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Old 06-09-2006, 02:41 PM   #26
dbotari
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 97
Canada
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Re: Too dangerous for children?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
As for the "documentary evidence" issue... every student I ever had who went to a doctor (except a sports medicine specilaist) with an injury was told to stop training. What we do stresses the body. It's debateable whether it's good for anyone. The more seriously you train, the more that is true.
You know I find this ironic. The medical ciommunity is going all out now a days to convince people to get more active yet they have this kind of attitude to martial arts in general. They will recommend someone take up running without a second thought about the impact of that activity on knees etc over the long run but menton martial arts and its "what are you some kind of nut?".

Sorry for the rant and the thread hijack. Back to your normal programming.
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:55 PM   #27
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
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Re: Too dangerous for children?

I had a doctor once that told me to stop training in aikido.

I no longer have that doctor.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 06-09-2006, 04:22 PM   #28
James Davis
 
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Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
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Re: Too dangerous for children?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
I had a doctor once that told me to stop training in aikido.

I no longer have that doctor.

Best,
Ron

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 06-09-2006, 05:41 PM   #29
Steven
 
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Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
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Re: Too dangerous for children?

One of my young japanese students some time ago was not sitting in seiza during lessons. I asked, "why aren't you in seiza like everyone else". She replied, "my knee has been hurting and my doctor said sitting in seiza is bad for your knees." At which I replied, "What? What kind of "quack" is your doctor?" She laughed and replied ... "my dad"

:-)
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Old 06-10-2006, 12:00 PM   #30
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Re: Too dangerous for children?

To really get the answer you want you need to log on to your local library's database for academic journals. Any local university should have one.

Often medical journals are impossible to read, so try the SportDiscus database for some material in plain english.

It takes time and energy, so this way is pretty hardcore (like thesis level research).
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Old 06-11-2006, 03:18 AM   #31
batemanb
 
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Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
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Re: Too dangerous for children?

In the UK, associations belonging to the British Aikido Board have to put their instructors through a kids coaching course if they want to teach juniors. This is aimed at giving the instructors a set of best practice guidelines. One of the things we are told is not to do wrist locks on young bodies, this is because the bones are very soft until they reach mid teens, and easy to cause damage, particularly for future development if these techniques are applied too hard. I don't know where the medical evidence comes from, but, I personally believe it to be true. You only have to take hold of a 9 year old wrist that 's about an inch in diameter and you can see how easy it would be to damage if a nikkyo is applied too hard. I don't know about everyone else, but I've been running a kids class for three years, ages 7 - 15, when they train, especially in the first couple of years, they will always try and apply techniques as hard as they can, they have very little in the way of control. For this reason alone I think it unwise to let them practice nikkyo, sankyo, kotegaeshi and hiji shime. I do let them practice yonkyo occasionally though .

Whatever medical evidence is out there, pro or anti, I personally wouldn't consider doing these particular techniques on anyone under 14 or 15 years old.

rgds
Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:37 AM   #32
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,218
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Re: Too dangerous for children?

I completely agree. The emphasis in teaching children is teaching ukemi. In 17 years of teaching children I have had only two injuries in my class. Both were injuries from "falling" and both occurred when I was a fresh beginner at teaching children. Joint locks are unnecessary.
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:28 AM   #33
wmreed
 
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Dojo: Columbus Aikikai
Location: Columbus, OH
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Re: Too dangerous for children?

While I agree with most of the statements about avoiding joint techniques, I have to clarify that it's not because the children lack control. I've been teaching children for more than 10 years, and find that they lack a sense of what injuries may occur without control, until I tell them, because they have too little life experience to anticipate what may cause injury, and which of those injuries may be more serious than others. I still avoid joint techniques, because I am unclear on the effects that they may have on growing bones.

But as far as control goes, if you teach children control and expect control from your children, you will get it.


Bill

William M. Reed
Columbus, OH USA
wmreed@columbus.rr.com
"I'm not the author William Reed -- yet."
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