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Old 04-05-2006, 09:15 PM   #1
dan guthrie
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Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

My girlfriend says she saw some people on morning teevee using wooden and maybe steel "Samurai" swords as a way to get in shape.
Has anyone else heard of or seen this? and, if so, should there be a bounty on these people?

"Miyamoto Musashi's ten-cut workout."
"Tamishigiri means 'cut abs' in Japanese."
"Lose weight the Zen way."
"A thousand years of martial excellence reduced to a pathetic attempt to cash in on Kill Bill movies."
"Bored, vain, vacuous morons feel cool and repellent at the same time."
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:35 PM   #2
Mike Collins
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Chan(m?)barra
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:54 PM   #3
Psufencer
 
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

You're right. That does sound perfectly repellent. As someone who's been "playing with swords" all his life...the last thing I want is for it to become cool!!!
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Old 04-05-2006, 10:08 PM   #4
SmilingNage
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

"Swingin with the Swordsys"
Richard Simmons new martial workout???????

Dont make me, make you, grab my wrist.
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Old 04-05-2006, 10:20 PM   #5
giriasis
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

I saw it from clip on the web. I couldn't find it again, but I believe it was on the Today Show. It's called Forza. It was founded by an Italian woman with a background in karate. I didn't catch how long she's trained or which tradition she has her experience in. It was a bit funny watching Katie Couric do their version of shomenuchi, yokomenuchi and tsuki, though.

It wasn't anymore boring or vacant than any other workout like kickboxing, TaeBo, etc. They have their worth as fitness tools and this was clearly designed for fitness reason. It's not pitched to be teaching a "traditional" martial art and it really fits in with the fusion trend among the fitness community. Right now Turbo Kick and Turbo Jam are hugh hits and that has various elements of different martial arts.

Don't knock it until you try it.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 04-05-2006, 10:27 PM   #6
ESimmons
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

The book is called Forza The Samurai Sword Workout: Kick Butt and Get Buff with High-Intensity Sword Fighting Moves. It's the brainchild of Italian Ilaria Montagnani. Her background is in Shorinjiru Karate and Aikijujitsu.

I caught the tail end of the same show. She was demonstrating some basic techniques to a news lady. She looks fit and her technique seems to be solid.
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Old 04-06-2006, 07:39 AM   #7
Dennis Hooker
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Quote:
Aaron Clark wrote:
You're right. That does sound perfectly repellent. As someone who's been "playing with swords" all his life...the last thing I want is for it to become cool!!!

But Aaron think of the money to be made!! Fast cars, swimming pools, a whole gaggle of little blue-eyed, blond haired Clark'ets tagging along to talk about the color of technique and the simply groovy abs they get from swinging that stick thing.


By the way I heard a rumor that Chuck Clark Sensei has been kidnapped and replaced by a younger thinner version more attuned to the Sergeant Clark USMC . If this is true you tell them dastardly villains we want the Popa Smurf version back.

Dennis Hooker: (DVD) Zanshin and Ma-ai in Aikido
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Old 04-06-2006, 08:57 AM   #8
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Dennis, the fellow you're responding to here isn't the same Aaron Clark you know. Same name and most likely a fine fellow. My Aaron is living north of Seattle now working at the University of Washington and training with Relnick Sensei as well as teaching Jiyushinkai Aikibudo. I miss him.

Chuck Clark
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Old 04-06-2006, 09:22 AM   #9
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
But Aaron think of the money to be made!! Fast cars, swimming pools, a whole gaggle of little blue-eyed, blond haired Clark'ets tagging along to talk about the color of technique and the simply groovy abs they get from swinging that stick thing.
Will that mean we get to "pimp" our bokken?

Oh, goody! -- Dibs on the orange flame-job! -- And the DeadHead on the tsuka kashira!



Cordially,
Erick Mead
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Old 04-06-2006, 09:53 AM   #10
maynard
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

There's a link to a video of a news story in the article linked to below.

http://www3.whdh.com/features/articl...hcast/BO16892/

Looks cheesy, but if it gets people to exercise and be healthier, they'll be better off.

John
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Old 04-06-2006, 02:36 PM   #11
Derek Gaudet
 
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

The same end could be met by using a stick, or metal pipe. There is no reason to use a traditional training implement of kenjutsu in this way other then to put the idea in someones head "I'm learning sword". If they want to do this join a koryu, or take up Iai, kenjutsu or kendo. Sorry, just not a fan of this...

Kind Regards,
Derek Gaudet
Goshin Aikido
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Old 04-06-2006, 03:09 PM   #12
cguzik
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

www.powerstrike.com
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Old 04-06-2006, 03:52 PM   #13
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Quote:
Chris Guzik wrote:
Here is what it says:
Quote:
"Powerstrike Forza is Samurai Sword Training for the group fitness environment. Based on Kendo and Aikido sword training, this workout will inspire students at any level. The certification includes the day of training and practice, class format and four training videos to help you and your students' progress in the Powerstrike Format."
...
" Incorporating an ancient art form into a present day fitness format, Powerstrike Forza allows exercise enthusiasts of all levels to experience the strength and mysticism of working with swords. Powerstrike Inc. has created a custom weighted fitness sword designed to be used by health and fitness facilities around the world, making Powerstrike Forza accessible to everyone."
All's fair for fun and profit I suppose, but I take issue with anyone representing such a thing as "aikido" sword. I know Morihiro Saito Shihan (MHRIP) would have been appalled.

Mysticism ?!?!?!?!? Ye gods and little ducks!

Her name is Ilaria Montagnani. She claims no rank in aikido (thank God for small favors.) None of the "Master instructors" or trainers claims any aikido training, much less rank.

In the interview noted she says:
Quote:
"Instructor Ilaria Montagnani says, "To be able to control a weapon, to cut and guide it and especially stop the movement, you have to contract the muscle and develop control of your muscle." But Ilaria says that's not the only benefit. She says, "At the same time it's very meditative because you do the same movement over and over again."
So is runnning -- or typing for that matter.

Who taught this woman (if anyone)? Is she affiliated anywhere?

Cordially,
Erick Mead

Last edited by Erick Mead : 04-06-2006 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 04-06-2006, 04:35 PM   #14
Michael O'Brien
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

How about one of her other classes that actually claims self defense benefits?

Powerstrike On Guard

Ever wonder how martial art fighting sequences are choreographed? This latest workout by Ilaria Montagnani will teach you the behind the scenes strikes and routines. Then take them to the next level.

React - Defend - Attack.

This class based on self-defense drills will teach you to kick butt for real.

Harmony does not mean that there are no conflicts,
for the dynamic spiral of existence embraces both extremes.
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Old 04-06-2006, 04:36 PM   #15
Derek Gaudet
 
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Quote:
Forza site wrote:
Powerstrike Forza is Italian for "strength and power." Also known as Samurai Sword Training, the one hour class is a supercharged workout that blends elements of two Japanese sword fighting techniques - Kendo and Aikijujitsu. Ilaria Montagnani combined her ten years of martial arts experience to develop this imaginative format in 1995.
Anyone else notice that they do indeed represent it as Japanese sword training in this description. It's a marketing technique. Hopefully no one thinks they're learning Japanese sword arts from here. We all know that Aikido comes from Kenjutsu, and so does Aikijujutsu, but I didn't really see the Aikijujutsu part of this on the site... I still think they should replace the bokken with a metal pipe, but that's just me...

Kind Regards,
Derek Gaudet
Goshin Aikido
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Old 04-06-2006, 05:28 PM   #16
Psufencer
 
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

You can only imagine people all over the world, in front of their TV's, poking holes in their walls and ceilings trying to do this workout.

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Old 04-06-2006, 06:48 PM   #17
rtist
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

This powerstrike thing is a very scary idea indeed.
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Old 04-06-2006, 06:51 PM   #18
Don_Modesto
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Quote:
...perfectly repellent, etc.
Could be healthy. We sclerotic conservatives might just be jealous, no?

(If not of the techniques, then of the freedom and independence of one actually climbing out of the crab bucket as, say, Ueshiba Morihei did--and none too fond of HIS changes to DR was Takeda.)

Books have been useful, and no less a glam star in the Western canon than Socrates hated 'em.

Music for enjoyment has been decried as a corruption of its intrinsic spiritual intent (Baba Ram Dass).

Pick a development and there'll be covies of critics chomping at it.

So Billy Blanks made a fortune...God bless him and good luck to this woman, too.

Why do martial arts have to be locked into their current purpose?

(Yes, I've read Dave Lowry, nevertheless, change is immutable. It is coming.)

Judging from many outraged posts I've read online ("Aiki Golf?!"), martial arts should first teach someone to defend themselves.

Conveniently, no one has operationalized self-defense--what do we mean when we say it? Ability to fight on the ground? Ability to punch? The meager prudence of staying away from areas where people drink a lot of alcohol?

(See especially Soulend's post #6---http://www.budoseek.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=158521&posted=1#post158521---for an excellent comment on this.)

Empirical evidence suggests that the best self-defense is avoidance, of which confidence plays no small part. So if TaeBo or Forzan or Knitting-Needle-jutsu impart confidence, might they not be doing as good a job in teaching self-defense as other more traditional pursuits?

Don J. Modesto
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Old 04-06-2006, 08:33 PM   #19
giriasis
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

And need I add that a core to self-defense is being physically fit? I know many women who work out to fitness videos and what they do is nothing to laugh at. I think this is promoted as fitness first and well if they learn to hit someone with a stick in the process, then why not? And I know that many of these women realize that if they practice a martial art inspired fitness routine that they are not thinking they are becoming a martial arts expert. They're just having fun doing something martial arts inspired.

The craze right now in the fitness industry is FUSION WORKOUTS. They combine pilates and yoga (Yogalates); yoga and karate (Body Forging and Budokan); kickboxing and aerobics (Tae Bo, Janis Saffel and Guillermo Gomez); kickboxing, capeoria, ballet and aerobics (Turbo Jam); aerobics, traditional calesthentics and someone yelling at you (bootcamp and Navy SEAL workouts); ballet and pilates (The Barre Method); aerobics and latin dance (Zumba) etc. Forza is just the newest of the bunch with Japanese sword and aerobics combined. Don't worry, it will not be the end of traditional martial arts.

Also, if this workout gets someone off their duff and start becoming physically active, then why not? It's not like she's claiming to be a Soke 10th Generation Grandmaster of Forza-Jujitsu Ryu and professing this to be a traditional koryu martial art. It's a fusion between aerobics and sword training put in a framework to develop physical fitness.

Anne Marie Giri
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:10 PM   #20
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote:
Conveniently, no one has operationalized self-defense--what do we mean when we say it?
...
Empirical evidence suggests that the best self-defense is avoidance, of which confidence plays no small part. So if TaeBo or Forzan or Knitting-Needle-jutsu impart confidence, might they not be doing as good a job in teaching self-defense as other more traditional pursuits?
Absolutely true -- which helpfully points out why aikido and other koryu arts are NOT, REPEAT NOT, self-defense. Martial arts are about entering into conflict, not starting it unnecessarily, but not avoiding it either. The child of Mars approaches life and death with the same attitude.

Playing at anything is fun, too, but cap guns and cops and robbers games are not small arms training either. People are disserved to confuse them in this way

Cordially,
Erick Mead
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:49 PM   #21
justinc
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

I'm very much of the same opinion as Anne Marie. Fitness first, and if some people happen to be motivated by the fact that they think they're learning something a little different or mystical, well that's OK with me. I'm an ex gym-junkie so I know how boring workouts 6 days a week can get over many years. This sort of thing is a great motivator because there is always something a little different and you can dream a little more about what you might be doing, compared to pressing the next set of weights. And, who knows, this may well inspire a few more people to come learn about true martial arts.

Justin Couch
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:50 PM   #22
Don_Modesto
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Absolutely true -- which helpfully points out why aikido and other koryu arts are NOT, REPEAT NOT, self-defense.
Not only about it, anyway.

Quote:
Martial arts are about entering into conflict, not starting it unnecessarily, but not avoiding it either. The child of Mars approaches life and death with the same attitude.
Don't understand this, especially "not avoiding it"?!

Quote:
Playing at anything is fun, too, but cap guns and cops and robbers games are not small arms training either.
On the jacket sleeve of Dave Grossman's book Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill, he relates how one pre-teen walked into a classroom and shot a bunch of peers in the head and abdoment with hit rates better than veteran cops never having held a gun in his hand before. His training?

Video games.

Quote:
People are disserved to confuse them in this way
Most people are confused when they begin their martial arts training to start with.

Don J. Modesto
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:21 PM   #23
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote:
Most people are confused when they begin their martial arts training to start with.
Amen. Alleluia. Amen
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Old 04-07-2006, 06:55 AM   #24
Dennis Hooker
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

Hay, HAy, HAY!!! I been swinging a sword for 40 years myself. I even on occasion cut with one of them things. How come I ain't all buffed out like them folks? I must have had the wrong teachers!! I want my money back.

Oh wait I'm old, but I remember now. I do it for different reasons. If one of these folks ever comes into the dojo I am going to have to break them of so many bad habits it may be easer to just send them to baseball camp. They are on their way to swinging a mean Louisville Slugger.

Dennis Hooker: (DVD) Zanshin and Ma-ai in Aikido
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Old 04-07-2006, 01:56 PM   #25
Lyle Bogin
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Re: Is there a new fad "sword exercise?"

I wish I had the marketing connections she has...

Anyway, this will become assimilated in the "Crunch" line of workouts I'm sure....like yoga pedicures, and stripercize, and cooking while you work out.
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