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Old 04-17-2006, 01:56 PM   #51
aikigirl10
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Re: Am i missing something??

Wow...

I'm done now.
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Old 04-17-2006, 02:04 PM   #52
giriasis
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Re: Am i missing something??

Unfortunately, I don't really think I'm mischaraterizing David's postings. He does have some good points, but whenever I read what he posts his message gets lost in his condescending attitude. He really comes across as a "keyboard shihan" on this board. I have a real problem when someone is clearly taking the effort to understand themselves and someone turns around and degrades them. And I can not see how comments like, "Deep down most are festering in insecurity regarding the superficiality they cannot seem to move beyond," can not be seen as derogatory and judgmental.

We have different levels of training in aikido and each kind is equally valid and respectable. In my opinion as long as someone puts in their fullest effort, even if they are hobbiest, then their training is as worthy as those who plan to to make their aikido their life long pursuit. As a tree can not grow with out its leaves and branches, the leaves are as important to the tree as the roots. Just because some leaves fall off does not mean when they were there that they did not perform a worthwhile and meaningful function. When you care for a plant, you care for the ENTIRE plant not just the roots or trunk. My impression from his message combined with his attitude is that he appears to only care about making everyone trunks and roots. There will be no tree with only a trunk and roots -- there will just be a trunk and roots. However, this was not my impression from Ledyard Sensei's postings, just David's.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 04-17-2006, 03:05 PM   #53
Berney Fulcher
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
We have different levels of training in aikido and each kind is equally valid and respectable. In my opinion as long as someone puts in their fullest effort, even if they are hobbiest, then their training is as worthy as those who plan to to make their aikido their life long pursuit.
I didn't take what David was saying as being any different than that. He outright said, that being a hobbiest is fine - as long as you realize you are a hobbiest. Aikido being what it is, i.e. supposed to have a spritual component, shouldn't that level of self-honesty be something we all strive towards?

(I'm on the hobby track myself, btw )
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Old 04-17-2006, 04:02 PM   #54
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Am i missing something??

Hi Anne Marie. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I think this quote verbatim from one of David's posts sums it up:

Quote:
What I can respect is someone that trains at the hobby level or the desire level and is TRULY fine with it -- I mean, TRULY FINE WITH IT. Someone that can say, "Man, Aikido is just a hobby for me, and that is cool. As a hobby, I don't expect it to do more than a hobby can do." We have folks that train like that at our dojo -- and they are a great part of the overall community.
He pretty much spells it out that this is fine, there are people like that at his dojo, and that is fine. I really don't know how much more he can do along those lines.

I have seen other people react to David's writing style. I believe that he is an academic, and that influences his writing strongly. As such, I find it no surprise that it turns some people off, and maybe even makes some others feel inferior. That happens with A LOT of academics. Peter Goldsbury is one fine exception to this rule. When I first began reading David's posts, I too had something of that feeling that he might be 'looking down on us from the ivory tower'. But I stuck with his prose, and found so much gold it was worth whatever effort it took to figure out what he was saying, and where my own perspective and or emotions got in the way.

Let me sum this up this way...by David's definition I am more of a hobbyist than I would like.

So I am taking steps to get my body into better shape to withstand the assaults that serious aikido training make on me. In my case, this means physical training outside of aikido, something that I never had to do before. But if I am really committed to aikido BEYOND THE HOBBY LEVEL, I MUST start doing that. In my case, yoga seems to be doing the trick, but ask me again in a few months.

There is nothing wrong with my current level...except that I am not happy with it. I want to go deeper. That will take commitment, and there's nothing wrong with challenging myself to do that, or being willing to call a spade a spade. I can't say for sure if David's message applys to the original poster, or if it applies to anyone else but me. But I do think people who react to the message strongly should take a long, hard look at themselves. Before they start with the name calling.

Best,
Ron (hobbyist currently, looking for more)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-17-2006, 04:43 PM   #55
Amelia Smith
 
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Re: Am i missing something??

Good academic writing is clear, consistent and concise. It should not be condescending or confusing. Obviously, our reactions to David's writing style and content vary widely. I found myself impressed with what he had to say... at first. On further exposure, it began to grate on me. Why did he take so long to make what seems to be a simple point?

The point of David's posts, as far as I could stand to read them, is to emphasize the importance of making a commitment to training. One's practice should not be subject to whim or superficial, shifting emotions.

So far, so good. Then came post #28, in which he called Paige stuck, immature, and reactive. Sure, she called him "robotic" first, but I believe that was her way of saying that he had not been clear in his earlier statements. Then David wrote:
Quote:
It's that simple - and it only gets complex when you are stuck, resistant to self-transformation (the real kind), and/or unable and unwilling to recognize what you are for fear of realizing what you are not.
I object to the implication that real self-transformation can only come about through committed training (as defined by David -- what do you mean by committed training, David?), and that Paige's not-practicing is based on fear and insecurity. To me, that is a constricted view of the situation, based on a rigid world-view. Self-transformation can come about in many ways, and often the effects of our previous hard work come to light in a period of rest and reflection.

--Amelia

Last edited by Amelia Smith : 04-17-2006 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 04-17-2006, 05:14 PM   #56
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Let me sum this up this way...by David's definition I am more of a hobbyist than I would like.

Best,
Ron (hobbyist currently, looking for more)
Hey Ron, maybe we could start a club?

kvaak
Pauliina
another not-quite-satisfied hobbyist
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Old 04-17-2006, 05:26 PM   #57
aikigirl10
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Amelia Smith wrote:
Good academic writing is clear, consistent and concise. It should not be condescending or confusing. Obviously, our reactions to David's writing style and content vary widely. I found myself impressed with what he had to say... at first. On further exposure, it began to grate on me. Why did he take so long to make what seems to be a simple point?

The point of David's posts, as far as I could stand to read them, is to emphasize the importance of making a commitment to training. One's practice should not be subject to whim or superficial, shifting emotions.

So far, so good. Then came post #28, in which he called Paige stuck, immature, and reactive. Sure, she called him "robotic" first, but I believe that was her way of saying that he had not been clear in his earlier statements. Then David wrote:
I object to the implication that real self-transformation can only come about through committed training (as defined by David -- what do you mean by committed training, David?), and that Paige's not-practicing is based on fear and insecurity. To me, that is a constricted view of the situation, based on a rigid world-view.
Thank you Amelia.

You can see real intellectual writing, first-hand in the post above. I just had to say that.


Quote:
Amelia Smith wrote:
Self-transformation can come about in many ways, and often the effects of our previous hard work come to light in a period of rest and reflection.

--Amelia
I can only hope this is what will come of my period of rest and reflection.

*Paige*
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Old 04-17-2006, 06:09 PM   #58
Patrick Crane
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
I think i may have been to the dojo once in the year 2006.
I've picked up my guitar about as many times in '06 as you've been to your dojo. No biggie............it will always be there and so will aikido.


Quote:
And while sometimes, the atmosphere at my aikido dojo can be somewhat annoying
Find a new dojo....eventually, when you're ready.



Quote:
I also don't feel guilty like i normally do after taking a while off. I don't know why. Usually i beat myself up over missing practice but not now.
Good.
It's called emotional maturity.
Your decisions are your decisions, period.
Congrats.

Guilt???? Yuck...what's that?
Sounds like something they serve with......religion.


Obviously other interests have taken precedence for a while. Good.
Makes you a well-rounded person.
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Old 04-17-2006, 06:20 PM   #59
aikigirl10
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Patrick Crane wrote:
I've picked up my guitar about as many times in '06 as you've been to your dojo. No biggie............it will always be there and so will aikido..
Interesting...




Quote:
Patrick Crane wrote:
Find a new dojo....eventually, when you're ready..
Well when i said my dojo's atmosphere could be somewhat annoying, i guess i should have said that differently.

What i meant was, some of the *former* <<(thank God) aikidoka had really gotten under my skin. It had nothing to do with my sensei or the sempai for the most part. I love my sensei dearly and i think he's a great guy, and i would never even consider finding another dojo , even if there was another one around here.


Quote:
Patrick Crane wrote:
Obviously other interests have taken precedence for a while. Good.
Makes you a well-rounded person.
This is true... i do have other things going in my life at the time. You have a nice way of putting it lol

Last edited by aikigirl10 : 04-17-2006 at 06:21 PM. Reason: add
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Old 04-17-2006, 07:32 PM   #60
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
You can see real intellectual writing, first-hand in the post above. I just had to say that.

No, no, thank you Paige. Best wishes in your ongoing journey.

--Amelia
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Old 04-17-2006, 09:10 PM   #61
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: Am i missing something??

Wow. I lost my father last month and Dennis's post really hit home. Thank you.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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Old 04-17-2006, 10:23 PM   #62
senshincenter
 
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Re: Am i missing something??

Amelia,

Where were you when Paige first said that I do not write like a human being? Was that a kind response to some time and effort on my part to contribute to the discussion? Was that condescending? If not, why? If so, where were you then as the defender of bulletin board justice? If you read the thread you see that it was only Paige and Anne that made insult after insult ("science book" "robot" "keyboard shihan", etc.) - where were you then? Where were you when Paige gave her response to Dennis' obvious good intentions? Was that kind of her? Was it condescending to Dennis?

How about a little consistency, or at least explaining why we should understand your actions as consistent...?

My feeling is that you are not consistent and that your call for justice is not all that it feigns to be. My gut instinct is that you too may be stuck on the same part of what I said: How what I said did not favor folks that want to train at the hobby level but that want to be considered serious for doing it (i.e. they do not want the word "superficial" attached to what they do -- like Anne).

As Ron has said, my view of Aikido is quite accepting of hobby level training. Additionally, I can tell you that no one at our dojo trains like me, nor are they expected to. Because of that, I do not attach all the baggage that someone might that is not so accepting of hobby level training (even hobbyists). Thus, I have no problem using the word "superficial" to describe the relative yield of a hobby -- when the word "hobby" is being understood in its proper sense. If you look up the word "hobby" - for ease of use, go to dictionary.com - you'll see it meaning, "small," "an auxiliary activity," and being synonymous with "by-line," "sideline," "spare-time activity," and "avocation" (with this last word having a definition of "distraction" or "diversion"). The limiting of any practice, Aikido or anything else, to such a level of investment, will limit one's understanding and/or gain from said practice to things "near the surface" (i.e. superficial). This is not an opinion of mine, and therefore something I hold rigidly. This is a fact of all practices, and therefore I hold it as part of my own understanding of Aikido.

Nevertheless, I get what Anne is trying to say - that her level of investment should not be put down below anyone else's, and that it does yield real results and things of great significance for her, etc. I 100% agree with that and teach that in my own school. I understand her but she does not understand me. What she does not get is that I can personally concede the viability of hobby level training (to myself, to her, and my own students that train thusly) while nevertheless being able to note that there remains a depth that is going untouched (for whatever reason, but here by choice). So accepting of hobby level training am I that I can easily note its superficiality while not saying it is completely false, impossible of being real, and/or without any value.

The real problem for many folks that do not train at depth, for personal reasons (that have nothing to do with my writing style), is the replacing of the phrase "do not train at depth" with the English word "superficial." As a result, you get oxymorons like "serious hobby" being generated. You also get posts that speak about hobby level training openly and acceptingly being totally misread. That is fine-- at a personal level. However, personal or not, things should not have to go beyond, "I am a hobbyist, but it irks me when I hear the word ‘superficial' being applied to what I do and what I receive from my hobby." One does not have to go on to denounce what was written as immoral, unethical, or discourteous, the writer as an idiot, etc. HOWEVER, in a way, you almost have to -- because grammatically there is nothing wrong with replacing the phrase "do not train at depth" with the word "superficial."

For me, this tells me that this is really about a war of words for some folks -- such that "serious hobby" can make sense (even when it means: "do it when you want, don't do it when you don't; and you can still be serious about a practice even when you are not doing it and/or not wanting to do it." Me? I am fine with the word "hobby" as is, and I know that folks get some very real things from their hobbies -- Aikido being one of them. I am not stuck on the words, or the related war, nor am I blind to the very real reasons for such wars. In my opinion, before one can see what I have said in the spirit that others here have been able to accurately see, one will have to look at why they are so attached to this war on words (a caveat Ron has said as well). I say this not as a denunciation for those involved. I say this as a person that is himself not satisfied with hobby level training and struggling daily to move beyond -- to deepen my practice.

In answer to your question on what is a committed (mature) practice (which for me has nothing to do with Paige's initial post): A committed Aikido practice is one that has Aikido integrated into the whole of one's existence.

Thanks for your posts Amelia - honestly grateful.
david

Last edited by senshincenter : 04-17-2006 at 10:27 PM.

David M. Valadez
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Old 04-17-2006, 10:45 PM   #63
Jerry Miller
 
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Re: Am i missing something??

Thank you Dennis Hooker. I have read that before. Sometimes it is good to read something and view it as never have been read before. A fresh look in other words.

Jerry Miller
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Old 04-17-2006, 10:58 PM   #64
giriasis
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Nevertheless, I get what Anne is trying to say - that her level of investment should not be put down below anyone else's, and that it does yield real results and things of great significance for her, etc. I 100% agree with that and teach that in my own school. I understand her but she does not understand me. What she does not get is that I can personally concede the viability of hobby level training (to myself, to her, and my own students that train thusly) while nevertheless being able to note that there remains a depth that is going untouched (for whatever reason, but here by choice). So accepting of hobby level training am I that I can easily note its superficiality while not saying it is completely false, impossible of being real, and/or without any value.
David, I understand that you are taking an effort to attempt to understand what I am saying. I appreciate your effort, but once again you fail to understand.

I would be fine if you said for yourself a hobby is superficial, but that is not what you are saying. You are saying that if someone does not train as serious as you expect them then they are a hobbiest; therefore, they are superficial. Then you say that people:
Quote:
Deep down most are festering in insecurity regarding the superficiality they cannot seem to move beyond.
Those kinds of statements really cross the line and really define to me more what you are about. Such statments of generalities really put a meaning behind your idea of superficiality. Some how, any hobbiest, by your definition, has some sort of deep festering insecurity that people can not let go of. It is not that you only take a serious view towards yourself and your own training, but you also take the time to place a judgment on those who do not meet your standards of a "serious student." And, in an effort to make yourself sound like a serious martial artist, you end up putting others down in order to raise yourself up to a supposed higher standard.

Anne Marie Giri
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Old 04-18-2006, 06:09 AM   #65
MM
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
David, I understand that you are taking an effort to attempt to understand what I am saying. I appreciate your effort, but once again you fail to understand.

I would be fine if you said for yourself a hobby is superficial, but that is not what you are saying. You are saying that if someone does not train as serious as you expect them then they are a hobbiest; therefore, they are superficial.
I'd have to agree with David. A hobby is superficial. BUT, what you are saying isn't the same. You state that a hobbiest is superficial. That isn't what I took David as saying. Those are two very different sentences. Look at them closely. A hobby is superficial and A hobbiest is superficial. In the first, the definition is narrow in scope to the hobby itself. In the second, the definition is wide in scope in that it defines a person's whole activities. David never said a hobbiest was superficial, or at least, I never read that. What I got from it was that if you studied something (here it is Aikido) as a hobby, then you're being superficial in that study. That in no way represents the person as being superficial.

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
Then you say that people: Those kinds of statements really cross the line and really define to me more what you are about. Such statments of generalities really put a meaning behind your idea of superficiality. Some how, any hobbiest, by your definition, has some sort of deep festering insecurity that people can not let go of. It is not that you only take a serious view towards yourself and your own training, but you also take the time to place a judgment on those who do not meet your standards of a "serious student." And, in an effort to make yourself sound like a serious martial artist, you end up putting others down in order to raise yourself up to a supposed higher standard.
Sorry, Anne Marie, but I never got any of that from David's postings.

Mark
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Old 04-18-2006, 06:28 AM   #66
senshincenter
 
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:

I would be fine if you said for yourself a hobby is superficial, but that is not what you are saying. You are saying that if someone does not train as serious as you expect them then they are a hobbyist; therefore, they are superficial. Then you say that people: Those kinds of statements really cross the line and really define to me more what you are about. Such statements of generalities really put a meaning behind your idea of superficiality. Some how, any hobbyist, by your definition, has some sort of deep festering insecurity that people can not let go of. It is not that you only take a serious view towards yourself and your own training, but you also take the time to place a judgment on those who do not meet your standards of a "serious student." And, in an effort to make yourself sound like a serious martial artist, you end up putting others down in order to raise yourself up to a supposed higher standard.
Anne, was it not Paige that said she was a hobbyist? Did you miss that?

What I did concerning the word "hobby" was understand it in its proper English context. Nothing more, nothing less. It's your baggage, not mine, that is getting in the way.

I do not expect any person to train at any level. You are missing that huge point. Additionally, I do not think that everyone can train at the same level - nor do I believe that deeper levels of training are even open to everyone (and most certainly not by conscious decisions alone - which you seem to believe).

I understand that your misreading of key statements, even your ignoring and/or glossing over of key statements is helping you define me for you - but what you do not understand is how your definition of me is NECESSARY for you, and how that all fits in with what is being said here as far as issues concerning the deepening of one's training.

Case in point, I never said ANY HOBBYIST. Why change my words? I used the word MOST. Why? Because that has been my experience (which this thread is adding to), and because it takes a great deal of self-honesty and integrity, which are not common traits in human beings at any level and in regards to any practice (which is why we call them virtues), to acknowledge one's level of investment as "hobby" and to truly be fine with that. Case in point: my wife. She has been a hobbyist aikidoka for nearly ten years now. She has no problem with being a hobbyist aikidoka. She does not need to be called a "leaf" to accept that her training is not happening at depth. Nor does she need to call those that are training at depth "roots," in order to accept that there is a superficiality to her training when compared to the former. She just trains. She puts in what she puts in and she gets out of it what she gets out of it. It is a pure experience and remains so even if others in the dojo speak of deeper matters.

This is not different for any of us. No matter who we are, there should be a struggle in us concerning how we are training and how much deeper we can train. But to have that struggle, one must be drawn to the inconsistencies - so as to settle them - between what we are doing and what we think we are doing. To settle these inconsistencies, one must accept them; to accept them, one must practice self-honesty and integrity.

If you could be self-honest and hold integrity, you would not have to change my word "most" to your word "any" - nor would you forget that it was Paige that called herself a hobbyist. You'd also be able to see that I said exactly what you said concerning training at "the level of leaves."

Rather, you are stuck making characterizations, and insults, and it is most likely because what I say goes 100% contrary to what you need to believe about your own personal training (not what you believe concerning courteous behavior and/or Aikido training in general).

David M. Valadez
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Old 04-18-2006, 06:33 AM   #67
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote:
I'd have to agree with David. A hobby is superficial. BUT, what you are saying isn't the same. You state that a hobbiest is superficial. That isn't what I took David as saying. Those are two very different sentences. Look at them closely. A hobby is superficial and A hobbiest is superficial. In the first, the definition is narrow in scope to the hobby itself. In the second, the definition is wide in scope in that it defines a person's whole activities. David never said a hobbiest was superficial, or at least, I never read that. What I got from it was that if you studied something (here it is Aikido) as a hobby, then you're being superficial in that study. That in no way represents the person as being superficial.



Sorry, Anne Marie, but I never got any of that from David's postings.

Mark
Mark - this point is right on as far as I am concerned. I'm only referring to Aikido practice - making no general or overall statements about anyone's person. If I do make reference to a person, it is only as that person is a practitioner of a given practice (i.e. Aikido). For me, that should have gone without saying, but I'm thankful you said it Mark nonetheless. Thanks.
d

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Old 04-18-2006, 06:53 AM   #68
Amelia Smith
 
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Re: Am i missing something??

David,

I did acknowledge that Paige called your writing "robotic," but that came after several posts in which you were quite dismissive of her question. She reciprocated by not being receptive to your perspective on her situation. She was trying to understand her lack of interest, and looking for other people who had been through the same experience. It is an emotional, feeling-based question. When you say that feelings and emotions are irrelevant to deeper training, you are essentially denying the validity of her question. I found her initial question more interesting than your insistence on unflagging commitment.

So, David, I now have a few questions for you. Have you ever suspended your aikido training for a month or more? What was that like? How did it affect your training afterwards?

I would also like to repeat, and clarify, the question I asked earlier (which you did not answer): What, specifically, constitutes committed training? How many hours per week do you train, currently? If you have ever trained at a lesser commitment level, how was that different?

I answered my first set of questions above, in my first post. I'll answer the second set here. I myself am trying to train 5-6 days a week at the moment (1-2 hours per day), but because we only have a small group, some days I can't find anyone to meet me at the dojo. I find that 3-4 days a week of training is best for me, to develop physical skills, but that daily training helps me work more on the mental (and possibly spiritual) dimensions of the art. I also try to make it to seminars as much as possible, and train at other dojo when I can, but I can't always afford to do that (financially) as much as I would like.

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Old 04-18-2006, 07:45 AM   #69
giriasis
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
What I did concerning the word "hobby" was understand it in its proper English context. Nothing more, nothing less. It's your baggage, not mine, that is getting in the way.
This is what I mean David, you make assumptions about people and jump to conclusions about them as if you don't have your own baggage. I hate to tell you this, but you, too, have baggage. It's your baggage that gets in your own way, not mine. I do not have to accept your attitude.

Quote:
Rather, you are stuck making characterizations, and insults, and it is most likely because what I say goes 100% contrary to what you need to believe about your own personal training (not what you believe concerning courteous behavior and/or Aikido training in general).
Actually, I'm not making characterizations and insults I was only using your own words as if you and others have forgotton that you had used. If you do not like me quoting your own words perhaps you need to re-examine yourself and stop writing things like that. The one sentence I quoted you had previously mentioned was a "generality" and therefore I used "any" instead of "most." Once again, I am only using your wording. Thus, you yourself, just caught on to the danger of generalization. Although, I'm not surprised that you see it me and not yourself.

On this board and on this thread you have generalized about those who do not meet your standards of serious training. How do you know that I DON'T train seriously. You DON'T. You just jump to the conclusion that because I'm defending another point of view as equally valid that you assume that I am a hobbiest.

Quote:
If you could be self-honest and hold integrity, you would not have to change my word "most" to your word "any" - nor would you forget that it was Paige that called herself a hobbyist. You'd also be able to see that I said exactly what you said concerning training at "the level of leaves."
If you could be self-honest and hold integrity, you would not put words into peoples mouths, which you have done in this thread and in other threads as well. If you go back and re-read my rephrasing of Ledyard Sensei's tree analogy, you'll see that I said you are making the same point as he but you throw in loads of condescention along with it. The difference is your attitude. If you were as self-honest and hold integrity as you so claim, you would realize this.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:00 AM   #70
giriasis
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Re: Am i missing something??

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I'd have to agree with David. A hobby is superficial. BUT, what you are saying isn't the same. You state that a hobbiest is superficial. That isn't what I took David as saying.
Mark, I suggest you re-read this passage by David.

Quote:
The fact is that very very few hobbyists ever really speak AND think like they are totally fine with being a hobbyist. Usually they just speak like they are fine. Deep down most are festering in insecurity regarding the superficiality they cannot seem to move beyond. This is even more the case when one is dealing with practices, like Budo or Aikido, that ideally are not supposed to operate at the hobby level. I cannot bless a practice that has someone training at a hobby level and expects everything to be his or hers just the same, like they are training seriously (i.e. expecting hobby-level interest to not inevitably wax and wane). If you are looking for a blessing here on hobby Aikido, you will just have to keep offering insults and/or acting like you are above it all -- I guess. Serious practitioners, like the others here that have also moved beyond your personal crisis concerning the topic of the thread, are never going to give blessings to such ignorance concerning what one can and/or should expect from the various levels of training.
Emphasis Added.

He used the word "superficiality," not me. I'm just reminded him of his previous statements. I do no see how people can not find comments like this as someone trying to raise himself up while bringing others down.

Anne Marie Giri
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:15 AM   #71
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Am i missing something??

Well, it's obvious to me that the context for superficiality is the practice of aikido as a hobby.

It's also obvious to me that just because one practices aikido as a hobby, and perhaps is superficial in that regard, they could just as well practice something else (many other things) and not be superficial in another way. It might not even be a 'practice' as such...there are many types of commitment to many different things that can bring about growth.

I don't see comments like this as someone trying to raise himself or bring others down because I am willing to look at the words on the page and not change them to suit my own ego. It has been admitted here that words in a quote were changed...but somehow that is ok because of the 'assumed' context...double speak. Big Sis is here.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:20 AM   #72
aikigirl10
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Re: Am i missing something??

I really don't want to get back into this argument.

But, i will say this -- (to no one in particular):

I take my aikido training very seriously. However, my life does not revolve around Aikido and it's teachings. I do wish to improve my training, and i do wish to (at some point) go back to class and hopefully one day be able to teach aikido.

Now, based on the statements above ^^ you can label me however you want. I don't care. If a hobbyist can be a serious practitioner then fine, i'm a hobbyist. However, i don't consider myself superficial at all.

Thats my view on Aikido, now there shouldn't be any argument at all about whether or not i am serious, because i just told you that i am. And there also shouldn't be any argument about whether or not i'm a hobbyist because i just told you that you can label me whatever you like based on my views expressed above.

Thanks
*Paige*
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:26 AM   #73
aikigirl10
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Paige Frazier wrote:
However, i don't consider myself superficial at all.
Maybe i should explain this sentence a little better as well.

When i say i'm not superficial, what i mean is i don't train in Aikido in an on-the-surface manner. I read books by Ueshiba and i have also studied the various principles and meditations etc, etc.

However, i don't base my life around this.

hope this clears things up
*Paige*
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:29 AM   #74
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Am i missing something??

Paige, it's not a matter of someone else labeling you. It is a matter of our actions, decisions, and choices labeling us. We do that ourselves. I also don't necessarily believe that it is a matter of our life revolving around aikido. While it may well be an undercurrent through out all our endevours, at least my own teacher believes in balance. To do aikido to the neglect of anything else necessary in our lives would be un-balanced.

Personally, if I am looking for a teacher in budo, I am not looking for a hobbyest. And that doesn't mean that they earn their living from teaching budo.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:29 AM   #75
giriasis
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Re: Am i missing something??

I don't see why people can not see that some can take a hobby seriously. Just some folks don't get it. I just have the problems with the judgments and degrading of others. I'll let this dead horse alone.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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