Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-23-2006, 09:16 PM   #26
Jory Boling
 
Jory Boling's Avatar
Dojo: A.K.I.,Misakikai Dojo
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 193
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

"With great power comes great responsibility." -Uncle Ben

Has anyone showed ther significant other a technique only to haver her/him sneak up on you and appy it (quite effectively?)?

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2006, 09:19 PM   #27
Saw Y. C. Naw
Location: San Jose, CA
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 14
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Jory Boling wrote:
"With great power comes great responsibility." -Uncle Ben

Has anyone showed ther significant other a technique only to haver her/him sneak up on you and appy it (quite effectively?)?
I'd love to hear stories of this.

If only that happened to me (i.e if only I could get my significant other to take an interest in the art) I would probably be happy enough to let her dislocate a few joints
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2006, 09:49 PM   #28
Jory Boling
 
Jory Boling's Avatar
Dojo: A.K.I.,Misakikai Dojo
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 193
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Trying to increase her interest, I showed my fiance how to slip outside a tsuki, swoop behind me, and unbalance me by pulling back on my shoulders (what ist he official term for this?). Afterwards she'd sneak up on me to pull me out of a chair (probably while on aikiweb) or while I was foraging in the fridge. She didn't know how dangerous it was! But I guess it worked. She started aikido in February. Good Luck!

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2006, 10:55 PM   #29
villrg0a
 
villrg0a's Avatar
Dojo: Shuryukan Yoshinkai Aikido
Location: Khobar Saudi Arabia
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 179
Saudi Arabia
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Jory Boling wrote:
Trying to increase her interest, I showed my fiance how to slip outside a tsuki, swoop behind me, and unbalance me by pulling back on my shoulders (what ist he official term for this?). Afterwards she'd sneak up on me to pull me out of a chair (probably while on aikiweb) or while I was foraging in the fridge. She didn't know how dangerous it was! But I guess it worked. She started aikido in February. Good Luck!
it's ushiro nage
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2006, 11:25 PM   #30
Lucy Smith
Dojo: Samurai Dojo
Location: Montevideo
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 138
Uruguay
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
She didn't "hurt herself", someone hurt her. If it wasn't intentional it was only because they were too dense to realize the fact that Aikido techniques are just as (and often more) damaging than techniques from any other system of fighting, non-violent goals or not.
Well if she hadn't resist, she wouldn't have gotten hurt (ok I know something about that sentence must be wrong, but I dunno how else to put it). And, yes, Aikido techniques can be very damaging, if you resist. If someone punches you on the face, he's definitely and conciously trying to hurt you, but if he applies you an Aikido technique, he's probably teasing with no harm intentions.



Lucy

Last edited by Lucy Smith : 04-23-2006 at 11:28 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2006, 11:33 PM   #31
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Philippines
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Jory Boling wrote:
Trying to increase her interest, I showed my fiance how to slip outside a tsuki, swoop behind me, and unbalance me by pulling back on my shoulders (what ist he official term for this?). Afterwards she'd sneak up on me to pull me out of a chair (probably while on aikiweb) or while I was foraging in the fridge. She didn't know how dangerous it was! But I guess it worked. She started aikido in February. Good Luck!

Kiri otoshi
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2006, 11:34 PM   #32
Josh Reyer
 
Josh Reyer's Avatar
Location: Aichi-ken, Nagoya-shi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 644
Japan
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Lucy Smith wrote:
Well if she hadn't resist, she wouldn't have gotten hurt (ok I know something about that sentence must be wrong, but I dunno how else to put it).
I use a light kotegaeshi to demonstrate "aikido" all the time. No one ever gets hurt. Why? Because I control the technique. If I feel the slightest resistence, I back off. If she hadn't resisted, she wouldn't have gotten hurt, sure. But if he hadn't continued the technique when she resisted, she wouldn't have gotten hurt. The final responsibility is his.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 12:12 AM   #33
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,076
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Lucy Smith wrote:
Well if she hadn't resist, she wouldn't have gotten hurt (ok I know something about that sentence must be wrong, but I dunno how else to put it). And, yes, Aikido techniques can be very damaging, if you resist. If someone punches you on the face, he's definitely and conciously trying to hurt you, but if he applies you an Aikido technique, he's probably teasing with no harm intentions.



Lucy
So if I stick out my foot and trip someone then I have no responsibility if they fall down and break their nose? After all, it was just intended to be a joke, and I didn't actually do anything to them - they did it to themselves with their own momentum. And FWIW, plenty of people smack each other in play without "definitely and conciously trying to hurt you".

Aikido techniques, like techniques from any martial art, are dangerous. Suppose that she hadn't resisted - what then? She doesn't know how to fall (presumably), so unless handled carefully she stood a good chance of injury at that point as well.

Intentions or not, responsibility ought to be taken - his action was the cause, not her failure to realize the futility of resistance (which is after all, the normal reaction and should have been expected).

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 12:47 AM   #34
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

It is impossible to put any, just any part of the blame on the victim for "hurting herself". If it was in an aikido class, and the person getting hurt not a beginner: yes. Otherwise: no. If it is a "biggie" or not... well that is up to the girlfriend. The way you describe it, it might well be.

Quote:
Saw Y. C. Naw wrote:
I don't want to have to explain to sensei that I broke up with my girlfriend because I did a kotegaishi on her...
Quote:
Saw Y. C. Naw wrote:
Thanks, you're so sweet. It's probably no biggie; we have such petty conflicts all the time. I just thought that by the time she got her third kotegaishi, she'd be used it by now...
I suggest you do exactly what you do not want to:

Bring this up with your teacher. If you do not want to tell your teacher you are doing kotegaeshis on your girlfriend... you should not be doing them. The fact that you originally placed the thread in the "humour" section might be a bad sign, that you do not understand when you truly are hurting people. I hope it is not.

Flowers might be a good idea. An honest promise to her and to yourself to stop playing around with aikido techniques on her is probably a lot more important.

Last edited by Hanna B : 04-24-2006 at 12:54 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 12:59 AM   #35
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Jory Boling wrote:
I showed my fiance how to slip outside a tsuki, swoop behind me, and unbalance me by pulling back on my shoulders (what ist he official term for this?).
Iriminage

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 01:00 AM   #36
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Jory Boling wrote:
Has anyone showed ther significant other a technique only to haver her/him sneak up on you and appy it (quite effectively?)?
Not really. I can tell you another "sneek up on" story, though.

This guy is doing kyokushin karate, which involves lots of knee kicks. Hi comes home at a timepoint when the girlfriend is usually not there (they live together). She realises he thinks the house is empty, and decides to surprise him: she jumps out from behind a cupboard and slides his shorts down.

He has do idea of what happens, until he hears her jaw break at the contact with his knee.

This was completely unintentional. No one had any intention of anyone getting hurt. Still, I think no one would say she "hurt hurself".

Last edited by Hanna B : 04-24-2006 at 01:03 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 03:54 AM   #37
Jory Boling
 
Jory Boling's Avatar
Dojo: A.K.I.,Misakikai Dojo
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 193
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Hanna Björk wrote:
...This guy is doing kyokushin karate ...She realises he thinks the house is empty, and decides to surprise him....hears her jaw break at the contact with his knee.. I think no one would say she "hurt hurself".
In retrospect, were you- I mean, was she surprised at what happened?

Was the knee to the jaw done from reflex or did her jaw enter the path of some motion he was practicing? I'd say, if somebody intentionally sneaks up on a martial artist (especially while they are practicing!!!) and then gets a fat lip, they "hurt" themselves!

Has anyone else been startled (or been the startler) and simply reacted?

Jory

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 03:59 AM   #38
Jory Boling
 
Jory Boling's Avatar
Dojo: A.K.I.,Misakikai Dojo
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 193
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Saw Y. C. Naw wrote:
... I don't want to have to explain to sensei that I broke up with my girlfriend because I did a kotegaishi on her...
Why would you have to explain to your sensei that you broke up with your girlfriend, to begin with?

Unless your sensei is her dad- or mom.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 04:00 AM   #39
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Keith Krajewski wrote:
A life lesson for sure. Don't apply joint locks to loved ones. Or chokes for that matter.
Worked wonders on my kids!!

Seriously though, applying aikido locks off the mat with untrained people is not to be recommended. As the lady in question will testify.
Yet why oh why is there a never ending debate going on about whether aikido is effective in a 'real life fight' when it is painfull even 'when we are trying to be gentle'??

Just a thought

Mark
p.s this thread should be in another section

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 05:19 AM   #40
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 647
Sweden
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Jory Boling wrote:
In retrospect, were you- I mean, was she surprised at what happened?
I do not know the answer to that question. I do not know her, I have the story from his brother.

Quote:
Was the knee to the jaw done from reflex or did her jaw enter the path of some motion he was practicing?
He was not practicing. Ha had just come home, and walked around in the house wearing shorts. I do not think I wrote anything that points in that direction that he was practising, but if I did that was a mistake.

Quote:
I'd say, if somebody intentionally sneaks up on a martial artist (especially while they are practicing!!!) and then gets a fat lip, they "hurt" themselves!
I do not know the precise extent of the injury to the cheek bone, but it was certainly more than "a fat lip". Having training in martial arts does not make other people responsible for your irrational overreaction when startled. I am quite convinced he does not feel "she hurt hurself".

Last edited by Hanna B : 04-24-2006 at 05:29 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 08:07 AM   #41
Jory Boling
 
Jory Boling's Avatar
Dojo: A.K.I.,Misakikai Dojo
Location: Yokosuka, Japan
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 193
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

i'm not as mean as i sounded! i thought he was "doing" his routine at the same time and he was caught up in the moment. i agree, she did not hurt herself! thanks for the story.

p.s. I defended his reaction from overreacting a couple of times myself when startled.

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 09:10 AM   #42
Mark Gibbons
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 176
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

The few times I've shown my wife something she might enjoy from an aikido class she is almost always in the role of nage. If I can't describe it and walk her thru it then she probably wasn't going to be interested anyway. Its a lot safer physically and maritally if I'm the uke. Just an idea.

Mark
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 10:40 AM   #43
Eric Webber
Dojo: Aikido West Reading
Location: Reading, Pa
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 261
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Give your girlfriend kisses, keep your kotegeishi for the bad guys. Learn control before attempting to make a technique "gentle" and "friendly" - these techniques were not originally friendly, they were combat effective; in raw and unpolished form, they are still combat effective (that's why they're taught in corrections and law enforcement). I agree that flowers are appropriate, as is chocolate, wine, and grovelling. Good luck.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 10:57 AM   #44
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,934
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote:
She didn't "hurt herself", someone hurt her. If it wasn't intentional it was only because they were too dense to realize the fact that Aikido techniques are just as (and often more) damaging than techniques from any other system of fighting, non-violent goals or not.
couldn't have said it better myself.
not to mention aikido as technique flowing in response to incoming energy--how the hell is a non-aikido person supposed to protect herself when a trusted friend grabs on and applies a static joint lock?!
you'd best grovel, mate. i might see this as a sign of terminal stupidity in a b'friend and walk away.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 11:57 AM   #45
RebeccaM
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Location: Boulder
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 136
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

So a while back I got involved in some horseplay at work. It started when i tried to change radio stations becuase the song that was on gave me the creepy-crawlys. My labmate had other ideas. We scuffled, she grabbed me by the shirt, right at the shoulder, and naturally I initiated a nikkyo. She stiffened and locked her elbow. It was an arm break waiting to happen, but I was paying attention so I...wait for it...let her go. Just like that. I opened up my hands, held my arms out, and she understood what I could have done and was now doing and let me go too.

That is what you SHOULD have done. What you DID do was miss the part where you're watching/feeling your partner, and you ended up cuasing pain. Not only that, but you probably swore up and down you wouldn't hurt her before trying the kotegaishi, so now she has a sore wrist and her trust has been violated, which is what's hurting her much, much more than the wrist.

Flowers, chocolate, abject apologies, promises to never, ever try a stunt like that again. Rinse and repeat. And then KEEP THE PROMISES. Next time you want to show her some aikido, talk her into watching a class.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 12:06 PM   #46
HooverGurl
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 14
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

well, my ex used to do all sorts of stuff on me, tho mainly sankyo. i was never happy abt it, but i got over it. i mean, its not really that big of a deal. just keep apologizing and promise not to do it on her again. that always worked for me!

Someone save me if you will
And take away all these pills
And please just save me if you can
From my blasphemy in my wasteland
Save Me, Shinedown
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 12:46 PM   #47
Suwariwazaman
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati
Location: Cincinnati
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 52
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

that is funny! i was messing around with a co-worker some time ago. He was waving a marker at me, and came into a tsuki. i didnt place too much pressure, but was caught by surprise with the marker, i tenkaned, then took another step and pulled down caught kotegaeshi, and then settled like a sword. by the time I realized that he was on the ground screaming and kicking. I did let go, and moved out of the way from the kicking with hast. I apologized and asked if he was ok. He said man dont freak out, but I said I didnt. I was just defending myself, and meant no harm. He never did that again to me. He does however challenge me every once in while. any thoughts?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 01:29 PM   #48
Richard Langridge
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 62
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Er, I hope you're not laughing at the original post...
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 03:41 PM   #49
Saw Y. C. Naw
Location: San Jose, CA
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 14
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Quote:
Krysten Cooper wrote:
well, my ex used to do all sorts of stuff on me, tho mainly sankyo. i was never happy abt it, but i got over it. i mean, its not really that big of a deal. just keep apologizing and promise not to do it on her again. that always worked for me!
Hehe, that worked for me too :P

Just in case anyone wants to know, the next day she was like the whole thing never happened.

(Well, at least until the next time I get dojo urges...)
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2006, 04:09 PM   #50
Saw Y. C. Naw
Location: San Jose, CA
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 14
United_States
Offline
Re: So I kotegaishi'd my girlfriend...

Just some clarification, for those who think I never intended to hurt her and so flowers should do, as well for those who think that I'm a jerk and should be shot.

It wasn't the OMG-you-really-hurt-me-and-I-hate-you type of walk-out. It was more like Why-do-you-keep-practicing-your-stupid-techniques-on-me-of-all-people-you-big-jerk kind of thing. I'm used to applying the techniques very gently because the majority of my class are unranked petite women. I can't go more than half-momentum in my dojo, and well... who can resist a gf with some muscles We often play at "street fighting" (boy she has a lot of 'HP' hit points, and the fingernails to boot). It's just that I snuck up on her while she was writing a paper, and that ticked her off.

I didn't want to post this in the General forum because I didn't think it was that serious, but I guess it should have been in somewhere else, like "off-the-mat".

Oh, and we're always fine the next day after something hits the fan... don't you guys just someone like that?
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:11 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate