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Old 10-11-2001, 02:24 AM   #76
JJF
 
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Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
Location: Vissenbjerg
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 780
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Quote:
...axe hack first technique...

..shomenuchi ikkyo...
This is a good example of the risk of a misleading translation from japanese into english. As far as I know (and my sensei has been VERY explicit about this to me several times) a shomenuchi should NEVER be performed like an axe hack....... So I guess translating the names of the techniques can have it's shortcommings .

As representative of a fairly small language area I just want once again to point out that people from the US (and to some extend from Britain and Australia) often seem to be very reluctant in allowing other languages to play a part in anything. For example the excellent french movie 'Nikita' was refilmed in the US with actors of less quality (my opinion!!) as 'Codename Nina' and I think that's a serious waste of resources just because the broad audience in the US don't want to read subtitles.

My point is that the enlish speaking Aikido societies might benefit from changing the japanese terms of Aikido into english terms, but to the rest of the world that's not neccesarily the best solution. I don't think every technique should be named in each and every language since that will undoubtly leed to differences in translation and ruin the beautiful oppertunity of people from all arond the world communicating about Aikido across borders.

Let's all accept the fact that Aikido techniques are originally named in japanese and make the effort to learn them. If you like it - that's just great and if you don't then it's a good excercise in discipline.

Just my opinion

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 10-16-2001, 02:19 AM   #77
Jappzz
 
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Ai symbol

Ok Andy i see your point.

But i still didn't reffer to these terms in a cultural vacuum as you seem to think. Asian languages has always told us things a little differently meerely because of the culture they were created by. Metaphores and central concepts of comprehension are a tad different because of that. Take chinese for instance: In classical chinese there is no concept of "OR". Accordingly you have to say "IF NOT A THEN B" etc. This is not unique for the asian languages but it's still a fact. The fact i'm getting at is that there are subtle differences in this. If your digging even deeper into this and start meddling with the kanji that make up the words you would see this even more clearly. The conclusion beeing: Most budo arts have their roots in ancient concepts. I personaly would not cosider i'm getting the "original ideas" handed down through generations if i am to meddle whith it's definition. And there's more to this. The whole DO-concept builds on the fact that tradition is respected. How are we supposed to judge , modify and redefine these arts in a completely different cultural enviroment and still keep the genuine idea that is supposed to be so profound that it's influence could lead us to grow as spiritual beeings. Language migth not even be a big part of tradition but reffering to what someone said at the very beginning of this thread: If we take ever so small bites out of the stone of tradition that we're swimming around it'll soon be pretty hollow...

Peace

Jasper
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Old 10-16-2001, 03:21 AM   #78
Creature_of_the_id
 
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Dojo: Alnwick aikido club (UKAU)
Location: Newcastle, England
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Unhappy

you know... I dont understand this whole translating to english stuff.
the words we use are the names of the techniques, something that they can be recognised by. once you learn the names they are no longer foreign. Yes they originated from a different area of the world, but once you have them in your vocabulary they are not a foreign language as such.

translating the names, is kinda like instead of calling me Kevin, calling me "irish for born handsom" or where ever my name comes from and what it actually means
translating my name or saying its meaning doesnt help you know me any better. the only way to know me is to experience me or interact with me. its the same with aikido and techniques.

its just learning a different name... but OH NO! the words have vowels and consonants in places we are not used to seeing them.. how ever am I supposed to remember a word like that?
emmmmm.. simply get over it?

they are names, they are what the techniques are called. why even bother to change them? it just seems like mass xenaphobia to me

Love yas
Kev
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Old 10-24-2001, 01:31 AM   #79
momentrylapse
Dojo: Lancashire Aikikai
Location: uk
Join Date: Oct 2001
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I think it's ok to use either english or japanese, but it is important to decide one or the other not mix and match

"this technique is ikkyo, Now this next tecnique is called heaven and earth throw".

The above is ok if you provide an english translation to help understanding of the meaning. Otherwise students will get confused. Also you should try and understand what you are saying, what is the point in using words if you dont understand them, Or worse still saying things that you should be saying with feeling/meaning/honesty and not having a clue what they are.

The above especialy refers to the standard throughout most classes I have been to, "Onegaishimasu" and "Domo Arigato Gozai Mashita". Surely its wrong for a student to be saying these if they do not know what they mean and therefore cannot realy mean them.

I personaly prefer to use Japanese as much as possible in the class, not because I want to "show off" but because I have an interest in the Japanese Culture. Also in our associations, as with many others, we aim to continue the teachings of Aikido in the purest for we can, maintaining the traditions, names, and etiquette helps maintain the true spirit of Aikido.

Aikido is a Japanese Martial Art!
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Old 10-24-2001, 01:40 AM   #80
momentrylapse
Dojo: Lancashire Aikikai
Location: uk
Join Date: Oct 2001
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This year I went on the summer school in the UK with Chiba Sensei.

One day somebody, without thinking wallked on the mat with their shoes/zori/flipflops on, later in that day somebody walked off the mat without footwear.

Chiba sensei spotted this, and appeared quite cross, but not because they were dragging dirt onto the mat he explained the following:

When you come to Aikido you are learning part of Japanese Culture, When you step into the dojo you should adhear to the rules of that culture.
In Japan it is considered rude, almost an insult to step on the mat without removing your footwear, likewise the other way round.

Surely part of that culture is the language, ok not everythingshould be said in Japanese, after all we dont all speak japanese before we go on the mat, but technique names and basic etiqette and instructions should maybe be used.
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Old 10-30-2001, 05:07 PM   #81
LiquidZero
Dojo: Arlington Aikikai, Arlington Heights, IL
Location: Chicago
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Regarding my first post on this thread (now edited). People not attending the dojo I attend may pay no heed to this message.

To whomever read what was here and brought it up to Sensei, my apologies are in order. I apologize, and did not mean any disrespect. I wasn't trying to 'impress' anyone.

P.S. I'd like to know whomever it was that read this at my dojo, so that I may apologize face to face.
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