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Old 04-25-2006, 07:00 PM   #1
Lorien Lowe
Dojo: Northcoast Aikido
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name the technique...

That starts out like a soto kaiten-nage, but has nage's arm slipping down to uke's shoulder, as though the grab had been missed, for an arm-bar type put-down.

anybody?

-LK
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Old 04-25-2006, 07:43 PM   #2
David Kai
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Re: name the technique...

Do you mean Kata Gatame?

KAI
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:30 PM   #3
raul rodrigo
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Re: name the technique...

My sensei always called it kaiten lock.
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:11 PM   #4
villrg0a
 
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Re: name the technique...

could also be a hijji shime?
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Old 04-25-2006, 11:49 PM   #5
Lan Powers
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Re: name the technique...

Quote:
Lorien Lowe wrote:
That starts out like a soto kaiten-nage, but has nage's arm slipping down to uke's shoulder, as though the grab had been missed, for an arm-bar type put-down.

anybody?

-LK
Does the "arm-bar type take down" wind up in the kneeling pin from Nikyo?
In the book of O'Sensei's photos from the pre-war years (When he looked to be about 45 or so) the technique I think you are talking about is called Side Enty Nikyo.....
Kato Sensei does his Nikyo Omote very similar to your description also.
If the pin is in a differant position, then it would be something else, but the "slipping the arm up to ukes shoulder" part sure sounds familiar.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the book "Budo" ?
Lan

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Old 04-26-2006, 01:34 AM   #6
Sonja2012
 
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Re: name the technique...

I believe we call this ude garami... if I understood your description correctly.
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Old 04-26-2006, 02:29 AM   #7
batemanb
 
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Re: name the technique...

I've heard this called a number of things

ude garami (arm entwine)
Kata gatame (shoulder entwine)
hiji shime (elbow lock)

I think there are elements of all of these in the technique, but I know it as hiji shime.

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:20 PM   #8
Lorien Lowe
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Re: name the technique...

'arm entwine' sounds appropriate. Ude garami - pronounced like it's spelled?
Once we're on the ground we pin with a shoulder/elbow stretch (no flex of the wrist at all), so I don't think it's a type of nikkyo.

thanks everybody!

-LK
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:51 PM   #9
raul rodrigo
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Re: name the technique...

If I grab ukes wrist as he is face down (left hand to left, or right to right as the case may be), grab my own wrist with my free hand and turn my body toward uke's head, that would be a kind of ude garami, or more commonly a "kimura", named after the judoka Masahiko Kimura. If there is no wrist grabbing involved, then its more like the standard shoulder lock that follows nikyo ura.
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Old 04-30-2006, 03:13 PM   #10
saltlakeaiki
 
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Re: name the technique...

If I understood this correctly (although I've never quite known the name of it either...) it strikes me more as a "kata gatame" (shoulder lock/pin) than an "ude garami" (arm entwine) or "hiji shime" (elbow strangulation/constriction). Still, I wouldn't necessarily argue it on semantic grounds FWIW, 2nd Doushu Kisshoumaru Sensei in his book AIKIDO uses the term "hiji shime" for a different technique (p. 139 of English edition).

Dave

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Old 04-30-2006, 07:47 PM   #11
raul rodrigo
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Re: name the technique...

Kata gatame is a judo lock with pressure on the carotid artery thats done with uke face up instead of face down. Its particularly memorable to me because that lock was the first knockout I ever received on the judo mat.
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Old 05-01-2006, 12:44 AM   #12
saltlakeaiki
 
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Re: name the technique...

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
Kata gatame is a judo lock with pressure on the carotid artery thats done with uke face up instead of face down.
As I say, I can't speak authoritatively on the name of this aikido technique, but it seems to me entirely possible and likely that different arts use the same name for different techniques. Especially where there's no particular historical relationship between the arts.

Dave

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