-2006, 11:59 PM   #14
Lucy Smith
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

Slow??? Excuse me, but you're all mad. I have been practicing Aikido for two months and can already pin all of my friends, family (including my very tall dad), and even my dog. I can take the biggest dudes off balance and get out of the strongests wrist grabs. It doesn't look slow to me. I practiced Karate for two and who knows what years and it was no good at all. I couldn't hurt a fly. I can now that I do Aikido. Watch it flies

Last edited by Lucy Smith : 05-07-2006 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 05-08-2006, 01:22 PM   #15
Leslie Leoni
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

As someone who is new to Aikido, I would have to agree that it will take a long time to learn it - correctly. Anything worth knowing takes time, patience and PRACTICE! Otherwise we would all excel at it. What drew me to Aikido was the emphasis on the Internal. The mind can and will control the physical if you let it.
Quote:
Those wo have a warped mind, a mind of discord, have been defeated from the begining. O'Sensei - M. Ueshiba.
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Old 05-08-2006, 01:50 PM   #16
Robert Rumpf
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

Quote:
Sebastian Brukalo wrote:
The other day I was trying to get one of my friends to visit the dojo I practice at and possibly join it if he likes it. Apparently he consulted some of his "Asian friends" - that's the term he used, and came back with the following response:

"[]..... Its [aikido] a very slow art and takes a looong time to learn and is more "internal" from what they tell me."

Since I am myself a beginning student, it was very hard for me to comment on it.

Please do.
Compared to what.. jogging? Tai-chi? Judo? MMA? TKD?
Context for this type of statement is important.

Still, I'd pretty much agree with that crude estimation.

Aikido seems to take a long time to learn (its been years and many dojos and instructors, and my tenkan is still lousy), there is often an emphasis on things other than kicking ass (aka it is "internal"), and it can be physically slow for beginners due to those two factors. Aikido tends to speed up more though when you get decent at the basics, or when you are on familiar ground.

One person I knew once who didn't know Aikido, but who studied arts such as muay thai and other arts deemed more "effective" said that Aikido was the calculus of martial arts - crucial, hard to learn, and hard to intuit until you just get it. A surprisingly clever statement, and one that I hope is true.

It may also explain why so much of Aikido is criticized - maybe Aikido people are often are trying to do calculus before they can add.

My response to your friend would be: "so what? you in a hurry?" You could always send him some clips of prominent Aikidoka doing Aikido techniques that are on the web if he wants to see what it looks like when people get good.

I'd spin it like this if you want to get him interested - next time you test, ask him if he wants to come watch (or to see the tape, if you have one). He'll either be interested or he won't. Seeing a beginner's test and explaining how much training that took is probably the best way to give him an honest impression of what Aikido looks like. If he wants to come watch a class after that, than he may be potential student.

Rob
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Old 05-09-2006, 04:15 AM   #17
Mark Freeman
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Re: Aikido internal and slow?

Quote:
Leslie Leoni wrote:
As someone who is new to Aikido, I would have to agree that it will take a long time to learn it - correctly. Anything worth knowing takes time, patience and PRACTICE! Otherwise we would all excel at it. What drew me to Aikido was the emphasis on the Internal. The mind can and will control the physical if you let it.
You may be new to aikido but you have picked up on a crucial aspect of aikido that seemingly many in the aikido world do not seem to give due importance. "The mind can and will control the physical if you let it."
You are right, learning aikido takes time, patience and practice. Practicing the physical aspects of aikido will improve physical posture and effectiveness. Of course this is important. Practicing the 'mind' aspect of aikido is really the key (ki) differentiator that will take your aikdo to another level.

regards,
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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