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Old 04-22-2006, 09:34 PM   #1
Saw Y. C. Naw
Location: San Jose, CA
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Unhappy So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Last class, sensei went over the kotegaishi in some detail. This afternoon, my girlfriend and I were playing around and I did a kotegaishi on her. She tried to resist it and ended up hurting herself. She sat there with a displeased look, flexing and touching her wrist the way, like a kid who fell off her bike. I tried to apologize, but she stomped out of my apartment and went home. We were supposed to have spent another six hours together.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? I don't want to have to explain to sensei that I broke up with my girlfriend because I did a kotegaishi on her...

Any advice is welcome...
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Old 04-22-2006, 09:50 PM   #2
kaishaku
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

A life lesson for sure. Don't apply joint locks to loved ones. Or chokes for that matter.
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Old 04-22-2006, 09:55 PM   #3
Chris Li
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Saw Y. C. Naw wrote:
Last class, sensei went over the kotegaishi in some detail. This afternoon, my girlfriend and I were playing around and I did a kotegaishi on her. She tried to resist it and ended up hurting herself. She sat there with a displeased look, flexing and touching her wrist the way, like a kid who fell off her bike. I tried to apologize, but she stomped out of my apartment and went home. We were supposed to have spent another six hours together.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? I don't want to have to explain to sensei that I broke up with my girlfriend because I did a kotegaishi on her...

Any advice is welcome...
Hmm, if you were doing Karate or boxing would you have punched her in the face?

Best,

Chris

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Old 04-23-2006, 02:21 AM   #4
Tom Liauw
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

"Don't apply joint locks to loved ones."

Couldn't have said it better.
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Old 04-23-2006, 02:23 AM   #5
merlynn
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

mmmmmmmmmm i think you should be buying flowers and stuff for her, nothing like a bit of grovelling to say sorry mate

some things are so dear and so precious you have to let them go
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Old 04-23-2006, 02:23 AM   #6
batemanb
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Comments, yeah, don't try and apply aikido techniques to friends unless you are specifically practicing with them. Of course you're gonna hurt your girlfriend if you do this (unless she trains aikido too) because a) she doesn't know how to react against what you're doing, and b) you don't have enough control over your technique to know when you're putting too much into it......

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 04-23-2006, 03:42 AM   #7
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Saw Y. C. Naw wrote:
I don't want to have to explain to sensei that I broke up with my girlfriend because I did a kotegaishi on her...
I don't think this is something you need to report to your Sensei. Looks to me like you have figured out what you did was a bad idea. Besides, if I were you, I wouldn't want my Sensei to know I was that dumb.(Nothing personal in the comment because you're not alone in that mistake.)

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 04-23-2006, 05:47 AM   #8
Charles
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

My goode wyffe studied Aikido for six months or so quite a few years back. Recently, she asked me to remind her how to do an yonkyo. I complied and was in the dog house for days. Don't ever do AIkido with loved ones outside of the dojo.

More recently she was on the futon and asked me to help her up. She grabbed both of my wrists and I gently pulled back with my center. All went well until she reached the top, perfectly balanced. For some reason I don't understand and without any help from my brain my palms suddenly turned out and away from me -- sending my goode wyffe across the room. More time in the dog house.

But your situation is a good one. With girl friend out of the picture you'll have more time to devote to practice.
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Old 04-23-2006, 06:27 AM   #9
villrg0a
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

You should go to her house and do a sankyo. That should correct the problem (Joke)

About a year back, my 2 yr old daugther managed to get hold of a big scissor (pointed edge) and started running around the house with it. I panicked, went after her and I was trying to get the thingy from her hands but she would not let go of it. I did an ikkyo tenkan and very gently put her down on the floor, still in ikkyo I managed to get the thingy...

There's another incident with the wife... but I'll save that for next time
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Old 04-23-2006, 07:39 AM   #10
chris w
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Saw Y. C. Naw wrote:
She tried to resist it and ended up hurting herself.
i would argue that she did not hurt herself, you hurt HER. if i was playing around and trying to show a technique to someone that doesnt practice (which is a silly thing to do anyway), i would not apply the technique fully if i felt any resistance. if i did so and the person got hurt, i would feel 100% responsible
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Old 04-23-2006, 08:28 AM   #11
ajbarron
Dojo: Calgary Aikikai
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

NO NO No NO No No No No. Never. Never.Never Never.


Marry her first before you kotegaeshi her ........................... then at least the relationship and benefits last a bit longer !!!!

My wife's a soccer player and I don't try to take the ball from her. She plays squash and I run about the court the entire game as she places shots.

I Aikido, She not, and "never the twane shall meet"

Words from the old and wise.
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Old 04-23-2006, 10:39 AM   #12
John (King John)
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Saw Y. C. Naw wrote:
Last class, sensei went over the kotegaishi in some detail. This afternoon, my girlfriend and I were playing around and I did a kotegaishi on her. She tried to resist it and ended up hurting herself. She sat there with a displeased look, flexing and touching her wrist the way, like a kid who fell off her bike. I tried to apologize, but she stomped out of my apartment and went home. We were supposed to have spent another six hours together.
..
Personally I would consider myself to be lucky to be still breathing!
Never mind the loss of 'intimacy' for the night.

Grab my arm.....The other arm.....MY other arm
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Old 04-23-2006, 10:58 AM   #13
Aiki Teacher
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

As some said earlier, flowers are nice!!!
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Old 04-23-2006, 11:41 AM   #14
SmilingNage
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

This all goes to show what you are learning is not kid's play. With any technique from any art, you should show restraint in using or applying the technique off the mat.
IMO, its a breach of trust between you and your instructor. He handed you the technique for your study and exploration, not to be used as a parlor trick.

Dont make me, make you, grab my wrist.
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Old 04-23-2006, 12:44 PM   #15
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Also don't ever ask your wife to "pull your finger" Mine is never impressed with the release of excess KI no matter how philsophically I try to explain it!
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:30 PM   #16
MikeLogan
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Rimshot!
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:49 PM   #17
MikeLogan
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
She tried to resist it and ended up hurting herself
Considering most of us only know it's better to not resist solely from training in aikido, when showing anyone outside the art a technique that, if you feel resistance it's only because it's a natural reaction they haven't learned to control. Even if you were the grand master of kotogaeshi in all the world, she'd have zero idea how to receive it.

If you're lucky the Ladies of Aikido will comment on your dire predicament. As for her reaction, she was probably at first shocked to feel such odd control over her limbs/balance, and she most likely wanted that control back ASAP. The pain experienced by her was because you did not relinquish that control. You didn't mean any harm, but imagine that you didn't know aikido, and it was your girlfriend's older brother that wanted to show you this really cool thing called Kotegaishi. 1, you would look like a weak, awkward male, 2 it would be in front of the girlfriend, 3 it would hurt, and you would be experiencing someone else holding control over you that you did not want to continue.

Put this event in the context of the rest of your life for extra awareness body-building. what we're learning is enjoyable, but then so is rock climbing and downhill skiing. Respect it as potentially dangerous.

Good luck, and be happy if she talks to you again, and be happy every time she talks to you thereafter.
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Old 04-23-2006, 02:38 PM   #18
Gustaf Rydevik
Dojo: Uppsala Aikikai
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Similar things have happened to me more than once.
You're playing around with someone, wrestling or so, and thern comes a wonderful opening fora nice technique and *whoops*. "It's not supposed to hurt that much.."

The most common problem for me is ikkyo. If I wan't to put someone down nice and gentle, a basic ikkyo seems like a safe choice.
But ikkyo hurts *a lot* to someone who's not used to it!

So now I'm just trying to tie my hands behind my back and not do anything...
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Old 04-23-2006, 04:17 PM   #19
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

I am not sure why this is in the humor section....hurting someone is not funny. You could call her and tell her how very wrong you were and that you will never do it again. I second the thought that you hurt her she did not hurt herself.
Mary
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Old 04-23-2006, 06:08 PM   #20
Lucy Smith
Dojo: Samurai Dojo
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
Hmm, if you were doing Karate or boxing would you have punched her in the face?
That's a mean thing to say!! We all know Aikido is not suposed violent and the fact that she hurt herself was not intentional. The thing is, she was not used to it, so she tryed to resist, which is the worst thing you can do.

Just buy her flowers, go to her house, say you're sorry and you didn't realize what you were doing. Tell her it's not going to happen again.

If she doesn't forgive you, she's the meanest. So move on.
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Old 04-23-2006, 06:20 PM   #21
Saw Y. C. Naw
Location: San Jose, CA
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Gustaf Rydevik wrote:
Similar things have happened to me more than once.
You're playing around with someone, wrestling or so, and thern comes a wonderful opening fora nice technique and *whoops*. "It's not supposed to hurt that much.."

The most common problem for me is ikkyo. If I wan't to put someone down nice and gentle, a basic ikkyo seems like a safe choice.
But ikkyo hurts *a lot* to someone who's not used to it!

So now I'm just trying to tie my hands behind my back and not do anything...
I see that we can relate to each other very well. I mean, how else could an aikido student react to a loved one who keeps trying to scratch them (and not just kitty scratches, I mean real scratches that bleed)

Due to circumstances, I get very little dojo time this semester -- 80 mins a week. So I'm itching for practice outside the dojo and well... stuff happens.

I'm still considering Mr. Villareal advice to compensate with a sankyo cos it makes sense :P
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Old 04-23-2006, 06:24 PM   #22
Saw Y. C. Naw
Location: San Jose, CA
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Lucy Smith wrote:
Just buy her flowers, go to her house, say you're sorry and you didn't realize what you were doing. Tell her it's not going to happen again.

If she doesn't forgive you, she's the meanest. So move on.
Thanks, you're so sweet. It's probably no biggie; we have such petty conflicts all the time. I just thought that by the time she got her third kotegaishi, she'd be used it by now...

*runs from all the angry aikidoka*

How come no-one has mentioned the old "sit down and sulk back until she calls you" technique?

Last edited by Saw Y. C. Naw : 04-23-2006 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 04-23-2006, 06:47 PM   #23
Dajo251
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

MY girlfriend "loves it!"(hint hint wink wink) when I do ikkyo and nikkyo to her...

Dan Hulley
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Old 04-23-2006, 07:06 PM   #24
Chris Li
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Lucy Smith wrote:
That's a mean thing to say!! We all know Aikido is not suposed violent and the fact that she hurt herself was not intentional. The thing is, she was not used to it, so she tryed to resist, which is the worst thing you can do.
She didn't "hurt herself", someone hurt her. If it wasn't intentional it was only because they were too dense to realize the fact that Aikido techniques are just as (and often more) damaging than techniques from any other system of fighting, non-violent goals or not.

Best,

Chris

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Old 04-23-2006, 08:22 PM   #25
eyrie
 
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Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote:
I am not sure why this is in the humor section....hurting someone is not funny.
For the same reason that idiotic TV show "Funniest Home Videos" ain't funny.

Ignatius
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